Charismatic Catholicism a Rite?

[murphdog261]

Sorry if this is the wrong spot for this question.

Can anyone tell me what it means to be a Charismatic Catholic?

Two priests have mentioned it as “a RITE of the Catholic Church that worship in a more charismatic way”

What does it mean to be a rite within the Catholic Church?
Is Charismatic Catholicism an example of a rite, in the same way that Eastern Byzantine Catholics are a rite?

                    or

is Charismatic Catholicism a different type of worship in the same Latin rite, in the same way that the Tridentine mass and the Novus Ordo mass are in the same Latin rite?

Thanks,

Murph

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Sorry if this is the wrong spot for this question.

Can anyone tell me what it means to be a Charismatic Catholic?

Two priests have mentioned it as “a RITE of the Catholic Church that worship in a more charismatic way”

What does it mean to be a rite within the Catholic Church?
Is Charismatic Catholicism an example of a rite, in the same way that Eastern Byzantine Catholics are a rite?

or

is Charismatic Catholicism a different type of worship in the same Latin rite, in the same way that the Tridentine mass and the Novus Ordo mass are in the same Latin rite?

Thanks,

Murph

I think you mean right not rite. It is a particular form of expression of the Catholic Faith.

 

[randomguy0187]

hmm…I’m not exactly clear on what the definition of a rite is either in this context.

I can however tell you from some experiences that the Novus Ordo is the mass that Charismatics celebrate, just with different (more contemporary) music, and people speaking in “tongues” at certain points (quotations are used because I’m not familiar with enough languages to determine whether or not people are actually speaking in tongues. ). I’ve been to a few masses with my parents; they like it, though personally I’m indifferent to stylistic differences. As long as I am able to receive the Eucharist, I’m happy.

 

[drafdog]

Charismatic Renewal is a style of spirituality. It is not a rite.

Matthew

 

[John_Lilburne]

I search google.com for “Charismatic renewal liturgy” and found “Planning a Charismatic Mass” by Bishop Joe Grech at ccr.org.au/mass.html .

Some of the things he encouraged:
“Prayers of the Faithful: This can be a time of praying for people for healing or other needs. Invite people to come forward for prayer, or encourage people to pray for one another briefly. Alternatively, the priest can minister in prayer to the whole group simultaneously.”
“Consecration: As the body and blood is raised at the consecration, people can be encouraged to give spontaneous exclamations of worship, praise and thanksgiving. The Acclamation can be a joyful time of praise, and ‘Singing in the Spirit.’”

So a senior levels, expressed quite formally, there are approaches encouraged that are not following the liturgical books.

 

[benedictgal]

I search google.com for “Charismatic renewal liturgy” and found “Planning a Charismatic Mass” by Bishop Joe Grech at ccr.org.au/mass.html .

Some of the things he encouraged:
“Prayers of the Faithful: This can be a time of praying for people for healing or other needs. Invite people to come forward for prayer, or encourage people to pray for one another briefly. Alternatively, the priest can minister in prayer to the whole group simultaneously.”
“Consecration: As the body and blood is raised at the consecration, people can be encouraged to give spontaneous exclamations of worship, praise and thanksgiving. The Acclamation can be a joyful time of praise, and ‘Singing in the Spirit.’”

So a senior levels, expressed quite formally, there are approaches encouraged that are not following the liturgical books.

This is an abuse because no one has the authority to add or subtract anything to or from the rubrics and norms of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. Per Redemptionis Sacramentum:

11.] The Mystery of the Eucharist “is too great for anyone to permit himself to treat it according to his own whim, so that its sacredness and its universal ordering would be obscured”.27 On the contrary, anyone who acts thus by giving free rein to his own inclinations, even if he is a Priest, injures the substantial unity of the Roman Rite, which ought to be vigorously preserved,28 and becomes responsible for actions that are in no way consistent with the hunger and thirst for the living God that is experienced by the people today. Nor do such actions serve authentic pastoral care or proper liturgical renewal; instead, they deprive Christ’s faithful of their patrimony and their heritage. ***For arbitrary actions are not conducive to true renewal,29 but are detrimental to the right of Christ’s faithful to a liturgical celebration that is an expression of the Church’s life in accordance with her tradition and discipline. In the end, they introduce elements of distortion and disharmony into the very celebration of the Eucharist, which is oriented in its own lofty way and by its very nature to signifying and wondrously bringing about the communion of divine life and the unity of the People of God.30 ***The result is uncertainty in matters of doctrine, perplexity and scandal on the part of the People of God, and, almost as a necessary consequence, vigorous opposition, all of which greatly confuse and sadden many of Christ’s faithful in this age of ours when Christian life is often particularly difficult on account of the inroads of “secularization” as well.31

Furthermore, Redemptionis has this to say regarding the Eucharistic Prayer:

53.] While the Priest proclaims the Eucharistic Prayer “there should be no other prayers or singing, and the organ or other musical instruments should be silent”,132 except for the people’s acclamations that have been duly approved, as described below.

[54.] The people, however, are always involved actively and never merely passively: for they "silently join themselves with the Priest in faith, as well as in their interventions during the course of the Eucharistic Prayer as prescribed, namely in the responses in the Preface dialogue, the Sanctus, the acclamation after the consecration and the “Amen” after the final doxology, and in other acclamations approved by the Conference of Bishops with the recognitio of the Holy See".133

Now, the Charismatic Movement is an ecclesial movement within the Church, just like the Neocatechumenal Way and the Cursillo Movement, it is still bound by the norms of the Church. Remember that the NeoCats got into some serious trouble with Pope Benedict XVI over their aberrations to the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

Now, there are several Rites within the Catholic Church. We belong to the Latin Rite, but there are others such as the Maronite and the Byzantine Rite (that I am aware of–I’m no expert on the Eastern Churches and have learned quite a bit from this forum), but they make up part of the Church because they are in communion with the Holy Father. These are not movements; they are Rites.

 

[randomguy0187]

I search google.com for “Charismatic renewal liturgy” and found “Planning a Charismatic Mass” by Bishop Joe Grech at ccr.org.au/mass.html .

Some of the things he encouraged:
“Prayers of the Faithful: This can be a time of praying for people for healing or other needs. Invite people to come forward for prayer, or encourage people to pray for one another briefly. Alternatively, the priest can minister in prayer to the whole group simultaneously.”
“Consecration: As the body and blood is raised at the consecration, people can be encouraged to give spontaneous exclamations of worship, praise and thanksgiving. The Acclamation can be a joyful time of praise, and ‘Singing in the Spirit.’”

So a senior levels, expressed quite formally, there are approaches encouraged that are not following the liturgical books.

hmmm, interesting. Well, speaking more on the events I personally have been to, put on by the Southern California Renewal Communities (SCRC), nothing like that happened during the prayers of the faithful, and at consecration, some people did it (“it” took the form of speaking/whispering in “tongues” for a brief moment, nothing like singing or anything especially loud) but it’s not like the priest or someone else was encouraging or telling us we should do it. Perhaps there is variation among different Charismatic communities, just as there is within dioceses as far as following the rubrics of the Novus Ordo? :ehh:

 

[Lux_et_Tenebrae]

Hi,
There are a number of approved movements within the Catholic Church, which focus on a certain aspect of spirituality.

From An Address at II World Congress of Ecclesial Movements clmresources.com/content/view/104/9/

More than 300 delegates from 80 movements and new communities approved by the Apostolic See, as well as Cardinals and Bishops members of the Pontifical Council for the Laity, attended the congress, during which L.F. Figari was asked to reflect about the theme “The Beauty and Joy of Being a Christian in the Education of Today’s Youth”. In his speech he made a succinct presentation on the education of the youth in the faith “as a response to their more profound needs, daily worries, existential dilemmas and horizons” from the “light of the truth, the goodness and beauty that Jesus awakens in those who learn to respond to His call and open themselves to the dynamism of his love and reconciliation”.

I can’t remember all of them. Some are Opus Dei, Cursilio, etc

CCR (Catholic Charismatic Renewal) is a movement within the Catholic Church. Worship services are characterized by a high energy Mass, and more concentration on the gifts of the Spirit.

It is approved by the Catholic Church and strongly supported by both popes JP II and Benedict . The preacher to the papal household under both popes (Fr Cantalamessa) is very involved in this movement.

Lux

 

[benedictgal]

Hi,
There are a number of approved movements within the Catholic Church, which focus on a certain aspect of spirituality.

From An Address at II World Congress of Ecclesial Movements clmresources.com/content/view/104/9/

I can’t remember all of them. Some are Opus Dei, Cursilio, etc

CCR (Catholic Charismatic Renewal) is a movement within the Catholic Church. Worship services are characterized by a high energy Mass, and more concentration on the gifts of the Spirit.

It is approved by the Catholic Church and strongly supported by both popes JP II and Benedict . The preacher to the papal household under both popes (Fr Cantalamessa) is very involved in this movement.

Lux

Nobody is disputing the fact that the Charismatic moveement is legit. While they are approved by the Church, whatever liturgical abuses that go on certainly are not. Just look at what the Neocatechumenal did. They said that they had the full support of JP II, including the strange stuff that went on in their Masses. However, when Pope Benedict looked into the matter, he gave them two years to clean up their liturgical act (the two years expired last December).

So, just because an ecclesial movement has the approval of the Church, that doesn’t mean that they can tinker with the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

 

[Lux_et_Tenebrae]

I agree.

My response is to say that CCR is a legitimate movement of the Catholic Church, which many do not know.

Many of the options chosen in Charismatic style worship are not abuses, but legitimate options. People should try to attend Masses celebrated in the style they prefer.

Lux

 

[benedictgal]

I agree.

My response is to say that CCR is a legitimate movement of the Catholic Church, which many do not know.

Many of the options chosen in Charismatic style worship are not abuses, but legitimate options. People should try to attend Masses celebrated in the style they prefer.

Lux

But, if you read what John Liburne posted, you will note that there are some serious concerns. The Mass is not some do-it-yourself experimentation in creativity. The only flexibility that the Church allows is when it comes to choosing the texts for the propers and the readings from approved sources. The music should be in line with what is appropriate for the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

What I have seen from the Charismatic-style Mass doesn’t fall under what the Church requires. The Mass is not about style. It is the Church’s highest form of worship. The rubrics need to be respected. Unfortunately, quite a few of the Charismatic communities don’t seem to do that and have fallen under the same spell of the supposed “spirit” of Vatican II that the NeoCatechumens are facing.

The legitimacy of the movement is not the problem. The manner in which the Mass is celebrated is.

 

[Lux_et_Tenebrae]

What I have seen from the Charismatic-style Mass doesn’t fall under what the Church requires

And what I have seen does.

As I said, the preacher to the papal household prefers Charismatic style worship. Do not judge an entire movement on a small sampling of what you have seen.

Lux

 

[Lux_et_Tenebrae]

Sorry if this is the wrong spot for this question.

Can anyone tell me what it means to be a Charismatic Catholic?

Two priests have mentioned it as “a RITE of the Catholic Church that worship in a more charismatic way”

What does it mean to be a rite within the Catholic Church?
Is Charismatic Catholicism an example of a rite, in the same way that Eastern Byzantine Catholics are a rite?

                    or

is Charismatic Catholicism a different type of worship in the same Latin rite, in the same way that the Tridentine mass and the Novus Ordo mass are in the same Latin rite?

Thanks,

Murph

Also I was responding to the original question. CCR is a movement within the Latin rite, not a separate “rite”