Charles Martel and the Fall of Europe

  • Thread starter Thread starter PatThePoet
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
P

PatThePoet

Guest
It seems that Europe has fallen.

France and the UK are becoming more secular (driven headlong by the rantings of millitant atheists like Dawkins) and Islamified (more Muslims attend mosque than Christians attend churches)

The great cathedrals of England, France, Spain, Germany, and the beautiful Jesuit churches of Swizerland are more like museums than places of Christian worship.

Scandanavia is pretty much atheist/secular. The state Lutheran churches are empty and Catholics are pretty much non-existant.

In Ireland, the last great Catholic stronghold of the British Isles, secularism is on the rise as people leave the church each year.

All over Western and Northern Europe, church attendance numbers dwindle. The upkeep of these buildings is costing Catholics and Protestants that they don’t have and many churches are being sold off as apartments or offices.

Polls show that huge percents of Europeans hold atheistic beliefs. While Islam continues on the upward trend.

How long will it be untill Notre Dame is sold off, her windows shattered, stonecraft smashed, and turned into a mosque on the Seine? Or when York Minister has her crosses torn down and replaced by crecents? When Munich’s Baroque churches are turned to warehouses? Or when St. Paul’s becomes “Richard Dawkin’s Temple of Reason”?

What has this world come to?

Some say that Christanity’s downfall in the West is proof that religious nonsence and myth can’t survive in an age of reason. While a Christian may counter with “The church is growing in Asia and Africa”, it is evident that those nations are less educated that the secular West. Is Christanity just another religion that grew up, held the world on a string, divided, and fell?

What is the truth? :confused:
 
I’m sure I’ll get flamed for this, but it’s fine.

I see the emergence of Islam as a good thing for Europe and the world for the following reasons:

Islam has a strong tradition of tolerance and justice, which Christianity never had and never will have.

Islam has a strong tradition of intellectual inquiry, which led to many of the scientific advances we enjoy in the west today.

If it weren’t for Islamic competition, it’s fair to surmise that we’d all still be living in caves, eating our children, and dying from diseases caused because we were too dimwitted to wash our hands. That’s what the west devolved into almost immediately after Christ slew Rome, and it wasn’t until the Muslims (who had continued to advance) were poised to take over the show that we partially rejected Christianity and got a bit of enlightenment back.

If there has to be religion, then we have a choice. In 1000 years, Muslims will be piloting starships to the edge of the galaxy, and the lifespan for humans might be 300 years. On the other hand, Christians will be living in sewers, unable to feed themselves, seeing things like stem-cells and high velocity physics as tools of Satan. No hard feelings Christians, but I know which side I’m on.
 
LaMar said:
I’m sure I’ll get flamed for this, but it’s fine.

I see the emergence of Islam as a good thing for Europe and the world for the following reasons:

Islam has a strong tradition of tolerance and justice, which Christianity never had and never will have.

Islam has a strong tradition of intellectual inquiry, which led to many of the scientific advances we enjoy in the west today.

If it weren’t for Islamic competition, it’s fair to surmise that we’d all still be living in caves, eating our children, and dying from diseases caused because we were too dimwitted to wash our hands. That’s what the west devolved into almost immediately after Christ slew Rome, and it wasn’t until the Muslims (who had continued to advance) were poised to take over the show that we partially rejected Christianity and got a bit of enlightenment back.

If there has to be religion, then we have a choice. In 1000 years, Muslims will be piloting starships to the edge of the galaxy, and the lifespan for humans might be 300 years. On the other hand, Christians will be living in sewers, unable to feed themselves, seeing things like stem-cells and high velocity physics as tools of Satan. No hard feelings Christians, but I know which side I’m on.
Click to expand...
Don’t worry, won’t flame. It’s not even worth responding. However, if there is anyway you can repay me for the 30 seconds I spent reading this, I would appreciate it.
 
Tell that “Islam has a strong sense of tolerance and justice” to those who’ve been to Saudi Arabia. How about the religious violence that flairs up every now and then in Indonesia? I do agree though that Islam’s emergence just might wake Europe up from its stupor, and realize that its culture and heritage are being taken over by a force it has long thought to have checked, if not actually defeated. However, to say Islam gave all those things stated is much of a stretch. How much advancement Islamic countries had is up for debate; much of Europe overtook it after the Ottoman’s long, slow decline. It has never recovered ever since then. No, Europe has to save itself and wake up if it still wants its heritage intact, or else the march of new immigrants will topple its heritage and we will see the many Christian edifices go the way of the Roman and Greek structures–disused, fallen, and a nice backdrop for tourists, but not much else. If not checked, Christianity will become a thing of the past for Europe, much like paganism was for Rome.
 
PatThePoet said:
Some say that Christanity’s downfall in the West is proof that religious nonsence and myth can’t survive in an age of reason. While a Christian may counter with “The church is growing in Asia and Africa”, it is evident that those nations are less educated that the secular West. Is Christanity just another religion that grew up, held the world on a string, divided, and fell?

What is the truth? :confused:
Click to expand...
Hi

There is no need to get confused. ProtestantCatholics left reasons and adopted mythical creeds courtesy Paul. That age is now past and reason has taken over; it will take over the whole globe as it is a meritorious human trait. Jesus was a man of reason; his Word of revelation from GodAllahYHWH was supported by his reason. The ProtestantCatholics should mend their ways and differences with JesusYeshuaIssa; and they will win again if they do it.

Thanks

paarsurrey.blogspot.com/
Please visit my blog!!!
I am learning to run it though
 
Ask most people in Europe who Richard Dawkins is and you’ll get ‘Who?’ in several languages, including English.
 
Milliardo said:
No, Europe has to save itself and wake up if it still wants its heritage intact, or else the march of new immigrants will topple its heritage and we will see the many Christian edifices go the way of the Roman and Greek structures–disused, fallen, and a nice backdrop for tourists, but not much else. If not checked, Christianity will become a thing of the past for Europe, much like paganism was for Rome.
Click to expand...
Save itself from what?
 
Kaninchen said:
Save itself from what?
Click to expand...
Save itself from the loss of many things–its culture, heritage, religion. Of course, one can say culture and heritage are dynamic, in that the infuse of new immigrants will ultimately change a particular place, but if we are talking about Christianity here, then Europe better start waking up.
 
Milliardo said:
Save itself from the loss of many things–its culture, heritage, religion. Of course, one can say culture and heritage are dynamic, in that the infuse of new immigrants will ultimately change a particular place, but if we are talking about Christianity here, then Europe better start waking up.
Click to expand...
Well, it’s a Catholic board so I guess I have to expect that if people are ‘talking about Christianity’, they would see its decline as a loss!
 
Kaninchen said:
Well, it’s a Catholic board so I guess I have to expect that if people are ‘talking about Christianity’, they would see its decline as a loss!
Click to expand...
Not just Catholics, but Orthodox, Protestants, and anyone who calls himself Christian.
 
Kaninchen said:
It’s not an ‘Orthodox, Protestants, and anyone who calls himself Christian’, set of boards, though.
Click to expand...
No, but we’re talking about a continent here, which is made up of different people and beliefs. If I might add, it might affect European Jews as well since Islam’s continued feud with it will ensure a long time of animosity there. The point is, one should be concerned by this.
 
Milliardo said:
No, but we’re talking about a continent here, which is made up of different people and beliefs. If I might add, it might affect European Jews as well since Islam’s continued feud with it will ensure a long time of animosity there. The point is, one should be concerned by this.
Click to expand...
Why are you making the assumption that Islam will be a significant factor?
 
Kaninchen said:
Why are you making the assumption that Islam will be a significant factor?
Click to expand...
If we follow the trend closely, it would be safe to assume that in just a few years Islam will have such a significant impact as to change the way Europe thinks, so much so that we would see a slow drive towards Europe becoming Islamic. This would be ironic in that for many centuries Europe has resisted Islam, and now its invasion has come at a relatively peaceful time for it. With many Europeans also ceasing to be active Christians, we see a gradual erosion of Christianity there, and with it an indifference towards Islam. In short, many people have stopped caring, a very dangerous thing to happen. Passive acceptance will eventually lead to an aggressive drive to making converts, and such passive acceptance usually makes for unwitting converts who couldn’t tell the difference, or refuse to see the difference (between Christianity and Islam).
 
Kaninchen said:
Well, it’s a Catholic board so I guess I have to expect that if people are ‘talking about Christianity’, they would see its decline as a loss!
Click to expand...
Hi

The ProtestantismCatholicism are losing ground to the AtheistsAgnostics as they lost the reasonable and logical concpts of Jesus and Mary; instead they adopted mythical concepts of Paul. The table could be turned again if they mend their ways and differences with Jesus and Mary.

I love Jesus and Mary and their true life account and teachings as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks

paarsurrey.blogspot.com/
Please visit my blog!!!
I am learning to run a blog just to provide information to my peaceful friends.
 
Milliardo said:
If we follow the trend closely, it would be safe to assume that in just a few years Islam will have such a significant impact as to change the way Europe thinks, so much so that we would see a slow drive towards Europe becoming Islamic.
Click to expand...
On the other hand, if we follow trends discernible from European paranoias as opposed to those discernible from American paranoias, we’ll end up with the whole world in the control of Polish plumbers.
 
paarsurrey said:
Hi

The ProtestantismCatholicism are losing ground to the AtheistsAgnostics as they lost the reasonable and logical concpts of Jesus and Mary; instead they adopted mythical concepts of Paul. The table could be turned again if they mend their ways and differences with Jesus and Mary.

I love Jesus and Mary and their true life account and teachings as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks

paarsurrey.blogspot.com/
Please visit my blog!!!
I am learning to run a blog just to provide information to my peaceful friends.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately though, Islam is no less of a fable as far as atheists are concerned, so such a view doesn’t hold much water. The same view they hold for Christianity holds true for Islam as far as they’re concerned.
 
Milliardo said:
If we follow the trend closely, it would be safe to assume that in just a few years Islam will have such a significant impact as to change the way Europe thinks, so much so that we would see a slow drive towards Europe becoming Islamic. This would be ironic in that for many centuries Europe has resisted Islam, and now its invasion has come at a relatively peaceful time for it. With many Europeans also ceasing to be active Christians, we see a gradual erosion of Christianity there, and with it an indifference towards Islam. In short, many people have stopped caring, a very dangerous thing to happen. Passive acceptance will eventually lead to an aggressive drive to making converts, and such passive acceptance usually makes for unwitting converts who couldn’t tell the difference, or refuse to see the difference (between Christianity and Islam).
Click to expand...
Hi

But I think Islam’s real argumentative combat will be with the AtheistsAgnostics; the CatholicsProtestants if they won’t mend their ways and concepts with Jesus and Mary; would be convinced much earlier though. Myths of Paul cannot withstand the reason oriented onslaught of the AtheistsAgnostics, in my opinion.

Thanks

paarsurrey.blogspot.com/
Please visit my blog!!!
I am just learning to run a blog to provide information to my peaceful friends.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top