Charismatic Episcopal Church - Valid Holy Orders?

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Hi Everyone!

Could anyone tell me if it is true that the RCC has recognized the CEC’s Holy Orders as valid? If so, what does that mean? Is it now permissable for a Catholic to receive at one of their “Masses”?

Thanks in advance for helping me out with this!

God bless,

Jenny
 
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Jennie66:
Hi Everyone!

Could anyone tell me if it is true that the RCC has recognized the CEC’s Holy Orders as valid? If so, what does that mean? Is it now permissable for a Catholic to receive at one of their “Masses”?

Thanks in advance for helping me out with this!

God bless,

Jenny
There is a gentleman who posts here that can answer this for you. I expect he’ll see the question, eventually.

GKC
 
Hi Everyone!

Could anyone tell me if it is true that the RCC has recognized the CEC’s Holy Orders as valid? If so, what does that mean? Is it now permissable for a Catholic to receive at one of their “Masses”?

Thanks in advance for helping me out with this!

God bless,

Jenny
 
They are not incardinated Catholic ministers, and as such, Catholics may not normatively receive the Sacraments from them according to canon law, even if they were validly ordained.

Nevertheless, I’ve not read anything that would indicate their ordinations are considered valid by the Catholic Church.
 
It doesn’t matter if a group has valid Holy Orders or not, as a Catholic, you are supposed to only take communion from a church which is in communion with Rome (i.e. a Catholic Church).

God Bless.
 
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Jennie66:
Could anyone tell me if it is true that the RCC has recognized the CEC’s Holy Orders as valid? If so, what does that mean? Is it now permissable for a Catholic to receive at one of their “Masses”?
Jenny,

Not sure if I’m the person to whom GKC was referring, but I can answer you. For some reason, questions regarding the validity of presbyteral orders in the CEC abound lately. The short answer to your first question is “no”; the second question, therefore, is moot; and the answer to the third question is generally “no”, although Semper Fi’s blanket statement above is incorrect as well.

Let me give you some background on the CEC. The CEC (and its parent body the Int’l Communion of the CEC) was formed in the early 1990s, although it has origins in an evangelical movement that arose about 15 years prior to that. It isn’t entirely clear from whence CEC’s first presbyters derived, i.e., by whom they were ordained and into which ecclesial community - that’s important to keep in mind, since it may have implications for the issue of the validity of the CEC’s orders.

Austin Randolph Adler, who is now the Primate or Patriarch (he has used both titles) of the CEC, was its founding bishop. Prior to becoming such, he pastored Stone Mountain Church, apparently an evangelical - possibly non-denominational - congregation. He was consecrated bishop by Bishop Timothy Barker, then of the Catholic Apostolic Church of Antioch - Malabar Rite (CACA-MR). How Adler came into contact with the CACA-MR is unclear; it is one of several so-called “Spruit-line” Churches - the reference being to Herman Spruit, hierarch of the CACA-MR as well as progenitor of a significant number of other “independent Catholic” and “independent Orthodox” Churches. (The CACA-MR is, by the way, neither Catholic, nor of Antioch, and has no relationship to the Malabarese.)

Subsequently, in the mid-'90s, Adler and Randolph Sly, another CEC bishop, apparently became concerned about the validity of the episcopal lineage conferred by Barker (a not totally-unfounded concerm) and sought additional episcopal consecration from William Millsaps, Presiding Bishop of the Episcopal Missionary Church (EMC). The EMC was originally a diocese within the Episcopal Church of the USA (ECUSA) but broke with its parent in 1992 (about the same time that the CEC came into being) over issues of theology and practice within the Episcopal Communion.

In 1997, Archbishops Adler, Sly, and 3 other CEC hierarchs were re-consecrated (sub conditione, I believe) by bishops of Igreja Catolica Apostolica Brasileira (ICAB) - the Catholic Apostolic Church of Brazil. Shortly thereafter, those newly re-consecrated laid hands on most of the remaining CEC hierarchs. The ICAB has its episcopal origins from the so-called “Duarte-Costa line”, which originated in the mid-20th century when Carlos Duarte-Costa, then a Latin Catholic bishop, resigned his titular episcopacy and broke with Rome to found the schismatic ICAB.

The late Bishop Duarte-Costa, together with his immediate episcopal descendents, have been a prolific source of episcopal orders, not only in the Western Hemisphere, but throughout the world - resulting in an abundance of “independent Catholic” Churches and other ecclesial bodies that, arguably, have claim to Apostolic Succession, valid orders, and valid sacraments.

The CEC, as a consequence of the consecration afforded to their hierarchs by the Duarte-Costa connection, also falls into that murky realm of an arguable claim to validity, because of the Augustinian theory to which the Catholic Church subscribes in determining the validity of Orders. In brief, under the Augustinian theory (which I explained in detail in a post on this forum about a year ago), a bishop with valid episcopal orders continues to have and validly exercise those orders (though he does so illicitly), despite his estrangement from the Church, provided that proper form, matter, and intent are present.

(continued)
 
To definitively (as opposed to arguably) establish validity requires a detailed study of the episcopal genealogy of the one who claims to be a bishop and Rome has made no definitive statement with respect to the validity of the Duarte-Costa lines as a whole, nor is it likely to do so.

Typically, absent circumstances necessitating it (such as the request a few years ago by the USCCB for clarification as to Apostolic Succession and validity of orders and sacraments in the US-based Polish National Catholic Church), Rome usually declines comment, believing (rightly) that affirming or disavowing validity encourages others in their pursuit of a “magic touch” and proliferates these quasi-Catholic ecclesia. Rome has implicitly acknowledged validity in the instance of some individual hierarchs with Duarte-Costa lines (e.g., Bishop Salomão Barbosa Ferraz, of blessed memory), but any conclusion as to the validity of others, particularly lines that are derivitive or significantly removed in time from Bishop Duarte-Costa himself (as is the case here), would be speculative at best, presumptuous at worst.

(I should acknowledge here that the CACA-MR, from which the CEC originally claimed succession, itself has some arguable claims to validity given that the multiple episcopal lines from which it derived included at least a few hierarchs who, again arguably, had valid episcopal orders themselves or in their lineage. However, over time, the CACA-MR has sufficiently departed in praxis from Catholicism as to make it increasingly unlikely that the validity of its orders has been maintained.)

An additional concern vis-a-vis the CEC hierarchy is whether or not its bishops had valid presbyteral orders prior to their elevation to the episcopacy. Within the Anglican and Episcopal Churches, presbyteral orders have generally not been deemed valid by the Catholic Church, although an element of uncertainty was introduced and the waters were somewhat muddied in the twentieth century by the participation of Old Catholic hierarchy in some Anglican and Episcopal ordinations. However, it should be noted that the CEC, its name notwithstanding, did not originate in the Episcopal Church.

As I remarked in the beginning of my post, by whom those who became the CEC’s bishops were ordained and into which ecclesial community could be factors in the validity of subsequent episcopal ordinations. That is not to say that it is an issue which couldn’t have been cured, if a bishop with valid, though illicit, faculties ordained them to the priesthood prior to consecrating them as bishops. From publically available information, it can’t be determined one way or the other whether that happened in this instance.

The CEC is a small but viable ecclesial body, with about 1000 congregations scattered across 40 of the 50 states, Puerto Rico, 3 Canadian provinces, and some 12-15 foreign countries. It claims about 200,000 communicants, last I checked, a number that is probably a bit high - but in the neighborhood. The Church’s theology, praxis, organization, and functioning is sufficiently mainstream to keep it out of the realm of being classed as an ecclesia vagante.

In sum, the CEC may have achieved valid Apostolic Succession and all that comes with that, but it cannot be stated with any certainty, absent a detailed study of all the lineages involved.

The CEC does not fall within the provisions of Canon 844 § 2 of the Code of Canon Law. So that, even in instances of grave necessity, Catholics may not lawfully approach CEC clergy to receive the Sacraments of Penance, the Eucharist, or Anointing of the Sick.

In §3 of that Canon, reference is made to “members of other Churches which the Apostolic See judges to be in the same position as the aforesaid Eastern Churches so far as the Sacraments are concerned.” At present, the sole other Church formally judged “to be in the same position” as the Orthodox Churches “so far as the Sacraments are concerned” is the Polish National Catholic Church (and only its US jurisdictions). (That Catholics may receive those Sacraments under limited circumstances from PNCC or Orthodox clergy - although the latter would refuse the request - was the reason that I said Semper Fi’s blanket “no” was incorrect.)

Finally, the Charismatic Episcopal Church (CEC) should not to be confused with the Charismatic Catholic Church (CCC), which presents its own set of problems as to validity, etc.

Many years,

Neil
 
Semper Fi:
It doesn’t matter if a group has valid Holy Orders or not, as a Catholic, you are supposed to only take communion from a church which is in communion with Rome (i.e. a Catholic Church).

God Bless.
399 The Eastern churches that are not in full communion with the Catholic Church celebrate the Eucharist with great love. “These Churches, although separated from us, yet possess true sacraments, above all - by apostolic succession - the priesthood and the Eucharist, whereby they are still joined to us in closest intimacy.” A certain communion in sacris, and so in the Eucharist, “given suitable circumstances and the approval of Church authority, is not merely possible but is encouraged.”

scborromeo.org/ccc/para/1399.htm
 
Thank you everyone - especially Neil, for your very detailed response - for helping me with this question!

God bless you all!

Jenny
 
Neil,

Thanks for providing such a detailed background history to the CEC. However, I am going to have to disagree with your conclusions based on it.

You forgot one aspect: The church presumes ALL SACRAMENTS VALID unless it is proven otherwise. Due to the history you have provided, the church sees that the CEC has a strong claim to valid apostolic succession, albeith illicit. Being that the church has not investigated and found the ordinations invalid, we the faithful can then consider the holy orders valid, until further notice.

As you stated, a validly ordained bishop can grant episcopal ordination, so long as form (there is no reason to believe the ordinations were done incorrectly) and intent (obviously, an ordination was intended.) are present. Therefore we must presume the CEC has valid ordinations.

Concerning recieving communion, other sacrametns, the answer is still a no for Catholics. Canon Law says:
Whenever necessity requires or a genuine spiritual advantage commends it, and provided the danger of error or indifferentism is avoided, Christ’s faithful for whom it is physically or morally impossible to approach a catholic minister, may lawfully receive the sacraments of penance, the Eucharist and anointing of the sick from non-Catholic ministers in whose Churches these sacraments are valid.
(844 B2)
In short: Catholics can only recieve valid sacraments from non-Catholic ministers when two conditions are met: 1. There is great need and 2. No Catholic ministers are present.

Because the CEC is small, you’re not going to find an area where a CEC minister is available that a Catholic one is not. Therefore, no sacraments allowed.
There is a gentleman who posts here that can answer this for you. I expect he’ll see the question, eventually.
…Now I’m really curioius who you are referring to.
 
threej_lc,

“…Now I’m really curioius who you are referring to…”

It might well have been Irish Melkite, if I had thought of him (hello, Neil), since I have seen him do a superb job on similar questions before and he did it again, here.

I had in mind another poster who has some particular insight into the CEC and their orders, and who may or may not see/reply to this thread, I guess. If he does, he will reveal himself.

GKC

Anglicanus Catholicus
 
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threej_lc:
You forgot one aspect: The church presumes ALL SACRAMENTS VALID unless it is proven otherwise.
Threej,

I am baffled as to your conclusion that the Church presumes all Sacraments to be valid unless it is proven otherwise. In fact, Sacraments confected and administered in Churches, other than those to which the Church has accorded recognition of Apostolic Succession and the validity of presbyteral orders, are presumed, prima facie, to lack validity and licity.
Due to the history you have provided, the church sees that the CEC has a strong claim to valid apostolic succession, albeith illicit. Being that the church has not investigated and found the ordinations invalid, we the faithful can then consider the holy orders valid, until further notice.
The Church “sees” no such thing, having made no finding as to such. And the rationale by which you would presume that the faithful have a right to determine the validity of orders in a Church to be valid as a consequence of Rome’s failure to investigate and publicly assert its findings is totally lost on me.

I am a long-time serious student of the various independent “Catholic” and “Orthodox” Churches and not infrequently acknowledged as somewhat expert on the subject. As such, I am more than sufficiently familiar with most such bodies (including some incredibly obscure groups) to make a very informed opinion as to the likelihood that their orders are or are not valid, based on their episcopal lineage and what it means vis-a-vis Apostolic Succession. I would not, however, undertake to state a positive, definitive opinion as to the Sacraments, Orders, or Apostolic Succession of any such (there are some regarding which I would not hesitate to authoritatively state my opinion that they are lacking in validity) and I reject entirely your assertion that you or any member of the laity (or even most clergy) has the right to form and act on a personal opinion that validity exists in any such ecclesial entity.
As you stated, a validly ordained bishop can grant episcopal ordination, so long as form (there is no reason to believe the ordinations were done incorrectly) and intent (obviously, an ordination was intended.) are present. Therefore we must presume the CEC has valid ordinations.
We must presume nothing of the sort. The validity of the episcopal status of hierarchs is not established per se by descent from the Duarte-Costa line and, in fact, can only be asserted on an individual basis - as the validity of episcopal orders of any singular hierarch is dependent, in part, on the validity of the orders of his immediately preceding episcopal forbearer. And the question as to whether form was preserved is not presumed, but also requires evidence that it was.
In short: Catholics can only recieve valid sacraments from non-Catholic ministers when two conditions are met: 1. There is great need and 2. No Catholic ministers are present.
Because the CEC is small, you’re not going to find an area where a CEC minister is available that a Catholic one is not. Therefore, no sacraments allowed.
Even here, your conclusion is erroneous. The fact that the CEC is small and it is unlikely that its ministers will be present in any place where a Catholic minister is not has no relevance. Canon 844, § 2 (there is no B2, such as you reference) allows reception of Sacraments in limited circumstances such as you describe only “from non-catholic ministers in whose Churches these sacraments are valid.” Absent validity being accorded by Rome to the Sacraments of the CEC, their ministers fail the test of being a legitimate source from whom a Catholic may receive the sacraments, even if the other conditions were met.

The Church is not a democracy; the faithful do not have license to determine validity or licity, and particularly not as a consequence of the Church’s refusal or declination to do so.
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GKC:
It might well have been Irish Melkite, if I had thought of him (hello, Neil), since I have seen him do a superb job on similar questions before and he did it again, here.
Hello, GKC,

Thank you for the kind words 🙂

Many years,

Neil
 
Irish Melkite,

You are very welcome. And thanks for the further explication.

As an outsider and Anglican, I hope I’m not intruding, but I must asy that the point you discuss above raised my eyebrows, too. Is it possible (three_jl?) that what was beng referred to was the point that given the use of demonstrably correct externals (form, matter, minister) the RCC does not judge the internal validity in a sacrament (as stated in Apostolicae Curae) but assumes *faciendi quod facit ecclesia *?

Or is this unrelated?

GKC
 
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GKC:
threej_lc,

“…Now I’m really curioius who you are referring to…”

It might well have been Irish Melkite, if I had thought of him (hello, Neil), since I have seen him do a superb job on similar questions before and he did it again, here.

I had in mind another poster who has some particular insight into the CEC and their orders, and who may or may not see/reply to this thread, I guess. If he does, he will reveal himself.

GKC

Anglicanus Catholicus
Ah, my good friend . . . you couldn’t possibly be referring to ME could you?

I greatly appreciate Irish Melkite’s excellent posts on this subject.

As a former priest (and Canon Theologian) for the CEC who has converted to the Catholic Church, I might have a couple of points to add.
  1. At the present time, no formal decision has been made by Rome on the validity of CEC orders. Emphasis on the word “formal”.
  2. With regard to Catholics communicating in CEC churches and CEC Christians communicating Catholic churches: again, nothing “formal”. I am personally aware of limited situations (on both sides) in which episcopal permission has been given.
  3. With regard to the original “consecrators” of the CEC: it is safe to say that in all probability, the consecrations were invalid. “Bishop” Barker and his co-consecrator derived their line of succession from Herman Spruit and his “Church of Antioch”. His “Church of Antioch” is listed in the Melton encyclopedia as an occult religion. The CEC was referred to Barker by a former Anglican Catholic Church priest, and were deceived as to the nature of Barker, Spruit, etc. There was a subsequent “sub-conditione” consecration by Bishop Millsaps, then of the EMC.
  4. There were GRAVE concerns about the legitimacy of CEC orders following the discovery of the history of Barker and Spruit. I was one of the clerics who did much of the discovery.
  5. In November of 1997, three bishops from the Igreja Catolica Apostolica Brasileira traveled to the United States and consecrated five CEC bishops, using the Roman rite. These five then re-consecrated their brethren – and conditionally re-ordained the rest of the clergy in the denomination. Further, the CEC altered its own ordinal to conform to the Roman ordinal.
  6. The Igreja Catolica Apostolica Brasileria is a relatively recent schismatic group dating back to the 1940’s. The reasons for the schism were mostly political. Their orders are valid, but illicit. Pope John Paul II was eager to see this schism healed and had met, at least once, with their leadership.
  7. While it is quite true that dozens, if not hundreds of tiny splinter groups abound, claiming legitimate orders from the Igreja Catolica Apostolica Brasileria, most of these claims are dubious, at best – many times removed from the actual Brazilian hierarchy itself. The CEC, on the other hand, received their orders directly at the hands of the three highest-ranking bishops.
An excellent, if not fully complete, website discussing this can be found here:

tboyle.net/Catholicism/Costa_Consecrations.html

I can state with a certain assurance that many Catholic bishops in the United States are actively exploring the question of legitimacy of orders and the unofficial answers coming back say “quite probably valid”. I know of one former CEC priest who is now a Catholic priest and several others in the process.
 
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GKC:
Is it possible (three_jl?) that what was beng referred to was the point that given the use of demonstrably correct externals (form, matter, minister) the RCC does not judge the internal validity in a sacrament (as stated in Apostolicae Curae) but assumes faciendi quod facit ecclesia?
GKC,

Not sure if this question was addressed to me or threej but I realize in reading it that I made no specific reference to the issue of intent in my reply to him. If I understand your query correctly, you are asking if the Church presumes the intent to do what the Church does if the external requirements are determined to have been satisfied. I would say that, absent credible proof to the contrary, intent to do what the Church does would ordinarily be presumed. However, one must first substantiate the externals as being in conformance to the requirements before intent becomes an operative concern.
David Zampino:
I greatly appreciate Irish Melkite’s excellent posts on this subject.
David,

Thank you also for the kind words and I appreciate the insights that you have contributed. Having noticed your name several times in posts here at CA, I should have guessed that it was you to whom GKC referred.
His “Church of Antioch” is listed in the Melton encyclopedia as an occult religion.
An essentially valid characterization in my opinion. While not quite so entrenched in theosophy and gnosticism as the various Liberal Catholic Churches, Spruit’s own episcopal orders were received from Charles Hampton, a LCC hierarch, and Lowell Wadle (who fashioned the so-called “Wadle Mass”, a cabalistically-based liturgy, for what is now Spruit’s Church of Antioch) was a co-consecrator.

Terry Boyle’s site is, as you note, a great resource albeit, regretably, incomplete.

Many years,

Neil
 
Hello, DZ,
David Zampino:
Ah, my good friend . . . you couldn’t possibly be referring to ME could you?
Ah…**could ** be. And you have demonstrated why.
I greatly appreciate Irish Melkite’s excellent posts on this subject.
Me too.
As a former priest (and Canon Theologian) for the CEC who has converted to the Catholic Church, I might have a couple of points to add.
As I rightly suspected.
  1. At the present time, no formal decision has been made by Rome on the validity of CEC orders. Emphasis on the word “formal”.
  1. With regard to Catholics communicating in CEC churches and CEC Christians communicating Catholic churches: again, nothing “formal”. I am personally aware of limited situations (on both sides) in which episcopal permission has been given.
  1. With regard to the original “consecrators” of the CEC: it is safe to say that in all probability, the consecrations were invalid. “Bishop” Barker and his co-consecrator derived their line of succession from Herman Spruit and his “Church of Antioch”. His “Church of Antioch” is listed in the Melton encyclopedia as an occult religion. The CEC was referred to Barker by a former Anglican Catholic Church priest, and were deceived as to the nature of Barker, Spruit, etc. There was a subsequent “sub-conditione” consecration by Bishop Millsaps, then of the EMC.
  1. There were GRAVE concerns about the legitimacy of CEC orders following the discovery of the history of Barker and Spruit. I was one of the clerics who did much of the discovery.
  1. In November of 1997, three bishops from the Igreja Catolica Apostolica Brasileira traveled to the United States and consecrated five CEC bishops, using the Roman rite. These five then re-consecrated their brethren – and conditionally re-ordained the rest of the clergy in the denomination. Further, the CEC altered its own ordinal to conform to the Roman ordinal.
  1. The Igreja Catolica Apostolica Brasileria is a relatively recent schismatic group dating back to the 1940’s. The reasons for the schism were mostly political. Their orders are valid, but illicit. Pope John Paul II was eager to see this schism healed and had met, at least once, with their leadership.
  1. While it is quite true that dozens, if not hundreds of tiny splinter groups abound, claiming legitimate orders from the Igreja Catolica Apostolica Brasileria, most of these claims are dubious, at best – many times removed from the actual Brazilian hierarchy itself. The CEC, on the other hand, received their orders directly at the hands of the three highest-ranking bishops.
An excellent, if not fully complete, website discussing this can be found here:
I can state with a certain assurance that many Catholic bishops in the United States are actively exploring the question of legitimacy of orders and the unofficial answers coming back say “quite probably valid”. I know of one former CEC priest who is now a Catholic priest and several others in the process.
Great to hear from you. Please drop me a line sometimes. We need to catch up.

GKC
 
Greetings, Irish Melkite,
Irish Melkite:
GKC,

Not sure if this question was addressed to me or threej but I realize in reading it that I made no specific reference to the issue of intent in my reply to him. If I understand your query correctly, you are asking if the Church presumes the intent to do what the Church does if the external requirements are determined to have been satisfied. I would say that, absent credible proof to the contrary, intent to do what the Church does would ordinarily be presumed. However, one must first substantiate the externals as being in conformance to the requirements before intent becomes an operative concern.
It was a general tossup. My understanding, particularly from a study of Apostolicae Curae, was that the RCC indeed assumes the validity of the sacrament, if the externals are judged valid (Apostolicae Curae, sec. 9). What I wondered was whether what three_jl posted might somehow be related to that practice. I doubted it, but was curious. At any rate, I was in great haste, and the post probably showed it. Thank you again. I always learn from your (name removed by moderator)uts.

GKC

*Anglicanus Catholicus *
Thank you also for the kind words and I appreciate the insights that you have contributed. Having noticed your name several times in posts here at CA, I should have guessed that it was you to whom GKC referred.
An essentially valid characterization in my opinion. While not quite so entrenched in theosophy and gnosticism as the various Liberal Catholic Churches, Spruit’s own episcopal orders were received from Charles Hampton, a LCC hierarch, and Lowell Wadle (who fashioned the so-called “Wadle Mass”, a cabalistically-based liturgy, for what is now Spruit’s Church of Antioch) was a co-consecrator.
Terry Boyle’s site is, as you note, a great resource albeit, regretably, incomplete.
Many years,
 
Irish Melkite:
Threej,

I am baffled as to your conclusion that the Church presumes all Sacraments to be valid unless it is proven otherwise. In fact, Sacraments confected and administered in Churches, other than those to which the Church has accorded recognition of Apostolic Succession and the validity of presbyteral orders, are presumed, prima facie, to lack validity and licity.
Thank you for the correction. I know that canon law says in the Church all sacraments are presumed valid. I was incorrectly extrapolating this principle to sacraments administered outside the church.
I reject entirely your assertion that you or any member of the laity (or even most clergy) has the right to form and act on a personal opinion that validity exists in any such ecclesial entity.
We are on a Catholic discussion forum. It exists so we can discuss Church teaching to come to a better understanding of what exactly She is saying to us. If everyone understood everything perfectly, we wouldn’t need this forum. Forgive me if my initial impression was incorrect, I didn’t mean you any personal harm. Neither do I see any attempt to act on a personal opinion, and the only “personal” opinion I applied was a incorrect understanding of what I had thought the church had already stated. Again thankyou for correcting me.
Canon 844, § 2 (there is no B2, such as you reference)
Forgive me. My keyboard doesn’t have the squigly beta character on it. The B was the closest thing. Apparently, I was still successful in communicating exactly what I was referencing.
Absent validity being accorded by Rome to the Sacraments of the CEC, their ministers fail the test of being a legitimate source from whom a Catholic may receive the sacraments, even if the other conditions were met.
Agreed, but this is a bit of a moot point. It responds to a clarification I was making dependent upon the CEC having valid orders. If they don’t, then we don’t even need to discuss this aspect.
The Church is not a democracy; the faithful do not have license to determine validity or licity, and particularly not as a consequence of the Church’s refusal or declination to do so.
Again, I was not trying to make a decision for the church in her absense. I was incorrectly stating what I thought was a decision the church had already made.

Josh
 
Forgive me. My keyboard doesn’t have the squigly beta character on it. The B was the closest thing.
Try holding the ALT key down and typing 0167 on the number pad (not the numbers above the letters).

Enjoy. =) Also useful for German chars: ä (0228), ß (0223), ö (0246), ü (0252) and tons of other more esoteric symbols… 😉
 
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