Charismatic Roman Catholicism

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My dear brothers and sisters in Christ. I am a johnny come lately to this post, as the last one was entered before I joined CAF. That said, let me simply say, do not discount the Catholic Charismatic Movement. It is the Holy Spirit breathing anew into the Church. I started as a complete skeptic, but at the urging of my sister, who at this time is Chairperson of the National Charismatic Movement, I attended my first conference in 1980. WOW. Did I have my eyes opened. I saw conversions, healings, both spiritual and physical taking place. I saw people coming back to the Church who had been away for years. Do not discount the gifts of the Spirit. They are real and manifest among us. I know priests and bishops who are very active in this. I have seen spirituality and vocations grow in those areas where the Charismatic movement is alive and well. I can only say look into it in a serious manner. You will be blessed for it.
Deacon Ed B
 
Deacon_Ed_B said:
My dear brothers and sisters in Christ. I am a johnny come lately to this post, as the last one was entered before I joined CAF. That said, let me simply say, do not discount the Catholic Charismatic Movement. It is the Holy Spirit breathing anew into the Church. I started as a complete skeptic, but at the urging of my sister, who at this time is Chairperson of the National Charismatic Movement, I attended my first conference in 1980. WOW. Did I have my eyes opened. I saw conversions, healings, both spiritual and physical taking place. I saw people coming back to the Church who had been away for years. Do not discount the gifts of the Spirit. They are real and manifest among us. I know priests and bishops who are very active in this. I have seen spirituality and vocations grow in those areas where the Charismatic movement is alive and well. I can only say look into it in a serious manner. You will be blessed for it.
Deacon Ed B
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Thank you for posting this.
 
Amen deacon Ed!
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 The poll I heard the other day was this, the two churches growing in america the most in the power of the Holy Spirit is the full gospel or pentecostals and the catholic church.   If we will read the early chuch writings and documents we will see that the early church was empowered the same way by the Holy Spirit. I am familiar with the renewal as I have been and am aquaintances with the leader of the one here.  NOw the one here has become a little laxed but they are seeking God to change that. Jesus said it quite simply..........IF ONLY YOU BELIEVE>  That is all that is required.  If we beleive........all thing are possible to those who beleive. then read mark 11. Jesus taught the disciples a great message on faith..........the catholic church cannot remove that nor can any other church.  Plus I beleive it is time for this to happen.  Thanks again Deacon Ed.......may the Lord be your cloud by day and your pillar f ffire by night!
Deborah
 
In my opinion, the “Charismatic” movement will ultimately fade, and die out. I will bet everything I own on that.
 
guanophore said:
The best place to start reading about this is in the second chapter of Acts and inI Cor. 12.
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Acts 2:4-8
And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they began to speak with divers tongues, according as the Holy Ghost gave them to speak. Now there were dwelling at Jerusalem, Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven. And when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded in mind, because that every man heard them speak in his own tongue. And they were all amazed, and wondered, saying: Behold, are not all these, that speak, Galileans? And how have we heard, every man our own tongue wherein we were born?
Doesn’t describe the modern day charismatic tounges experience. The Apostles spoke so that all the diverse groups of folks heard them speaking in their native language - they didn’t hear babbling or incoherant speech.
1 Corinthians 12:8-10, 28
To one indeed, by the Spirit, is given the word of wisdom: and to another, the word of knowledge, according to the same Spirit; To another, faith in the same spirit; to another, the grace of healing in one Spirit; To another, the working of miracles; to another, prophecy; to another, the discerning of spirits; to another, diverse kinds of tongues; to another, interpretation of speeches.
And God indeed hath set some in the church; first apostles, secondly prophets, thirdly doctors; after that miracles; then the graces of healing, helps, governments, kinds of tongues, interpretations of speeches.
This also doesn’t describe the modern charismatic tounges experience - note there were folks there who could interpret the tounges, so they apparently were a coherant language - not babbling or incoherant speech.

So these verses don’t give biblical evidence for the modern phenomena - they actually would tend to argue against it.

DustinsDad
 
rtconstant said:
…The Catholic Church has always had the Holy Spirit. Every Mass we witness a miracle. Our sacraments have always had healing power. If our missionaries needed tongues to convey the gospel I’m sure the Holy Spirit has obliged. So I guess I’m just wondering why have a movement to get something that was already there?..
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That hits the nail on the head. Thank you.

DustinsDad
 
There is a form of tongues that relates to others being able to understand and another that is a private prayer form.
 
RPConover said:
Complete garbage… has no place in the Church, despite Pope John Paul II’s seeming approval, in my opinion… hold on, the Holy Spirit wishes me to bark like a dog… can anyone interpret that??? That’s acceptable though, right? :mad:
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1 John 4:1
Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

The problem is how do we test them? One way, I think, is their obedience to the Church Magisterium. Like for example St. Francis of Assisi. In his time, there were personages who embraced evangelical poverty and seemingly passionate to live according to the Gospel but they repudiate the Papacy. Unlike them, St. Francis in all simplicity, he was so filially obedient to his bishop (his personal protector and became a Pope also) and the Pope. He also sought the permission from the Pope whenever he decides something so grave a matter.Example, the Christmas crib in the Mass during Christmas season became part of tradition because St.Francis’ request was permitted by the Pope.

If my recollection is right, Sister Faustina of the Sisters of Our Lady of Mercy was told by Jesus (in her vision) to obey her superior when she said that her superior did not want her to do what Jesus told her to do.

So obedience…is the test.

With obedience, humility, charity, and forgiving heart follow…

Hatred can never be a fruit of the Holy Spirit.
 
Judge the Charismatic Movement by its fruits of the Spirit. If you really have not looked into it, do not judge it. If you want to find out about it, contact your chancery office and ask for the address and phone number of the Catholic Charismatic Center. Most diocese have them. As I said I started as skeptical as the next person, perhaps even more so. Experience has taught me to open my eyes. It is very easy to try to put God in a box. But, he does not fit. He is bigger, and greater and He is omnipotent. Let the Spirit move as it wishes. Do not hinder it. You will be blessed as a result.
Deacon Ed B. .
 
Greetings!

Then how do you explain acts chapter ten vs 33-36? ALSO EXPLAIN 1 Corinthians 14;6-17 and vs39. Actually read that whole chapter. If the order of just the interpretation of language were at stake then this would not read like this. As for me I too was in the shadows of doubt until I experienced this myself. I have heard much false in this and I have witnessed the real deal. It is a matter of what we believe to be so. I have known people within the church who believe that healing isnt for today and they die in that! They beleive it is there lot to suffer and carry this cross…that is NOT scriptural. Carrying our cross means to lay down ourselves…put away what we want and desire and pick up HIS! NOw yes we can still go to heaven and beleive that but why not believe what Jesus said…In Hebrews it says that Jesus IS IS IS the same yesterday today and forever! In Matthew it says he went about preaching and teaching and healing the sick and they all revcovered!!! HIs words not mine. I will say this to all of you for food of thought…how is it that catholics can beleive that the Eucharist is the body of Jesus and the wine is HIs Blood yet denounce any other supernatural move of God? remember we serve a SUPERNATURAL God…supernatural means above the natural…I suggest and beleive just as I pursue that those of us who say we are christians get grounded in the word of God AND early fathers writings…are you aware that Justin martyr talks about baptisms of rebirth??? He is talking about a born again experience…Find out for yourselves. Somoene recetly said to me well I dont believe that…well guess what? YOu dont have to worry about experiencieng that because it will never happen for you! Simple. I want all of what God has given to us through Jesus, and if we think its only eternal life, which is awesome then we have missed what Jesus did in the gospels! He walked this out so to be an example to us and for us. That is the truth and scirpture backs that up. what I have learned is that God wants good for me…His! if that is the case then it would benefit me to know His truth! He hasnt left us or farsaken us…His words. He says that He is abudant life…that is not just for the after that is for here! I have proven this and I am walking it out in my own life!!! Glory to God…that is what our liives are suppsoe to reflect…His glory!!! shalom,

How many of us have ever suffered as Paul did or the others? Unless we live over seas we cant say that. The suffering Paul talks about enduring is for the gospel! He lived in hell lots of the time( persecuted for what he was saying!! because he was breaking new ground for Jesus! I cant say that I have ever done that…yet. That too may change in this country as we know it! another subject I guess…

Deborah
 
Beautifully said Deborah. May the Spirit dwell in you, and bless you and shower you with an abundance of his gifts.
Deacon Ed B
 
Hello_Operator said:
She. And thanks, it was all getting kind of overwhelming.

My question regarding charismatic gifts in general is, if they are truly of God, what are the qualifications for getting them? I mean, some congregations will never ever get even a glimpse of spiritual gifts such as speaking in tongues and healing and being slain. Other congregations are loaded with them. Is it just a question of belief? Do you have to believe to get them? Or does God truly work by congregational boundaries?
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These are excellent questions. I would answer the last question with a negative. God does whatever He wills on heaven and on earth. The Charismatic Renewal is only one of the movements of the Holy Spirit within the Catholic Church. Also mentioned in the United States Catechism of the Catholic Church are Cursillo and Marriage Encounter. My current diocese has a Charismatic bishop. There is more than one parish offering weekly prayer groups.
Often, you will hear about the necessity of asking for the gifts of the Holy Spirit in order to receive the gifts. Speaking of my own case, this is not always true. I encountered the Renewal at a time of deep personal crisis in my life. I attended an Easter retreat and continued returning to the retreat house. It was a fifty mile drive. It is true that the gifts are not openly manifested in all parishes. There are skeptics who do not understand that it is more than an emotional experience. Emotions come and go, but the gifts which come from God are lasting. God loves each of us more than we can ask or imagine. The gifts are given for the upbuilding of His Church. Why would I disdain anything that God chooses to give me? Receipt of the gifts does require submission to the Holy Spirit and a willingness to accept what God has to offer.
Deacon_Ed_B said:
My dear brothers and sisters in Christ. I am a johnny come lately to this post, as the last one was entered before I joined CAF. That said, let me simply say, do not discount the Catholic Charismatic Movement. It is the Holy Spirit breathing anew into the Church. I started as a complete skeptic, but at the urging of my sister, who at this time is Chairperson of the National Charismatic Movement, I attended my first conference in 1980. WOW. Did I have my eyes opened. I saw conversions, healings, both spiritual and physical taking place. I saw people coming back to the Church who had been away for years. Do not discount the gifts of the Spirit. They are real and manifest among us. I know priests and bishops who are very active in this. I have seen spirituality and vocations grow in those areas where the Charismatic movement is alive and well. I can only say look into it in a serious manner. You will be blessed for it.
Deacon Ed B
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I definitely appreciate your posting this. One of the things to look for is a FIRE rally. FIRE stands for Faith, Intercessory prayer, Repentance, and Evangelization. For the skeptics on this board, are these things that Satan would want?
It is important to point out, as you did, the number of vocations that come from those who have experienced the Holy Spirit in a very real way as part of the Charismatic Renewal. Perhaps someday the term Charismatic will drop from our vocabulary; not because the movement has died, but because the gifts are so common that the term is no longer necessary.
 
Deacon_Ed_B said:
Judge the Charismatic Movement by its fruits of the Spirit. If you really have not looked into it, do not judge it. If you want to find out about it, contact your chancery office and ask for the address and phone number of the Catholic Charismatic Center. Most diocese have them. As I said I started as skeptical as the next person, perhaps even more so. Experience has taught me to open my eyes. It is very easy to try to put God in a box. But, he does not fit. He is bigger, and greater and He is omnipotent. Let the Spirit move as it wishes. Do not hinder it. You will be blessed as a result.
Deacon Ed B. .
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Maybe I missed it, I apoligize if I did, but noone seemed to respond to post # 44 by Dustins Dad
 
Eilish_Maura said:
There is a form of tongues that relates to others being able to understand and another that is a private prayer form.
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The private prayer form is the one that I think most people have a problem with. The one that people can turn on and off at will. The one that seems to set these certain few into a special category, sort of like the super Christians of the early Church.

I don’t recall in the scriptural writings concerning tongues passages that described the special talents such as those being manifested today. You know where they can switch this remarkable gift on and off at will and that allows them closer contact to the Holy Spirit. If such passages do exist please point them out to me. No one else has ever been able to.
 
Deacon_Ed_B said:
Judge the Charismatic Movement by its fruits of the Spirit. If you really have not looked into it, do not judge it. If you want to find out about it, contact your chancery office and ask for the address and phone number of the Catholic Charismatic Center. Most diocese have them. As I said I started as skeptical as the next person, perhaps even more so. Experience has taught me to open my eyes. It is very easy to try to put God in a box. But, he does not fit. He is bigger, and greater and He is omnipotent. Let the Spirit move as it wishes. Do not hinder it. You will be blessed as a result.
Deacon Ed B. .
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yap. we are not to stifle every spirit but to test them. the best test is obedience to the Church–the Pope and bishops. the devil can appear to be holy, deeply knowledgeable of the Faith and every biblical verse, mimic healing power, etc. Obedience? that is detestable to him. he cannot fathom to obey a mere mortal.
 
Hello_Operator said:
They said that there are healing services at their school and people speak in tongues during mass.
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During Mass, you keep your mouth shut, and you pray - uniting your heart to the words and actions of the priest. Period.

There is no place for “tongues” during Mass. The Charismatics can do whatever they want after Mass, but it’s a completely inappropriate and selfish activity to engage in during it. I can’t even imagine such a thing taking place during Mass… I cringe at the thought.
 
Greetings in the Lord!
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I am going to atempt to address  most everyone who has posted ......first to Deacon Ed B, God Bless you dear man of God and thank you for the encouragement!  I am receiving what you said.....and I am expecting God to bless me in those areas....because His word says so....His promises are yes and amen!  Pauls words!   No doubt this journey is NOT in vain.....To Deb Chris....well done and well said!  All of us at one time or another have boxed God in!  How is it that we can say I cringe at the thought of God moving other than what we have been taught or what we will allow ourselves to believe or experince?  You cannot read and study th word of God and stay closed minded!  as far as the church, catholic, bishops, popes and priests?  They too are subject to accountabiltiy ot the word of God, yes the church. Well the catholic church states that it is aligned with the word of God!  So experiencing the Holy Spirit is meant to be in the mass ladies and gents!!!!  He was in the first century church and revelation by the way talks of the lukewarm church the one who thought they had everything.....hmmmmmm that church made God sick!
You WILL always find people who abuse this gifting ability. However I am telling you that these gifts are of God and Paul said i speak in tongues more than all of you.......hmmmmmm! The apostle Paul said that?  I have my prayer language and trust me when I tellyou it is NOT my abilty!  It is the power of the Holy Spirit within me!   The early chuch was empowered and walked by the power of the Holy Spirit!  THIS HAS NOT LEFT US!!!!  The enemy has used the comfort zones of members to stay the same and be deceived.....to change the structure of the orginal early church plan! Jesus HAS NOT CHANGED and please show me if the word says He has or if the vatican says He has!!!
  We are told in scripture that for those who diligently seek God He will reward.....how?  with more of Himself! more revelation about what He desires for your lives!  I know I have tested the spirits and I am here to tell you He is all of what scripture and the church says He is!  it bears repeating....how is it that catholics can understand that Jesus IS the bread and wine...that is most definitely a supernatural act of God....yet the other gifts are just not there?  That isnt even logical.  All I can say is this,,,,,,If you dont beleive.....you wont have to worry, it will not happen for you!
I take the word of God literal or inerrant…and so does the vatican! Please show me where they dont? Jesus said tradition is wrong IF it keeps His children from Him…hmmm. Answer that one…Thank you again and I am learning from all of you…may God Bless you all in your own journeys…

Debbie
 
deborahssong said:
Greetings in the Lord!
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I am going to atempt to address  most everyone who has posted ......first to Deacon Ed B, God Bless you dear man of God and thank you for the encouragement!  I am receiving what you said.....and I am expecting God to bless me in those areas....because His word says so....His promises are yes and amen!  Pauls words!   No doubt this journey is NOT in vain.....To Deb Chris....well done and well said!  All of us at one time or another have boxed God in!  How is it that we can say I cringe at the thought of God moving other than what we have been taught or what we will allow ourselves to believe or experince?  You cannot read and study th word of God and stay closed minded!  as far as the church, catholic, bishops, popes and priests?  They too are subject to accountabiltiy ot the word of God, yes the church. Well the catholic church states that it is aligned with the word of God!  So experiencing the Holy Spirit is meant to be in the mass ladies and gents!!!!  He was in the first century church and revelation by the way talks of the lukewarm church the one who thought they had everything.....hmmmmmm that church made God sick!
You WILL always find people who abuse this gifting ability. However I am telling you that these gifts are of God and Paul said i speak in tongues more than all of you.......hmmmmmm! The apostle Paul said that?  I have my prayer language and trust me when I tellyou it is NOT my abilty!  It is the power of the Holy Spirit within me!   The early chuch was empowered and walked by the power of the Holy Spirit!  THIS HAS NOT LEFT US!!!!  The enemy has used the comfort zones of members to stay the same and be deceived.....to change the structure of the orginal early church plan! Jesus HAS NOT CHANGED and please show me if the word says He has or if the vatican says He has!!!
  We are told in scripture that for those who diligently seek God He will reward.....how?  with more of Himself! more revelation about what He desires for your lives!  I know I have tested the spirits and I am here to tell you He is all of what scripture and the church says He is!  it bears repeating....how is it that catholics can understand that Jesus IS the bread and wine...that is most definitely a supernatural act of God....yet the other gifts are just not there?  That isnt even logical.  All I can say is this,,,,,,If you dont beleive.....you wont have to worry, it will not happen for you!
I take the word of God literal or inerrant…and so does the vatican! Please show me where they dont? Jesus said tradition is wrong IF it keeps His children from Him…hmmm. Answer that one…Thank you again and I am learning from all of you…may God Bless you all in your own journeys…

Debbie
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Nobody has responded to post #44.
 
I was typing up a post in this thread regarding the emotional defense of the Charismatic movemnt, and the subsequent lack of theological depth of those arguments - but decided not to post it and just let it go. Moments later, this post came in (selected excerpts from it below…)
deborahssong said:
…All of us at one time or another have boxed God in! How is it that we can say I cringe at the thought of God moving other than what we have been taught or what we will allow ourselves to believe or experince?

…He was in the first century church and revelation by the way talks of the lukewarm church the one who thought they had everything…hmmmmmm that church made God sick!

…The early chuch was empowered and walked by the power of the Holy Spirit! THIS HAS NOT LEFT US!!! The enemy has used the comfort zones of members to stay the same and be deceived…to change the structure of the orginal early church plan!

…Jesus said tradition is wrong IF it keeps His children from Him…hmmm. Answer that one…
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This is a perfect example of what I was going to point out, in that the defence of the Charismatic movemtn is very emotional and sounds very positive on the surface to the untrained or unsuspecting eye - until you look closer at what is actually being said. There are theolgical and spirital time-bombs for the One True Faith up there that lead to all sorts of problems.

I’m not going to go through and explain 'em all - I’m just wondering if I’m the only one who sees 'em.

Peace in Christ,

DusitnsDad
 
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