Charismatic Roman Catholicism

[juliamajor]

charismatic-heresy.blogspot.com

go there, that basically destroys the Charismatic movement.

My own 2 cents: It’s not of God, for the simple fact that there’s a Christian Relativism that I’ve sensed from being at many Charismatic groups.

Website total poo-. if it’s heresy- shouldn’t the Holy Father condemn instead of praising it?You guys really think that the Holy Father is- A dummy who doesn’t know what’s going on.-a “masonic” infiltrator or is too weak too fight this"heresy".

 

[DebChris]

“What father among you would hand his son a snake when he asks for a fish? Or hand him a scorpion when he asks for an egg? If you then, who are wicked know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will the Father in heaven give the holy Spirit to those who ask him?”(Luke11-13)
The gift of the Holy Spirit is not something earned. It is available to anybody who asks. It does not mean that any one of us is better than anybody else.
Isaiah and Peter both recognized their sinfulness. Nevertheless God was able to work wonders through them. He works through each of us. It is indeed the Spirit who prays through us, especially when we do not know how to pray.
“Just as a branch cannot bear fruit on its own unless it remains on the vine, so neither can you unless you remain in me. I am the vine and you are the branches. Whoever remains in me and I in him will bear much fruit, because without me you can do nothing” (John 15:4-6)
We are called to depend solely on God, to recognize our own poverty of spirit.

 

[Dr_M]

Website total poo-. if it’s heresy- shouldn’t the Holy Father condemn instead of praising it?You guys really think that the Holy Father is- A dummy who doesn’t know what’s going on.-a “masonic” infiltrator or is too weak too fight this"heresy".

The individual statments of Popes are not infalible as you well know.

Benedict has not praised the Charismatic movement while in office as Pope.

 

[Dr_M]

this “Baptism in the Spirit” is in escence saying: Your Baptism at your birth wasn’t good enough. Or Your Confirmation when you were sealed with the gifts of the Holy Spirit wasn’t good enough for you.

The gifts of the Holy Spirit are given to all of us at our Bpatism, but just like anything if you don’t use it, you lose it. These gifts become more present as you learn about your Faith and grow closer to God and His Church.

 

[Deacon_Ed_B]

this “Baptism in the Spirit” is in escence saying: Your Baptism at your birth wasn’t good enough. Or Your Confirmation when you were sealed with the gifts of the Holy Spirit wasn’t good enough for you.

You are not even in the ball park on this one. The boat has left the dock, you are not on it. i.e., No charismatic Catholic would ever tell you such things, nor teach such things, nor believe such things. Where in the world did you get this. In other words, i totally disagree with your above quote. Having been involved in this renewal off and on for the last 28 years, I have never heard anyone express or say anything like this. Is this your own conclusion. If so, based on what? Is this what someone taught you? if so, who and what was their source. This is just totally wrong.

Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B

 

[una_fides]

You are not even in the ball park on this one. The boat has left the dock, you are not on it. i.e., No charismatic Catholic would ever tell you such things, nor teach such things, nor believe such things. Where in the world did you get this. In other words, i totally disagree with your above quote. Having been involved in this renewal off and on for the last 28 years, I have never heard anyone express or say anything like this. Is this your own conclusion. If so, based on what? Is this what someone taught you? if so, who and what was their source. This is just totally wrong.

Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B

You say you have been a part of the charismatic movement for 28 years. Were you taught to be charismatic? Who taught you? Where did you get these teachings or practices from? What was the source?
If you trace it back to history, then you are inevitably endorsing Protestant theology, which originated from Protestants. This teaching can nowhere be found in the deposit of faith for the Catholic Church’s 2000 year history. If so, please show me any proof you can find whatsoever other than maybe a few Scriptures cited by charismatic protestants to justify their practices. The movement originated in the 1900s. It’s that simple. Just like other Protestant movements, it cannot be traced as being believed and practiced throughout history since the days of the apostles. God promised to never leave nor abandon his Church and that the gates of hell would never prevail against her. Let us stand firm and hold fast to the traditions of the apostles as have come forth from the Bride of Christ, our Mother, the Church and let us pray for humility that we might seek and understand the fullness of God’s truth.

 

[gloriajean]

Thank you for the nice, warm welcome Deacon Ed B!
I am just shocked at this thread. Imagine someone calling telling me that I’m above everyone else because I’m Charismatic and I did not say I speak in tongues, I pray in tongues, and YES! it’s the Holy Spirit praying thru me.

I’m astounded with all the negativity here - The Charismatic Movement is approved by the Catholic Church, I shared my story, I don’t believe that all those priests and nuns in my life are wrong, and I’ve experienced a lot since going to the Prayer Meetings. Not healings, I’m not talking about healings, I’m saying that I’ve gotten alot more out of the Mass since then. What I shared with you is my experience and you cannot say that isn’t true. My spiritual life has much improved and that’s a good thing, right?

I don’t believe for one minute about that anti-charismatic link you posted. I won’t even go into it. All negative! Nothing positive.
I’m new here, and only one of you welcomed me.
But one already was not nice - saying what was said is not true.

This is my 2 cents worth. Again, Thank you, Deacon Ed B for the warm welcome, and for sticking up for me.
Here I was excited to come to this thread, now I’m thinking that was a mistake.

 

[Mary_ann_R]

The individual statments of Popes are not infalible as you well know.

Benedict has not praised the Charismatic movement while in office as Pope.

Nor has he condemned it!

ADDRESS OF HIS HOLINESS BENEDICT XVI
TO THE MEMBERS OF COMMUNION AND LIBERATION MOVEMENT
ON THE 25th ANNIVERSARY OF ITS PONTIFICAL RECOGNITION

St Peter’s Square
Saturday, 24 March 2007

Dear Brothers and Sisters,

Dear Friends, your Movement is thus inserted into that vast flowering of associations, movements and new ecclesial realities providentially raised up by the Holy Spirit in the Church after the Second Vatican Council. Every gift of the Spirit is found originally and necessarily at the service of the edification of the Body of Christ, offering a witness of the immense charity of God for the life of each person. The reality of ecclesial movements, therefore, is a sign of the fecundity of the Lord’s Spirit, because it manifests in the world the victory of the Risen Christ and it accomplishes the missionary mandate entrusted to the whole Church. In the Message to the World Congress of Ecclesial Movements, 27 May 1998, the Servant of God John Paul II had this to say: that there is no conflict or opposition in the Church between the institutional and the charismatic dimensions, of which the Movements are a significant expression. Both are co-essential to the divine constitution of the People of God. In the Church the essential institutions are also charismatic and indeed the charisms must, in one way or another, be institutionalized to have coherency and continuity. Hence, both dimensions originate from the same Holy Spirit for the same Body of Christ, and together they concur to make present the mystery and the salvific work of Christ in the world.
This explains the attention with which the Pope and the Pastors look upon the richness of the charismatic gifts in the contemporary age. In regard to this, during a recent meeting with the clergy and the parish priests of Rome, recalling the invitation that St Paul addressed in the First Letter to the Thessalonians not to extinguish the charisms, I said that if the Lord gives us new gifts, we must be grateful, even if sometimes they may be uncomfortable. At the same time, since the Church is one, if the Movements are really gifts of the Holy Spirit, they must, naturally, be inserted into the Ecclesial Community and serve it so that, in patient dialogue with the Pastors, they can be elements in the construction of the Church of today and tomorrow.

Vatican website link.

PRAYER VIGIL AND MEETING,
SOLEMNITY OF PENTECOST
MEETING WITH THE ECCLESIAL MOVEMENTS AND NEW COMMUNITIES
HOMILY OF HIS HOLINESS BENEDICT XVI

St. Peter’s Square
Saturday, 3 June 2006

Dear Brothers and Sisters,
A similar meeting that took place in this same Square on 30 May 1998 with beloved Pope John Paul II springs to mind. A great evangelizer of our time, he accompanied and guided you throughout his Pontificate.

He described your Associations and Communities on many occasions as “providential”, especially because the Sanctifying Spirit makes use of them to reawaken faith in so many Christian hearts and to reveal to them the vocation they have received with Baptism. He also helps them to be witnesses of hope filled with that fire of love which is bestowed upon us precisely by the Holy Spirit…I place the intentions of your Movements and Communities in the heart of the Most Blessed Virgin Mary, present in the Upper Room together with the Apostles; may she be the one who implores God to grant them.

Upon all of you I invoke an outpouring of the gifts of the Spirit, so that in our time too, we may have the experience of a renewed Pentecost. Amen!

Chariscenter link.

 

[stmaria]

When Pope Benedict has a Charismatic Mass in St Peter’s where he speaks in tongues, I will believe it.
I doubt that the Pope is fully aware of all of the “speaking in tongues” that the Catholic and Protestant Charismatics claim to have.
I do wish someone would answer the question that has been asked many times on this thread.
Why hasn’t the Holy Spirit instructed the Charismatic Protestants to abandon their false beliefs and become Catholic?. Or is that not important anymore?

 

[water]

Why hasn’t the Holy Spirit instructed the Charismatic Protestants to abandon their false beliefs and become Catholic?. Or is that not important anymore?

That is a good question, but let me ask you this - do you believe in the Holy Spirit working with our non-Catholic brothers and sisters? I hope you do.

 

[stmaria]

That is a good question, but let me ask you this - do you believe in the Holy Spirit working with our non-Catholic brothers and sisters? I hope you do.

Yes, but only if it leads them, at some point in their life , to becoming Catholic. Outside of Invincible Ignorance of the Catholic faith their salvation is in jeopardy.The Holy Spirt cannot lead them anywhere else but to the divinely revealed religion established by Christ.

 

[water]

Yes, but only if it leads them, at some point in their life , to becoming Catholic. Outside of Invincible Ignorance of the Catholic faith their salvation is in jeopardy.The Holy Spirt cannot lead them anywhere else but to the divinely revealed religion established by Christ.

That is true, stmaria - the Holy Spirit will never want to lead anybody away from the Truth. What we don’t really fully know is that how and when the Holy Spirit takes the actions to lead people back to the fullness of the Truth.

 

[stmaria]

That is true, stmaria - the Holy Spirit will never want to lead anybody away from the Truth. What we don’t really fully know is that how and when the Holy Spirit takes the actions to lead people back to the fullness of the Truth.

Agree but don’t you think that if the Pentecostal Charismatics were really filled with the Holy Spirt that they would have converted to the True Faith by the thousands? This movement started in 1901. There have been no such conversions. I just don’t believe it.

 

[Deacon_Ed_B]

You say you have been a part of the charismatic movement for 28 years. Were you taught to be charismatic? Who taught you? Where did you get these teachings or practices from? What was the source?
If you trace it back to history, then you are inevitably endorsing Protestant theology, which originated from Protestants. This teaching can nowhere be found in the deposit of faith for the Catholic Church’s 2000 year history. If so, please show me any proof you can find whatsoever other than maybe a few Scriptures cited by charismatic protestants to justify their practices. The movement originated in the 1900s. It’s that simple. Just like other Protestant movements, it cannot be traced as being believed and practiced throughout history since the days of the apostles. God promised to never leave nor abandon his Church and that the gates of hell would never prevail against her. Let us stand firm and hold fast to the traditions of the apostles as have come forth from the Bride of Christ, our Mother, the Church and let us pray for humility that we might seek and understand the fullness of God’s truth.

We went through a Life in the Spirit Seminar. It was taught by a nun who worked out of the Chancery office for our archdiocese. We also have priests in our diocese,who work with the renewal who are approved by our Archbishop. I have attended many Charismatic conferences and all are most orthodox in teaching with concentration on Mass, Sacraments, Eucharistic Worship, Prayer, etc. Many EWTN regulars have been speakers at these seminars. People like Fr Pablo Straub Fr. Groschelle (sp), Fr Mitch Paqua. There have been bishops giving talks. During the entire conferences, there are priests available in large numbers for confessions to be heard. I can assure you there is nothing Protestant about it at all. The fruits of these conferences are great. People coming back to the Church, People entering classes for RCIA to become converts. There are several Catholic Universities here in this Archdiocese which have prayer groups. Most diocese/archdiocese have someone in the Chancery who works with this and there is a Charismatic Center in my archdiocese. Wherever you may be, call your chancery and see what they say. Inquiry through the Chancery wil prevent you from ending up with a splinter group. Are there any, Yes, obviously. If you say this reflects on the Charismatic renewal itself, before you assert this, think of the Protestant reformation itself. Did this mean that the Catholic church was not the true Church? What I am saying is inquire with discernment. Don’t simply attack based on hearsay information. Find out for yourself through proper channels and use discernment. It is not for everyone. That does not make you any less Catholic than any who are Charismatic. We are all one body.
Prayers & Blessings
Deacon Ed B

 

[water]

Agree but don’t you think that if the Pentecostal Charismatics were really filled with the Holy Spirt that they would have converted to the True Faith by the thousands? This movement started in 1901. There have been no such conversions. I just don’t believe it.

I don’t know about you, stmaria, but for me I count one soul at a time, not a hundreds or thousands.

Thankfully, through one retreat on the Holy Spirit (as Deacon Ed B said “Life in the Spirit Seminar”) organized by a Charismatic group in my area, I have my own conversion. I didn’t convert from a non-Catholic to a Catholic, but my conversion is about life-style changing.

Without going into details, seeing many people are suffering for a long time the same thing that I had suffered – but to me, without God’s grace and Divine Providence, I don’t think I could have changed that quick on this suffering. That had taken place 2 years ago, and I am still gradually changing on other aspects of my life.

Do I speak in tongue? No. The Holy Spirit gives me what I needed and I ask for what He knows best for me.

 

[stmaria]

I don’t know about you, stmaria, but for me I count one soul at a time, not a hundreds or thousands.

Thankfully, through one retreat on the Holy Spirit (as Deacon Ed B said “Life in the Spirit Seminar”) organized by a Charismatic group in my area, I have my own conversion. **I didn’t convert from a non-Catholic to a Catholic, but my conversion is about life-style changing. **
Without going into details, seeing many people are suffering for a long time the same thing that I had suffered – but to me, without God’s grace and Divine Providence, I don’t think I could have changed that quick on this suffering. That had taken place 2 years ago, and I am still gradually changing on other aspects of my life.

Do I speak in tongue? No. The Holy Spirit gives me what I needed and I ask for what He knows best for me.

Here I can totally agree with you. This is what I think the Pope believes about the Charismatic Movement and why he approves of it. I have never read where the Pope congratulates all those thousands and thousands of Catholics that are suddenly speaking in tongues { while he never has } and being ‘slain in the spirit’. I think he is talking about inner-conversions like the one you had.

 

[Deacon_Ed_B]

I think the Pope believes about the Charismatic Movement and why he approves of it… I think he is talking about inner-conversions like the one you had.

Thats what we have been saying all along, but people get hung up on the external manifestations of of the charisms, instead of the changes in ones spiritual life resulting from them. The whole purpose of the Charismatic renewal is a closer relationship with God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Not external manifestations of gifts.
Prayers & Blessings
Deacon Ed B

 

[Margarite]

I have stopped posting here because it is useless, my questions are never answered, but I do need to say something to someone who posted earlier,
Even though, CS Lewis was a protestant, many consider his writings to be those of a Catholic. He was best friends with Tolkien who was a Catholic, and so much of what Lewis wrote was very Catholic, so don’t point to Catholics using CS Lewis as an argument that those Catholics are protestant, because CS Lewis is often considered a Catholic in his writings, even though he never made the official step.

 

[water]

Here I can totally agree with you. This is what I think the Pope believes about the Charismatic Movement and why he approves of it. I have never read where the Pope congratulates all those thousands and thousands of Catholics that are suddenly speaking in tongues { while he never has } and being ‘slain in the spirit’. I think he is talking about inner-conversions like the one you had.

Speaking in tongue is the least gift. Personnally, if God allows one to speak in tongue, He can. Therefore, I am in no place to say who is faking and who is not as some people discussed here on CAF.

When I said “I don’t speak in tongue”, I meant at the present. But this event happened to me when one night I had an intention to pray the entire Rosary for the first time in my life. Pardon me for not going to details about me praying in tongue and other things happening that night because it is private revelation.

 

[water]

I have stopped posting here because it is useless, my questions are never answered

Hi Margarite, what was your question?