Charismatic Catholics.

[Philthy]

Hi DarkMark and CM -

A couple a things boys:

A clear distinction needs to be made between how these gifts manifest during a Mass, and how they manifest during a group prayer service. DarkMark didnt say he necessarily wanted to disturb anyone during Mass per se, he simply inquired as to whether his gifts of the HS were welcome in the Catholic Church. The answer to his question, is “Absolutely, welcome!”
This much being said, it is probably within the context of a group charismatic prayer meeting that, say, speaking in tongues will manifest itself. Mass is such a unified form of prayer that it tends to discourage significant discernable individual expression while retaining a deeply personal involvement for each participant. While I have never heard anyone speak in tongues during Mass, it wouldn’t surprise me nor disturb me if some had (quietly) - I often speak to Jesus sub-audibly as I am moved to do so. With respect to the concerns CM expressed regarding the moment of consecration, I understand completely. I generally find myself silenced and wishing I could basically get down on the floor and bow - face down - to our Lord. I have every confidence that most converts to the faith (Im not!) will have a greater reverence for Mass having often experienced a difficult journey becoming Catholic. I participate in the Life in the Spirit seminars, which is part of the charimatic renewal movement. We meet weekly in a small group format - 25-40 people - to praise and worship together. We sing and often offer spontaneous prayer after each hymn and people sometimes speak in tongues (I dont have that gift :crying: ). It is not disturbing at all in this context. To the contrary, I find it helps me focus my prayer and adoration. It is another avenue of prayer…and is a beautiful gift meant to be shared.

 

[Flame_of_Christ]

Blessings to you Plithy,

That is very wonderful to hear that you are involved in Life in the Spirit seminars and that your prayer group seems to be vibrant. I have really been learning alot about LSS (the seminars) and have been preparing for leading one in the near future. What I have found is that the seminars hold so much power to lead someone to say a Yes to the gifts that Jesus wants to bestow upon us through the Holy Spirit.

It is very disheartening to hear you say that you do not speak in tongues though. I can see how sad you are (by the way your skin is a little yellow). But really though, with St. Paul I must exclaim “I wish that all of you spoke in tongues.” Not only that but I will add that my life really did change much more after receiving that gift. It can do the same for everyone who loves Jesus.

Dear one in Christ, seek the spiritual gifts! The bible says clearly that we should. In fact, on another level, how much should we seek the gifts of God while to world seeks the gifts of the devil. The gifts of God are meant for a purpose.

I hope that I can be a help to you in fidning how God can bless you with many spiritual gifts to build up the Body of Christ.

try this link and be encouraged in the Lord:

presentationministries.com/tapes/tape.asp?pubID=434

You can have this video sent to you for the cost of a donation. There is no set fee, just give what believe that the Lord would like you to give. This video can change your life. Let the Rivers of Living Water flow through you brother in Christ!

 

[m134e5]

About 3 weeks ago, I went to this Healing Seminar for 3 days - each day we had a mass - a regular Catholic Mass - During the consecration, while the priest was holding up the Eucharist, a group of people praying in tongue.

I thought that was a bit disturbing to “Be still” moment.

Besides, nobody understood what this group was saying…and neither did this group.

I do not think the praying in tongues that charismatics do is legitimate. In studying scripture, I understand the gift of tongues to be the ability to speak in languages you do not know (so maybe you wouldn’t even hear yourself speaking it- I don’t know) in situations where those around you do not have a common language.

It is not appropriate to pray out loud- in tongues or otherwise- at the consecration. “Let all mortal flesh keep silence”, as St. Basil (I think) put it.

I encourage the original poster to find good Catholic literature on Catholic spirituality. The Charismatic movement does have a place in the Church…but one should not convert only on the condition that they have access to it.

 

[franny33]

I am a Charismatic Catholic for about 1 1/2 yrs. I’m around 55 and have been a faithful Catholic all my life. I was seriously reading my Bible and needed more. I feel that the Holy Spirit led me to this group. I did a lot of research first to see if it was approved by the Pope, and it was. And I prayed for several weeks before I went to my 1st Healing Mass. It was a very beautiful ceremony, as are all Masses. Noone was jumping up & down. There was all such order as a regular Mass. But I did have a 1st suprise hearing speaking in tongues 2 or 3 different times. I thought it was beautiful praise to God that only He could understand(as I read). Sometimes it even sounds like gibberish.
Yes, one of you is right. Some people fake it. But others really try. And the Lord hears our abba-abba-abba as beautiful melodies carried up to heaven to Him by tiny angels like cherubs. Believe me.
I have been blessed with several of these greater gifts listed in 1Corinthians 12-13-14, but I dont speak in tongues nor interpet.
I belong to a prayer group of about 25. The Holy Spirit is praised with prayer and song and sometimes He gives us back a gift. It is now because I’m a Charismatic Catholic, is that I think of the Holy Spirit through out the day, everyday.
Sincerely, Franny

 

[Steve40]

I’m a second generation Charismatic and Traditionalist Catholic. The important thing is not to be a cafeteria catholic at the same time. A full diet of doctrine and obedience in the Liturgy are a must.

 

[franny33]

I’m a second generation Charismatic and Traditionalist Catholic. The important thing is not to be a cafeteria catholic at the same time. A full diet of doctrine and obedience in the Liturgy are a must.

I agree with you that you must fully honor all aspects of the Catholic doctrine and in the Liturgy of the Mass. I want to tell of myself. I think it was because of the Charismatic Masses, and of regular prayer to the Holy Spirit, I was awakened again to what the Mass is. It was so exciting in the begining, and still is! But a traditional Mass is so beautiful if you know what is happening up there! I am overwhelmed by It. Franny

 

[hildegaard]

…Dear one in Christ, seek the spiritual gifts! The bible says clearly that we should…

St. John of the Cross (and other mystics) advise NOT to SEEK spiritual gifts. He advises, if one gets them, to seek counseling from a spiritiual advisor to help discern there origin, etc. He states that they are good, when real, but there are many negative effects, also- including lack of humility, possible evil spirits, etc.

He also teaches that those SEEKING gifts are usually in for a spiritual thrill, and miss the real meaning of union with God. SEEKING spiritiual gists actually impedes reaching the higher levels of mystical experience because it tends to focus on emotional desires.

Just some thoughts.

 

[latinmass]

We need to distinguish several things here. The Holy Spirit guides all the faithful. The gift of encouragement, teaching, charity are all gifts of the Holy Spirit among others. Gifts of the Holy Spirit such as speaking in tongues, and healing are gifts that stopped after the apostles and disciples. They had these gifts then to start the Church. I am not saying that people are not healed these days, but are there any Bishops, priests, or anyone who heal as St. Peter, or St. Paul did, at will, or just by there shadow? The apostles healed on the spot, whenever they wanted. The Church is established and these type of gifts are not needed anymore. Don’t be misled by these false gifts today. I am not big fan of EWTN, but Fr. Echert on line has more to say of this topic if you wish to look. This was not an issue in the Church until the 1970’s, I wonder why? The Church had lost the gifts for 1,970 years and then found them? Emotion, pride, and the devil are behind this new movement in the Church the last forty years.

 

[Mary_ann_R]

We need to distinguish several things here. The Holy Spirit guides all the faithful. The gift of encouragement, teaching, charity are all gifts of the Holy Spirit among others. Gifts of the Holy Spirit such as speaking in tongues, and healing are gifts that stopped after the apostles and disciples. They had these gifts then to start the Church. I am not saying that people are not healed these days, but are there any Bishops, priests, or anyone who heal as St. Peter, or St. Paul did, at will, or just by there shadow? The apostles healed on the spot, whenever they wanted. The Church is established and these type of gifts are not needed anymore. Don’t be misled by these false gifts today. I am not big fan of EWTN, but Fr. Echert on line has more to say of this topic if you wish to look. This was not an issue in the Church until the 1970’s, I wonder why? The Church had lost the gifts for 1,970 years and then found them? Emotion, pride, and the devil are behind this new movement in the Church the last forty years.

See posts 258 & 259
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=2940448
&posted=1#post2940448

I see it differently. It has to do with love. It comes from the heart. Emotions are fleeting and pride…well we all know where that got Satan, now don’t we? It is not a matter of pride when your heart is set on the Lord and his will. If the gifts come, great and if they don’t, great! So long as we are doing God’s will that is all that matters. We must follow the Magisterium, our church leaders, order, test things…these are what is important when exercising the extraordinary gifts. It isn’t something to boast about, but instead should be approached with prayerful consideration.
There are priests and laypeople who have healing ministries. Fr. Richard McAlear has a wonderful healing ministry. There are others…Linda Schubert, for example.

Just my thoughts on it! There is more that I would like to say, but have to run now.

 

[Flame_of_Christ]

Well I am not a favorite of some people here I guess. I love the gifts of the Holy Spirit! Thank God for 1 Cor 12. If you want to erase this chapter from the bible (and the gifts themselves) then well you just can’t.

Talk about a plan of the devil! He doesn’t want people healed, miralces performed, God praised in heavenly languages and more too!

Well, you might as well tell every saint who have had these gifts that they were under teh influence of Satan.

Why did Paul tell us to seek the spiritual gifts? Because he had them, and he knew of their power to build up the body of Christ.

either that or erase 1 Cor 12. In fact, erase the gifts of most everybody in the book of Acts for that matter! Why did Paul give us this if it is not for the good of the Church?

I think if you don’t beleive in spiritual gifts, then why believe that God wants us all to spread His gospel or wants us all to be holy?

These are new and exciting times to preach in the power of the holy Spirit.

Praise the Lord Jesus our Savior!

 

[Mary_ann_R]

Well I am not a favorite of some people here I guess. I love the gifts of the Holy Spirit! Thank God for 1 Cor 12. If you want to erase this chapter from the bible (and the gifts themselves) then well you just can’t.

Talk about a plan of the devil! He doesn’t want people healed, miralces performed, God praised in heavenly languages and more too!

Flame,
You have every right to love the gifts. I love the gifts, also, and have seen the fruits of the gifts in my life and the lives of those around me. I have found a deeper love for Jesus because of them. I have listened to the witness of many people who have been healed of cancer and other ailments. There is a lot of misunderstanding of the gifts and I believe, fear. I resisted for many years out of ignorance, stubborness and other things. I will never put our Lord in a box again and say that he is this or that way. I believe in his words in the bible and the teachings of the Church. Thanks for your post! It is wonderful that you have such a fire for the Holy Spirit! God Bless you!

For those who don’t know what the Pope/Pope’s have to say about the Charismatic Renewal, Here is a link from a previous post that has information from the Vatican - posts #258 & 259.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=195304&page=18

 

[Eureka007]

Hi, I’m Eureka007, I’m am charismatic, and I know the Holy spirit has gifts for the church, today. I believe all the gifts of the Holy Spirit is in operation today. I’m so happy that the Catholic Church is open to the gifts.
Thank You,
Eureka007.

 

[Flame_of_Christ]

Hi Eureka007,

God bless you. I am glad to hear that you are so open to Him yourself!

would you like to visit a catholic charismatic website when you have some free time? It is at ccc.garg.com

There you will find neither slaves nor greeks, but Jesus Christ is Lord of all.

by the way, everyone is invited!

with His love for you,

your brother Ben

 

[rtconstant]

Well I am not a favorite of some people here I guess. I love the gifts of the Holy Spirit! Thank God for 1 Cor 12. If you want to erase this chapter from the bible (and the gifts themselves) then well you just can’t.

Talk about a plan of the devil! He doesn’t want people healed, miralces performed, God praised in heavenly languages and more too!

Well, you might as well tell every saint who have had these gifts that they were under teh influence of Satan.

Why did Paul tell us to seek the spiritual gifts? Because he had them, and he knew of their power to build up the body of Christ.

either that or erase 1 Cor 12. In fact, erase the gifts of most everybody in the book of Acts for that matter! Why did Paul give us this if it is not for the good of the Church?

I think if you don’t beleive in spiritual gifts, then why believe that God wants us all to spread His gospel or wants us all to be holy?

These are new and exciting times to preach in the power of the holy Spirit.

Praise the Lord Jesus our Savior!

See my thing with this is that the gifts of the Spirit have always been with the Church. Saints and lay Catholic’s prayers have been the mediums for healing and miracles throughout the ages. So what exactly is the jumping around and making random sounds adding? The gifts of the Holy Spirit are old hat for the Church the Charismatic movement however is new. Why is it necessary?

I’m a former protestant and while I’m not necessarily putting Catholic Charismatics in the same boat as the evangelical version. I can attest to the fact that nothing good has come from Azusa Street. The fruits of the Pentecostal movement are con men, dangerous theology and theatrical one upmanship. Since this is the ultimate origin of all Charismatic movements I just find it hard to believe that any of it is of any value.

Again I realize that Catholic Charismatics are much more theologically disciplined than the evangelical equivilent. So I know you guys aren’t going to get into the typical Charismatic pitfalls like prosperity and such and that’s good. I’m not accusing Catholic Charismatics of anything, I’m not even saying that the Holy Spirit isn’t present with you. I just happen to think He would have been there with or with mumbling and rock’n’roll praise music is all.

Edit: In addition I would also like to add that I’m glad that Charismatics are excited by Church and worship and like to take an active roll in things.

 

[Flame_of_Christ]

Thank you brother for seeing some good in us.

Well to try and answer the question you asked:

“The gifts of the Holy Spirit are old hat for the Church the Charismatic movement however is new. Why is it necessary?”

I think the best answer is in the big change that happened in Vatican II. One of the under the surface changes is that Lay people wre being called to bring Christ to the world in ways they had never done so before. We began doing things like teaching and proclaiming Christ in ways the church have never seen.

In fact, this website is a great testimony to that.

So also are the many many lay organizations that have come into being since vatican II.

So if you can accept that, then what follows is also many many more lay people excersizing the gifts fo the Holy Spirit.

Do you beleive in the laying on of hands for healing? Does the church and scripture say that lay people can do this in the power of God? I beleive the answer is yes, and if you would like I could show some reasons for this.

There is alot more to talk about. I know taht there are many questions on tongues and music. But for now,

Would you accept the gift of healing or miracles if God desired to spread those gifts all over the world?

Or should we go back to pre-vatican II and let the Spirit remain inward?

 

[rtconstant]

Thank you brother for seeing some good in us.

Well to try and answer the question you asked:

“The gifts of the Holy Spirit are old hat for the Church the Charismatic movement however is new. Why is it necessary?”

I think the best answer is in the big change that happened in Vatican II. One of the under the surface changes is that Lay people wre being called to bring Christ to the world in ways they had never done so before. We began doing things like teaching and proclaiming Christ in ways the church have never seen.

In fact, this website is a great testimony to that.

So also are the many many lay organizations that have come into being since vatican II.

So if you can accept that, then what follows is also many many more lay people excersizing the gifts fo the Holy Spirit.

Do you beleive in the laying on of hands for healing? Does the church and scripture say that lay people can do this in the power of God? I beleive the answer is yes, and if you would like I could show some reasons for this.

There is alot more to talk about. I know taht there are many questions on tongues and music. But for now,

Would you accept the gift of healing or miracles if God desired to spread those gifts all over the world?

Or should we go back to pre-vatican II and let the Spirit remain inward?

Oh certainly. I think that laying on hands can be very powerful. I also think that relics can have a similar affect. Afterall wasn’t it Elisha who’s bones resurrected a dead man? Saint Paul cured a man by sending a piece of cloth he had touched. So yes the touch of a righteous person can have great affect. Touching isn’t always necessary though. Prayer by itself gets things done.

You wont find me arguing this point. I would ask though haven’t Saints, religious and those with Holy Orders always done this though? I know if I’m sick father will put his hand on head and pray for me and I know it helps. But I don’t think that is a new practice in the Church.

 

[Mary_ann_R]

Hi, I’m Eureka007, I’m am charismatic, and I know the Holy spirit has gifts for the church, today. I believe all the gifts of the Holy Spirit is in operation today. I’m so happy that the Catholic Church is open to the gifts.
Thank You,
Eureka007.

Hi Eureka,

You and about 150 million other Catholics, (at last count) including myself, are happy about it!! :extrahappy: :yup:

 

[Holly3278]

The holy Mass is not a time to be running around the church “in the Spirit”. I honestly do not think that the Holy Spirit would inspire a person to do such a disruptive thing. The holy Mass is to be a solemn and holy time, not a time where people go wild and have some sort of “Holy Spirit party”. As Michael said, the Bible is quite clear that there is to be order in the church. Running around during the Mass is not order!

That said, I do hope that you come home to Rome but please make sure that you get good catechesis and learn that some things are simply not appropriate during Mass. You may want to talk to your priest about this.

Also, remember to discern the spirits. The Holy Spirit is not going to tell anyone to run around during Mass. That would be a spirit of the Devil if you ask me.

 

[Flame_of_Christ]

Dear sister,

I have never ever seen anyone running around during holy Mass as far as I can remember. That is unless people are running towards the Lord (okay maybe walking too fast.)

But seriously, whoever said that this is what charismatic renewal is all about is working for the devil, saying anything they can to keep people away from praying in the Holy Spirit.

Remember! we are not making this stuff up! the past 4 popes have totally supported teh Charismatic renewal! We are following the church and what more do you ask of us? To not follow the church??!?

Now that is a work of satan if there ever was one.

 

[Holly3278]

I personally love the Charismatic Catholic Renewal and am a part of it. I was attending a Charismatic Catholic prayer group until the leader retired causing the group to shut down recently.