Charismatics bringing corpses to church

[JustaServant]

Bring out your dead…

 

[ALLGIRLS]

I clicked on that link, and they’re right near me, in Wentzville, MO (I’m about 10 minutes away in O’Fallon). Funny I’ve never heard of them (new nondenominational & charismatic churches pop up every few months out here, it seems. They usually meet in schools until they get a permanent building).

In Christ,
Ellen

 

[HoosMommie]

I clicked on that link, and they’re right near me, in Wentzville, MO (I’m about 10 minutes away in O’Fallon). Funny I’ve never heard of them (new nondenominational & charismatic churches pop up every few months out here, it seems. They usually meet in schools until they get a permanent building).

In Christ,
Ellen

My apologies in advance for being ~totally~ off topic, but I found a video of the entire 2012 Easter Vigil from Assumption Parish in O 'Fallon. I have watched it and wept in anticipation.

OK back to our regularly scheduled programming.

 

[Reuben_J]

There are sometimes that claims are made that the dead are raised; however, they are pretty rare in my experience. Usually you hear such things during times of heightened awareness of God’s presence, like a revival.

I remember Todd Bentley during the Lakeland Revival several years ago claimed that people had said dead family members were raised, but I never saw any evidence that this had actually happened. In fact, Todd Bentley’s ministry later imploded in an explosion of scandal, so I wouldn’t trust anything he claimed during that revival.

There are also many stories about the dead being raised in non-Western countries. Sometimes this is through the ministry of Western missionaries and other times this is due to intensive prayer of local ministers.

This seems to be someone who claims a special anointing for healing. I don’t know anything about him so I can’t say anything without knowing more.

My church has a healing minister who God has used in the past frequently to bring healing, but he never has claimed to raise the dead. It’s more about just having faith to believe God for anything no matter how the situation looks and being willing to pray for anyone as the need arises.

Now about a transference of anointing from visiting a grave, that is a little weird. Though if you think about it its not much weirder than visiting the grave of a saint and praying to them.

I have heard similar stories or claims rather to raise the dead, yes, in Catholic Charismatics circle. However, in many of those instances, the dead was purported to have died or expired because there was no pulse or that the doctor was about to write the death certificate. Not that I don’t appreciate the work done or belittle the mircale, but maybe to erase any doubt perhaps the raising of the dead should be in the mould of Jesus raising Lazarus who had died three days earlier and the corpse started to smell.

 

[allhers]

My wife’s aunt hosts Easter dinner. She and her husband now go to a charismatic church some distance from where they live, and have invited the family to an Easter passion play starring the aunt’s husband in the role of Jesus. I looked at the church and, yeah there’s a few things that stand out as being odd.

One of them is the request to bring dead corpses to a “signs and miracles” service:
agapechurch.addr.com/events.html

I don’t think they actually bring coffins or recently deceased persons to the service, but are just citing that Scripture notes that the dead are brought back to life by those who manifest divine blessings.

There’s also a photo of the church’s pastor receiving the power of anointing by visiting the grave of another pastor. Somewhere between creepy and Crowley (pun intended).

Is this a common theme in charismatic or revivalist churches, the call to raise the dead as a sign or wonder, as something prefiguring the Resurrection?

Well, i read the link you posted and it does say, bring a dead corpse too. I think I’d pass on the dinner this year if I were you.

 

[CB_Catholic]

There are sometimes that claims are made that the dead are raised; however, they are pretty rare in my experience. Usually you hear such things during times of heightened awareness of God’s presence, like a revival.

I remember Todd Bentley during the Lakeland Revival several years ago claimed that people had said dead family members were raised, but I never saw any evidence that this had actually happened. In fact, Todd Bentley’s ministry later imploded in an explosion of scandal, so I wouldn’t trust anything he claimed during that revival.

There are also many stories about the dead being raised in non-Western countries. Sometimes this is through the ministry of Western missionaries and other times this is due to intensive prayer of local ministers.

This seems to be someone who claims a special anointing for healing. I don’t know anything about him so I can’t say anything without knowing more.

My church has a healing minister who God has used in the past frequently to bring healing, but he never has claimed to raise the dead. It’s more about just having faith to believe God for anything no matter how the situation looks and being willing to pray for anyone as the need arises.

Now about a transference of anointing from visiting a grave, that is a little weird. Though if you think about it its not much weirder than visiting the grave of a saint and praying to them.

In many non-western countries medical science is very backward, and I would guess that sometimes people are pronounced dead that really aren’t, as would occasionally happen before the advent of modern science. Graves were sometimes opened for various reasons and it would be found that the person was actually buried alive. Gruesome, but it happened.

 

[ltwin]

Why in non-Western countries, do you think? Do you believe these stories, or have reason to believe them? I’ve heard some, even within the Catholic Church, say that the Spirit has moved on from the United States due to our rejection of God in public life. That isn’t to say no American will be saved, but rather that the Spirit is focusing elsewhere that we may learn by enduring the painful attachments to sin we have engineered for ourselves through abortion, pornography, excessive drink and a violent culture.

I once heard this female Assemblies of God missionary to India (she runs a ministry for rescuing women from the sex traffic) describe how so many Christians in the West take for granted all the technological and educational advantages we have. She says that when you are in the mission field you learn really quick that it is “not by might, nor by power, but by the Spirit.” You learn the importance of truly depending solely on the power of God because there is nothing else. You have to pray, you have to have faith in the power of God, and you have to know who you are in Christ and not be afraid of the demonic darkness that is all around. She described returning to the United States and was walking in a grocery store and just became overcome with conviction because she had not carried over that same dependency on God back to the states. She looked around at everyone just going about their business as usual and she just was astounded at how many Christians in the US are just so spiritually unaware and how little they truly feel the need to rely on God.

Sorry for the rant. However, I think that expresses what many see as the huge difference between the church in developed countries and the church in underdeveloped countries. There is more of a desperation for God in places where God is really the only option.

I cannot argue with the need for faith, the essential character of trust in God, and the need to submit ourselves to Him and offer prayer. Has your healing minister conclusively healed someone, ie not just mind over matter (ie, my friend the psychologist who would use hypnosis to calm patients and ease their pain in the ER) but restored a withered limb or removed a disease thought to be incurable.

We don’t conduct investigations. Prayer is simply offered. If there is a good report we praise God for healing. There isn’t really a desire to try to p(name removed by moderator)oint whether there is a concrete link between an individual’s prayer and a sick person’s medical outcome. Then again, we don’t advertise that our healing minister will heal x,x, and x disease. He’s just a minister who happens to be experienced in healing prayer and is designated as the go to minister for such purposes.

When you put it in that light, I suppose it’s similar to Ac 19:12. Though I’d think a blessing from the saint’s portion of the Treasury of Grace is a different matter from ordination into a healing ministry, the latter of which would ordinarily require the laying on of hands whether in Catholic or non-Catholic practice.

Actually, most Pentecostals and charismatics use Acts 19:12 as the biblical basis for anointing prayer cloths (little strips of cloth that are anointed and then prayed over and placed on the body of a sick person or perhaps even a member of the armed forces).

Claims of anointing transerence from graves is very weird in the charismatic movement. I’ve heard that Benny Hinn claimed to have visited the grave of Kathryn Kulman and got some of her anointing, but Benny Hinn is questionable in his practices and personal life. So, its certainly not something that is normal for charismatics to claim.

 

[aychihuahua]

Check out the link on Mel Bond’s website that leads to the books he offers for sale. This man is definitely off beat. He claims that Jesus personally taught him his doctrines. He claims that he is able to teach others to be able to see and converse with the Lord Jesus themselves. And he further claims that Native Americans are somehow the necessary channels that God will use to bring about His will for the world because “Native Americans are seers.” I was raised pentecostal (Foursquare) and have never seen anything quite like this.
To answer your question about whether or not charismatic churches usually offer to resurrect the dead-the answer is no as far as my experience goes. However, as another poster has pointed out, missionaries to foreign countries have occasionally reported this type of happening in places where the people are more simple and perhaps have greater faith than those of us in the technologically advanced nations.

 

[Dorothy]

We need to be aware of false prophets. Obey the Church’s legitimate authority! Pray for discernment.

 

[losh14]

Little update: my wife no longer wants to go through the extra effort of getting us to this Passion Play, since it would mean our getting up two hours earlier (a struggle with our kids) or skipping Mass (which we aren’t willing to do).

I’ll feign disappointment when we get there.

 

[Lochias]

Little update: my wife no longer wants to go through the extra effort of getting us to this Passion Play, since it would mean our getting up two hours earlier (a struggle with our kids) or skipping Mass (which we aren’t willing to do).

I’ll feign disappointment when we get there.

 

[Lisa1967]

Wow. I know people who worship at charismatic churches but I’ve never heard of anything like this.

 

[HoosMommie]

Little update: my wife no longer wants to go through the extra effort of getting us to this Passion Play, since it would mean our getting up two hours earlier (a struggle with our kids) or skipping Mass (which we aren’t willing to do).

I’ll feign disappointment when we get there.

Excellent

 

[Bob_Crowley]

There’s also a photo of the church’s pastor receiving the power of anointing by visiting the grave of another pastor. Somewhere between creepy and Crowley (pun intended).

Er, hoi! My names Crowley!

I trust you’re referring to my less than illustrioius long dead namesake, Aleister, aka “The Beast”?

 

[cath4alltime]

My wife’s aunt hosts Easter dinner. She and her husband now go to a charismatic church some distance from where they live, and have invited the family to an Easter passion play starring the aunt’s husband in the role of Jesus. I looked at the church and, yeah there’s a few things that stand out as being odd.

One of them is the request to bring dead corpses to a “signs and miracles” service:
agapechurch.addr.com/events.html

I don’t think they actually bring coffins or recently deceased persons to the service, but are just citing that Scripture notes that the dead are brought back to life by those who manifest divine blessings.

There’s also a photo of the church’s pastor receiving the power of anointing by visiting the grave of another pastor. Somewhere between creepy and Crowley (pun intended).

Is this a common theme in charismatic or revivalist churches, the call to raise the dead as a sign or wonder, as something prefiguring the Resurrection?

I am in the Charismatic Episcopal Church and we would never do such nonsense

 

[Schism_hater]

“Dead corpse” is redundant.

Come on, don’t you know about zombies?

 

[DaveBj]

Given the belief in those circles that when a believer dies, he goes straight to Heaven, if I were one of them, and I died and went to Heaven, and then someone prayed me back into my body to resume the life I’m currently living, I would be going to hell the next time I died, because I would shoot the person responsible for bringing me back :bigyikes:

 

[ltwin]

Given the belief in those circles that when a believer dies, he goes straight to Heaven, if I were one of them, and I died and went to Heaven, and then someone prayed me back into my body to resume the life I’m currently living, I would be going to hell the next time I died, because I would shoot the person responsible for bringing me back :bigyikes:

Actually, Protestants do believe in an intermediate state for the righteous, paradise, which is different from heaven. The righteous don’t actually go to heaven until after the resurrection and the judgement.

 

[Lochias]

Actually, Protestants do believe in an intermediate state for the righteous, paradise, which is different from heaven. The righteous don’t actually go to heaven until after the resurrection and the judgement.

Which Protestants? The ones I know don’t believe that, one bit.

 

[DaveBj]

Which Protestants? The ones I know don’t believe that, one bit.

Neither did the ones that I grew up with and hung out with for a total of 40 years. We were always taught that Paradise was emptied at Christ’s resurrection.