Charismatic Roman Catholicism

[DebChris]

It is non-Catholics, not the Catholic Church, who do not believe in the reality of miracles after the time of the Apostles. Indeed, those upon whom the Holy Spirit fell during the revivals of the early 20th century were excommunicated, not because what happened was non-Biblical, but because it did not fit with the dogmas of some of these churches.
Those who attended the retreat in Duquesne did not leave the Catholic Church. The events have been investigated and accepted by the Magisterium. Read the book written by the Ranaghans, Catholic Pentecostals.
Again, quoting the Vatican paper Zenit, “the Holy Father underscored the various gifts with which the ecclesial movements and the new communities have enriched the Church, especially since the Second Vatican Council: effective Christian formation, the witness of fidelity and obediennce to the Church, missionary zeal, care for the poor, and a wealth of vocations.”
chnetwork.org/efconv.htm is the testimony of Fr. Ed Fride, a former agnostic

 

[Pani_Rose]

This list of articles was posted on another forum…

Here is an annotated list of the relevant news reports from the ZENIT news agency. Note that these are the English versions. ZENIT also publishes these news reports in several other languages.

Bishops Ask Spirit’s Aid in Understanding Movements – Cardinal Urges Prelates to See Them as Gift, Not Problem Cardinal Stankslaw Rylko explained one of the keys motivating the Pontifical Council for Laity to gather some 100 bishops for a three-day seminar that began on May 15, 2008. (The article left me with the impression that there were 100 bishops and no lay people at this conference.)

Welcoming Attitude Toward Charisms Urged–Benedict XVI Addresses Seminar on Movements The charisms of movements and new ecclesial communities must be welcomed by the Church “with much love” and without “superficial and reductive judgments,” says Benedict XVI. ( Does anyone know what “reductive judgments” are?)

Pastors and Movements: Better Together–Bishops Conclude Congress on New Charisms The lead paragraph says “Bishops and lay movements must work together to find effective answers to the secularization of society, according to the founder of the lay movement Communion and Liberation.” The rest of the article contains single quotes from attendees at this conference.

Other relevant reports – some from last year.

2008-05-18 Pope: Evangelization Is “Urgent and Necessary”–Affirms Missionary Nature of Church

2008-05-18 Hope Makes Us Young at Heart, Says Pope–Urges Youth in Genoa to Choose Christ

2007-02-08 Pontiff Offers Key for New Evangelization–Urges Bishop-Movement Connections

2007-02-23 Pope Lists 2 Rules for Movements to Grow–Respect Charisms, Remember That Church Is One

2007-05-28 Pontiff Urges Bishops to Welcome New Movements – Says Evangelization Is Top Priority

2007-03-02 A Charism of the Word–Interview With the New President of Verbum Dei

ccc.garg.com/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=1432****

 

[una_fides]

Una Fides,
You are doing your utmost to perpetrate your intense detestation of this movement. Every keystroke is laden with your hatred. What an odd way to find joy in life, putting down an approved movement of God.

I do not know where you got the idea that I am communicating hatred. It is the exact opposite.
I am curious as to how you would respond if one sincerely believed something and told others who believed contrary that what they believed was false. Or what if that person actually called those who disagreed with him “hypocrites,” “blind guides,” and a “generation of vipers” “full of filthiness.” If that man were to preach such a message today, no doubt by your standards you would label him a hate-monger. As you likely have figured out, the man who said those things was Jesus Christ. There are abundant other examples in Scripture of the apostles using bold language when preaching the truth. St. John calls any man a liar who does not keep God’s commandments, and St. Paul anathematizes any many who would preach any other gospel contrary to the original gospel he preached.

I never went close to this far in any of my posts, yet you claim I am full of hatred in my writings. I have only shared what I believe to be true and have many times posted direct quotations, which you would likely condemn as hateful as well, since they disagree with your perspective.

There is no defense needed. Period. The movement is approved for Catholics. Period. Rather than harass God’s people, you may need to take up your argument with Pope Benedict.

I am unaware of any “harassment” on my part. You always have the option to not read what I am posting if it bothers you so much. It’s not like anyone is sending you “harassing” personal messages.

1 Peter 3:15 But sanctify the Lord Christ in your hearts, being ready always to satisfy every one that asketh you a reason of that hope which is in you.

If you feel that you do not need to provide a defense for what you believe (i.e. apologetics) then you should not be on an apologetic forum. Since the cm is very new and many of its practices appear absurd to outside observers, you should expect to have to give a defense and should have a much better defense ready than simply saying that the movement has gained approval of some leaders of the Church including a few popes (who keep in mind never at any time practiced any of the abnormal “gifts,” which many in the cm seem to focus so extensively on). Let us remember that even the authentic practice of the gift of tongues and all prophecy and having all knowledge of spiritual things is absolutely nothing without love.
But what is love? Love is doing what is in the best interest for the person who is loved. In practice, it can mean opposing teachings that others may believe in order that the truth may arise. This practice is not hatred (as you have wrongfully judged) but it is sincerely love.

Rather than impugn my motives, I recommend humbly approaching the materials I have shared, as I will with the materials you have, in hopes that in the end the truth will prevail. Let us not argue in order to reaffirm our pre-conceived notions. Rather let us humbly beg for light from heaven and be willing to listen when God reveals things contrary to what we may have thought, believed, or experienced. In our search for the truth, I find it best to start with what the Church has infallibly defined as true and work our way out from there.

 

[una_fides]

In the 1800’s Pope Leo XIII urged the Church to become more open to the Holy Spirit. It happened but not that way he thought it would. In 1897, he issued and encyclical entitled *On the Holy Spirit, *which called the Church to a new appreciation of the Holy Spirit, and the people responded, millions of them theologians, clergy, laity, in ways that they had not for centuries. The pope was encouraged to sing ‘come Holy Spirit’ on the first day of the century, which was done on Jan. 1, 1901.

At that time, that very day Jan. 1, 1901, there was a vigil going on in Topeka Kansas. There the tongues of fire fell, and started the Asuza Street Revival.

The point I am making is it may have begun in a Four Square Church, but it began as the result of the actions of Pope Leo XIII and the Catholic Church.

You can read more here 209.85.215.104/search?q=cache:twHZqstaJbAJ:www.hsma.net/newsletter/10-2007%2520Holy%2520Spirit%2520Missionary%2520Assoc.pdf+pope+prayed+for+a+fresh+outpouring+of+the+holy+spirit+on+the+church+and+it+came+through+the+protestants&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=us

This theory at least seems to have a better attempt to explain the cm as having a Catholic origin, which would be necessary for the movement to be legitimate. However, I am still concerned with what is being considered to be the outcome of the pope’s prayers. Could the result be that the Holy Spirit then came and descended not on the Pope and not within the Body of the Church, but outside of her and on those who deny her truth?

Pope Leo XIII did put out that encyclical on the Holy Spirit. At the same time he also put out encyclicals stating the following:

1. Wherefore, strictly adhering, in this matter, to the decrees of the pontiffs, our predecessors, and confirming them most fully, and, as it were, renewing them by our authority, of our own initiative and certain knowledge, we pronounce and declare that ordinations carried out according to the Anglican rite have been, and are, absolutely null and utterly void. papalencyclicals.net/Leo13/l13curae.htm

It is not for any human motive, but impelled by Divine Charity and a desire for the salvation of all, that We advise the reconciliation and union with the Church of Rome; and We mean a perfect and complete union, such as could not subsist in any way if nothing else was brought about but a certain kind of agreement in the Tenets of Belief and an intercourse of Fraternal love. T**he True Union between Christians is that which Jesus Christ, the Author of the Church, instituted and desired, and which consists in a Unity of Faith and Unity of Government. **
If they [separated churches] will but compare that Church with their own communions, and consider what the actual state of Religion is in these, they will easily acknowledge that, forgetful of their early history, they have drifted away, on many and important points, into the novelty of various errors; nor will they deny that of what may be called the Patrimony of Truth, which the authors of those innovations carried away with them in their desertion, there now scarcely remains to them any article of belief that is really certain and supported by Authority. … But how can hearts be united in perfect Charity where minds do not agree in Faith? **
It is on this account that many of those We allude to men of sound judgment and seeking after Truth, have looked to ** the Catholic Church for the sure way of salvation; for they clearly understand that they could never be united to Jesus Christ, as their Head if they were not members of His Body, which is the Church; nor really acquire the True Christian Faith if they rejected the Legitimate teaching confided to Peter and his Successors. … **Suffer that We should invite you to the Unity which has ever existed in the Catholic Church and can never fail; suffer that We should lovingly hold out Our hand to you. ** papalencyclicals.net/Leo13/l13praec.htm

So while Pope Leo XIII is calling for all those separate from the Church to unite to her so they can be joined to the sure way of salvation, charismatics suppose that at the very same time the Spirit is descending upon those who reject the Church, infusing them with supernatural gifts, and this same Spirit somehow did not lead them to become Catholic??? This historical occurrence also would not make sense.

Pope Leo XIII put out one document on the Holy Spirit but he also put out many more concerning the unity of the Catholic Church in which he implored the Eastern Orthodox and Protestants to have faith in all the truths and teachings of the Church and be united with her and with her authority for the sake of their salvation. Certainly if the Spirit were to have truly descended to hearts that were truly open and inclined to his calling, they would have responded by embracing the Church rather than continuing to reject her and her authority.

Christ said to those possessing apostolic authority as recorded in the gospel of Luke 10:16 He that heareth you, heareth me; and he that despiseth you, despiseth me; and he that despiseth me, despiseth him that sent me.

By refusing to submit to the Church’s authority, these protestants who claim to have been “filled by the Spirit” were in fact rejecting apostolic authority and thereby were rejecting Christ and rejecting the same grace of the Spirit. Individuals genuinely “filled with the Spirit” can not claim to be invincibly ignorant of the Catholic Church.

 

[Joysong]

Una Fides,

I had thought of listing all the posts that refer to your abhorrence of the CCR, but that would magnify your beliefs all in one post and further your purpose. Be assured, I did not speak without full knowledge of the purpose behind your suave words, as a search of your posts will unveil.

Rather than impugn my motives, I recommend humbly approaching the materials I have shared, as I will with the materials you have, in hopes that in the end the truth will prevail.

You are not seeking information, but rather believing that YOUR truth will prevail when we examine your references. However, the only Catholic website you listed is heretical, and the other four are Protestant. In addition, you advocated a book that denounces the CCR. This disingenuous move to “help” us understand you is similar to the questions posed by the pharisees to bait and trap Christ. I remind you of your words here:

Perhaps if you had experiences among the many millions [how many *millions

?] of charismatics who left the Catholic Church and instead joined “spirit filled protestant churches,” then you would have a different perspective.

There are excellent references provided all over this forum, besides the many in this thread, if you were truly interested in learning about CCR. It is apparent that you are simply proselytising your own belief system and have no use for what anyone has presented that contradicts it.

Una, before I speak, I check. I have read several of your posts so as not to be in rash judgment before God. We are cautioned in scripture to test the spirits that confront us, and I find yours to be one that I distrust and run from.

 

[Deacon_Ed_B]

As I said, “Nay sayers will keep surfacing.” If they don’t like it, or if it does not fit their concept of Catholicism, it is condemned no matter that Popes Paul VI, John Paul II and Benedict XVI all supported the Charismatic Movement within the Church. With all that has been said, explanations given, references given, publications (true Catholic ones) listed, if a person does not accept that the Charismatic Renewal is approved by the Church and the Magisterium, than nothing will. No one is saying they have to be Charismatic. They don’t have to be. They would be a hindrance to those that are. The fruits of the Spirit are real. That bit about “Millions” leaving the Catholic Church because of the Charismatic renewal is (fill in the blank) and is just not true in any way shape or form. I recognize that you reach a point where “discussion” is fruitless (because it only gives a forum for misinformation) and prayer is necessary.
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B

 

[InLight247]

…No one is saying they have to be Charismatic. They don’t have to be. They would be a hindrance to those that are. The fruits of the Spirit are real. …
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B

Amen and Amen!!

 

[DebChris]

There have been several posts asking why, if the charisms are truly from God, they were not bestowed on the popes first. First, we do not know that they were not. Pope Leo XIII gave us the Prayer to Saint Michael because of a vision of Satan challenging God.
Although the Catholic Church is considered heirachical in terms of authority, many of the devotions and prayers have a grassroots origin. The rosary developed thanks to peasants who wanted to join the monks as they prayed the psalms, but had other work to do. The Divine Mercy chaplet comes from the writings of a semi-literate nun. Bernadette knew nothing of the Immaculate Conception. The children of Fatima were questioned intensely concerning the Beautiful Lady they saw. St. Francis, the poor man of Assisi, was chosen by God to “rebuid [his] church.” St. John Vianney, the patron saint of priests was sent to an obscure village because he was not considered smart enough and yet God gave him the charism of reading people’s hearts.
God’s thoughts are beyond our thoughts. He does not necessaryily choose theologians. As shown in scripture, He does honor faith. Who are we to say who and how God might use any of us to build his kingdom?

 

[Deacon_Ed_B]

There have been several posts asking why, if the charisms are truly from God, they were not bestowed on the popes first. First, we do not know that they were not. Pope Leo XIII gave us the Prayer to Saint Michael because of a vision of Satan challenging God.
Although the Catholic Church is considered heirachical in terms of authority, many of the devotions and prayers have a grassroots origin. The rosary developed thanks to peasants who wanted to join the monks as they prayed the psalms, but had other work to do. The Divine Mercy chaplet comes from the writings of a semi-literate nun. Bernadette knew nothing of the Immaculate Conception. The children of Fatima were questioned intensely concerning the Beautiful Lady they saw. St. Francis, the poor man of Assisi, was chosen by God to “rebuid [his] church.” St. John Vianney, the patron saint of priests was sent to an obscure village because he was not considered smart enough and yet God gave him the charism of reading people’s hearts.
God’s thoughts are beyond our thoughts. He does not necessaryily choose theologians. As shown in scripture, He does honor faith. Who are we to say who and how God might use any of us to build his kingdom?

Beautiful response
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B

 

[Plain_Catholic]

That bit about “Millions” leaving the Catholic Church because of the Charismatic renewal is (fill in the blank) and is just not true in any way shape or form. I recognize that you reach a point where “discussion” is fruitless (because it only gives a forum for misinformation) and prayer is necessary.
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B

Aye indeed; those who paint with generalizations are using a very thin paint indeed. Sometimes we must, as Scripture tells us, shake the dust from our feet as testimony. Scripture also tells us that sometimes seed falls on infertile ground too.

God bless you, Deacon, for the work you do.

 

[una_fides]

In the 1800’s Pope Leo XIII urged the Church to become more open to the Holy Spirit… In 1897, he issued and encyclical entitled *On the Holy Spirit, *

Here is the link to Pope Leo XIII’s encyclical Divinum Illud Munus which is on the Holy Spirit that you referenced as the cause of the Holy Spirit first descending upon protestants who were not affiliated in any way with the Catholic Church: papalencyclicals.net/Leo13/l13divin.htm

If you read it, you will find that the Pope

“In pursuance of this object We have endeavoured to direct all that We have attempted and persistently carried out during a long pontificate towards two chief ends: in the first place, towards the restoration, both in rulers and peoples, of the principles of the Christian life in civil and domestic society, since there is no true life for men except from Christ; and, secondly, to promote the reunion of those who have fallen away from the Catholic Church either by heresy or by schism, since it is most undoubtedly the will of Christ that all should be united in one flock under one Shepherd. But now that We are looking forward to the approach of the closing days of Our life, Our soul is deeply moved to dedicate to the Holy Ghost, who is the life-giving Love, all the work We have done during Our pontificate, that He may bring it to maturity and fruitfulness. In order the better and more fully to carry out this Our intention, We have resolved to address you at the approaching sacred season of Pentecost concerning the indwelling and miraculous power of the Holy Ghost…”

In his very message concerning the Holy Spirit, Pope Leo is calling all to come to the Catholic faith, specifically mentioning those who are in heresy and schism (i.e. our “separated brethren,” the protest-ants (labeled as such because they protest and oppose the Catholic Church).

The miraculous power of the Holy Spirit is being focused on as bringing these souls to the Church, which is God’s will. Whether or not they can speak in tongues seems rather irrelevant if they are outside of Christ’s truth and are promulgating falsehood concerning the nature of Christ’s Church. They claim the Church is only the people and is not an institution, and they claim that the Catholic Church is evil! Why would the Spirit validate the messages of those preaching such things? That I cannot understand.

 

[una_fides]

Here is an interesting observation: we have no records in Scripture or Tradition of Jesus Christ ever speaking in tongues or falling on the ground in being slain in the Spirit. Yet Jesus Christ himself was the very embodiment of the fullness of all the gifts of the Spirit. So why you might ask did the Holy Spirit manifest himself in such a way in the beginning of the Church and the initial preaching of the new gospel of Jesus?

The gifts in the early Church (which did not include spirit slaying) were sign gifts in order to validate the message being preached to non-believers and to increase the faith of those first starting in this new movement. To clarify, I am not saying, nor have I ever said that the Holy Spirit cannot work in those ways again, but I am saying that the reason he did was to validate the message, so that the Church could be firmly established and the gospel could spread to the ends of the earth. Once the Church had been established and divine inspiration ceased with the death of the last apostle, we have no record at all of speaking in tongues again at any time in Church history. In addition, the numbers of miracles reported also steadily declined. Healings and other miraculous interventions took place but on a much smaller scale and with much less frequency. The reason for this fact was that the “pillar and foundation of truth”–the Church–had been firmly established. The times in which miracles are reported consist mostly of missionaries in lands which had never heard the gospel message. Thus, the primary purpose of these gifts is to verify the message being preached. For the Spirit of truth to descend upon protestants without descending on Catholics until they received it from protestants defies the very nature of the Spirit, who will not validate a message opposed to the truth and that leads souls away from His Church.

 

[Joysong]

And which of the five noncatholic and heretical links are you gleaning this information from?
I suppose that since none of us are interested in reading it or in debating it with you, you will obtrude your opinion anyway.
I am astounded that you place your faith in the reports of Protestants as being more correct and true than three Popes, together with the college of Bishops, who approved the CCR.
And in the next breath, you condemn Protestants as heretics!

 

[una_fides]

joysong,

I am sorry that you have misunderstood me and that you find it difficult to trust those who do not agree with you. As stated, my intentions are merely to seek and share the truth. If the things I have shared can be refuted on their merits, then I will gladly listen.

For you to say that you have “full knowledge of the purpose behind my words” is to make a claim that you cannot possibly support. Whether you believe me or not, my intentions are just. If you read my previous posts, you would see that I too was involved in the charismatic movement (howbeit the protestant end) from the day of my birth up until high school. This movement did not lead me to the Catholic Church but if anything led me away from it as it also did my parents. If you haven’t already, I suggest reading that earlier post if you have time.

I do not “detest” and “hate” the cm, but I do believe that it is misguided for the many reasons I have already shared. Contrary to what you stated, I am very open to the truth, as without it I would still be a protestant likely on my way to hell today. I say that because though I was a sincere protestant, I was caught up in the heretical teaching of salvation by faith alone, which permeates the protestant world. Having no need to confess my sins, I would trust in faith alone to save me, while in reality my soul was corrupted with vices and mortal sins that I could not overcome in that system of beliefs. It was not until I became Catholic and through God’s saving sacraments that I was able to grow in grace and overcome those various weaknesses. Though I am not perfect, I can say that I have grown tremendously in God’s grace and have overcame sins that I never thought possible. (all through regular confession, prayer, and receiving the Eucharist)

I share this information about me with you because I hope that you can see that my motives are in fact sincere, and if anything I have said has offended you, then I do apologize. I do have the tendency to be a bit overzealous at times but with good intentions I assure you. I do believe that you have publicly misjudged me and my intentions and have attributed to yourself the authority to do so, an authority which only God possesses. It can be easy to read an angry tone into someone’s writings especially when you disagree with it. I believe that you have done so, and again if I did write anything attacking the beliefs held by you or others on here, then know that I did it attacking the beliefs and not the people.

Only God can judge one’s intentions. I will pray that these discussions will be fruitful and it will not further digress with any more personal attacks. If you wish to answer my questions or refute my posts, then please by all means try, but I do ask that we leave it at that without falsely attacking the intentions of others. Agreed?

 

[Joysong]

It sounds very lovely, Una. I won’t discredit you or give you an opportunity to further your agenda by printing all the things that form the basis for my discernment from reading your posts. If it matters to you, I will do so privately. Would that you might return the favor and refrain from discrediting publicly all those who belong to the CCR. The fruit I find in your posts does not appear to put the shoe on the other foot, but you have been very judgmental and cast the entire movement in an extremely bad light, one step away from calling the participants heretics, though it is subtly implied.

Why is it that you are adept at researching multiple articles, links, and books that disparage the movement, yet you claim to be uninformed about the good links, posts, books, etc. that are all over the forum and easily accessible? One can only conclude that you feel it is incumbent upon you to expose the movement according to your logic, and rescue the charismatics from hell, through your repetitious taunting questions, forcing them to answer your objections.

Your problem is not with charismatics, nor the Church, but with the Holy Spirit who is just not doing things the way you expect Him to act. He is the one to whom you should be addressing your complaints.

 

[una_fides]

Your problem is not with charismatics, nor the Church, but with the Holy Spirit who is just not doing things the way you expect Him to act. He is the one to whom you should be addressing your complaints.

sounds like you are making an assumption here. so how can you know for sure that the Holy Spirit was poured out on Protestants and caused them to speak in tongues and be slain in the spirit? Again, dealing in the realm of infallibly defined teachings, do you have anything you could provide as evidence to support your thesis? The Church has never provided a solemn judgement on the matter neither has she specifically addressed the individual actions of which i am calling into question: speaking in tongues (as is practiced in modern charismatic churches) and being slain in the spirit.

If the Holy Spirit could possibly contradict Himself, then I would no longer be Catholic. If you want to believe that the Spirit of truth could validate a message that leads souls away from the Catholic Church and thereby away from the truth and away from salvation, then that is your business.

 

[Deacon_Ed_B]

Una - I have been following with interest the exchange between you and Joy song. Let me simply say that in your last post, I saw a different you than the way you have come across before. I do agree that when we feel we are being attacked, we tend to strike back. Rightfully or wrongly, that is human nature. Our fallen nature. We only ask that for those of us who are Charismatic and who are fulfilled by this that you not try to discredit that which we hold dear and also sacred. I am not talking about the Church, which we both hold as sacred, but the gifts of the Spirit which are given to those to whom the Spirit chooses. I have seen much good because of it. I have seen people leave sinful ways and come back to Holy Mother Church. As Jesus said, Satan would not attack his own house. I have repeatedly said that if you do not want to be Charismatic, thats OK. All we ask is that you please adopt the same attitude towards those of us who choose to be charismatic. The renewal has been approved by the Magisterium. That is good enough for us. .
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B.

 

[Joysong]

Una Fides,

I see that each conversation opens a new door for you to further your agenda.

No, I am not buying your taunt. Something about where to not put my pearls.

 

[una_fides]

Deacon Ed B,

I understand your connections to this movement are deep, and I also know that good can certainly come from this movement in the sense of individuals being sincerely converted and increase of love for Christ and even increase in growing in virtues and detesting of sins. But as you can tell, I have serious problems with these practices as being legitimate, which hinder me from accepting the movement. If you or others on this forum could answer my objections specifically, then perhaps that could change. If these objections cannot be adequately answered, then I would also hope that perhaps those who are engaged in this movement might instead consider the Church’s sacraments and traditional practices alone to be sufficient.

I believe that good can result from protestantism and from other religions to the extent that they promote teachings of truth such as love for neighbor, etc. (And for the record, i do not think the ccm is on the same level as protestant sects, as they hold to clearly heretical teachings). Nevertheless, to the extent that any religion, denomination, or movement deviates from the fullness of truth, whether in teachings or practices, these deviations must be exposed.

For me, and for the numerous saints throughout history, the sacraments have been enough. When compared with the reception of the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Jesus Christ, speaking in tongues, spirit slayings, and other emotional experiences are nothing.

While those in the ccm are quick to point out that some bishops have approved the movement, this recognition does not authentically validate the individual practices in the movement nor does it eliminate the possibility that the movement could be condemned or silenced at a later time.

We are on an apologetics forum, so I propose that we continue to defend our faiths in order that the truth can hopefully prevail.

God bless.

 

[InLight247]

I have hard time to understand your mentality. We just celebrated Pentecost Sunday where “they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in different tongues….”. (Acts 2:1-11) Speaking in tongue is recorded in the Bible black and white.
There is nothing new. Where is the problem?

If you or others on this forum could answer my objections specifically, then perhaps that could change.

I believe all your questions have been well answered multiple times with supporting documents.

Church’s sacraments and traditional practices alone to be sufficient.

That’s fine. If you don’t want to experience the Holy Spirit, you don’t have to.
Holy Spirit is the third person of the Trinity. Having nothing to do with the Holy Spirit is your loss, but you can’t accuse others who have had genuine intimate encounters with Him.

If you read 1 Corinthians 12:1-11, you will see all these gifts are manifested in Charismatic movement. If you ignore the Popes’ encouragement of the Charismatic movement, what part of the Bible proof are you objecting?