Charismatics bringing corpses to church

[ltwin]

Which Protestants? The ones I know don’t believe that, one bit.

Neither did the ones that I grew up with and hung out with for a total of 40 years. We were always taught that Paradise was emptied at Christ’s resurrection.

Pentecostals believe in an intermediate state as the time between death and the resurrection. We’re not separated from God, we in the presence of the Lord. But our final destiny is the new heavens and the new earth. See Guy P. Duffield and Nathaniel M. VanCleave, Foundations of Pentecostal Theology, 525-529.

Others believe in it as well. It is not so much that believers will not be in “heaven”. We will be in God’s presence, but we will be separated from our bodies. Ultimately, the heaven that awaits us and those who have died in Christ is the New Heaven and the New Earth, where will be resurrected just as Christ is.

lylemook.com/2009/03/24/life-after-death-intermediate-heaven-and-the-eternal-state/

desiringgod.org/resource-library/articles/what-do-you-believe-about-the-intermediate-state

gotquestions.org/intermediate-state.html

prca.org/pamphlets/pamphlet_81.html

 

[ltwin]

Also, here is a transcript from videos by N. T. Wright, the Anglican Bishop of Durham, talking about the intermediate state:

For many years now for the church in the western world, the word heaven has been used for the place that we go to, ultimately, and theres been lots of speculation about that. But in the new testament, the ultimate destination for the whole world, is that God is going to renew it, and bring heaven and earth together into one, in a great act of cosmic renewal and redemption. And that means when we think about heaven itself or where people go immediately after they die, the bible doesnt actually give us very much clue about that. Little hints and guesses here and there. And it says, no, thats fine, but the real thing is what happens after that. This is what I call the after, after life. Its not just the after life which we dont know very much about. Were told were going to be looked after. God will keep us safe. Paul says, my desire is to depart and be with Christ, which is far better. But the question is what is after that? Thats where resurrection and new creation are the really important thing.

From “What Does Heaven Look Like”.

According to the new testament, the time line says that you die, and if you belong to Jesus Christ, then you will be with him, which is the best thing you could possibly imagine. Its a time of rest. A time of refreshment. And delight. I dont think it will be an unconscious time. But its hard to describe, who we will be at that point. We can use the word, soul, if you like. But the bible doesnt use the word soul, that often. So its not necessarily a great help to know if that the best way of talking about it. But then after that time, and its hard to say whether we will experience it for a long time or not, but there are some things that we might. Then God will do something quite new, with the whole creation. And all those who have been, in that resting mode if you like, will be raised from the dead, and will be the new inhabitants of this new heaven and earth together, which God will make. Which will be both very like what we presently know, and quite unlike, because there will be no death, no corruption, no decay. Its hard for us because our minds are conditioned by a lot of Western philosophical thought. Its hard for us to imagine an non corruptible physicality. A body that wont be corruptible and decay. But that is what were promised. And its actually very exciting even though its hard to imagine.

From “What Happens After You Die”.

 

[cath4alltime]

I have never heard that when I was a Protestant. I was Evangelical, AOG, Baptist, everything but Methodist basically and never heard that, I have always heard when you die you go to heaven. It may be something new

 

[DaveBj]

I have never heard that when I was a Protestant. I was Evangelical, AOG, Baptist, everything but Methodist basically and never heard that, I have always heard when you die you go to heaven. It may be something new

Ditto. Itwin’s postings do not represent the position of the majority of American Protestants. They believe that the souls of believers go straight to heaven on death and there await being reunited with their bodies. They do not believe in an intermediate state. Itwin quoted an Anglican source; it’s not surprising that Anglicans would believe in an intermediate state, but in the U.S. the number of Anglicans doesn’t approach the combined numbers of Baptists, Pentecostals, and independent charismatics.

 

[Bonnie]

I have never heard that when I was a Protestant. I was Evangelical, AOG, Baptist, everything but Methodist basically and never heard that, I have always heard when you die you go to heaven. It may be something new

Same here. My grandparents were Methodists, I grew up in Baptist & Pentecostal & never heard of any after death places but Heaven & Hell. I know a lot of Evangelical Protestants & they’ve never mentioned it.

 

[aychihuahua]

In the Foursquare Church the doctrine of an intermediate state was taught but I have not heard anyone speak of it in some time. If I attend a Foursquare service these days it is almost always a funeral and the deceased is generally represented to be already in heaven with no qualification. But as a child, I remember learning about a state that was not quite heaven, called “paradise” where the saved would remain until the general resurrection.
I thank the previous poster for mentioning Dr. VanCleave. I have not thought of him in years, but he was a dear man who dedicated me as a baby.

 

[ltwin]

Same here. My grandparents were Methodists, I grew up in Baptist & Pentecostal & never heard of any after death places but Heaven & Hell. I know a lot of Evangelical Protestants & they’ve never mentioned it.

Ditto. Itwin’s postings do not represent the position of the majority of American Protestants. They believe that the souls of believers go straight to heaven on death and there await being reunited with their bodies. They do not believe in an intermediate state. Itwin quoted an Anglican source; it’s not surprising that Anglicans would believe in an intermediate state, but in the U.S. the number of Anglicans doesn’t approach the combined numbers of Baptists, Pentecostals, and independent charismatics.

First off, N. T. Wright is not just “an Anglican source.” Wright is a theologian and New Testament scholar respected by evangelicals generally, not just Anglicans.

My posts represent what most Protestant theologians believe. The intermediate state is not something you’ll probably ever hear a sermon on. If you want to find it, you have to turn to the pages of theologians like the Pentecostal theologians I cited above and the evangelical Anglican theologian I quoted. One of the websites I cited above was John Piper’s Desiring God ministry. John Piper is a reformed minister. A well known charismatic theologian Wayne Grudem has a section in his Systematic Theology on the intermediate state: Chapter 41 Death and the Intermediate State.

 

[ltwin]

In the Foursquare Church the doctrine of an intermediate state was taught but I have not heard anyone speak of it in some time. If I attend a Foursquare service these days it is almost always a funeral and the deceased is generally represented to be already in heaven with no qualification. But as a child, I remember learning about a state that was not quite heaven, called “paradise” where the saved would remain until the general resurrection.
I thank the previous poster for mentioning Dr. VanCleave. I have not thought of him in years, but he was a dear man who dedicated me as a baby.

Dr. VanCleave’s Foundations of Pentecostal Theology is a wonderful work. I did not know him, but he was clearly someone who was knowledgeable about the word of God.