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kage_ar
Guest
There is good reason that Scripture tells us not to be unequally yoked with unbelievers.
The wise thing to do is to let this girl go, pray for her conversion, and wait to date someone who will share your Faith.
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The wise thing to do is to let this girl go, pray for her conversion, and wait to date someone who will share your Faith.
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Irish_Catholic_1
Guest
However, there ARE a lot of people to whom I said applies, if not the poster I was actually responding to
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sherimarie
Guest
You have my prayers (and respect!). As long as your girl is still listening to you then there is hope for your relationship, you may be the means to her salvation. Pray to Saint Thomas for streangth to fight your temptation and also play it smart, dont even be all alone with her if that is what it takes, she may try to tempt you but she will respect you all the more if you be a good leader and stand firm in your new beliefs.
Good luck!
Saint Thomas pray for him!
Good luck!
Saint Thomas pray for him!
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wanner47
Guest
We stay chaste and use NFP, when we have serious reasons, to space births. We’ve also used to it conceive four of our children (we’ve lost two children to miscarriage; only one was unplanned and it was a failure on our part to chart properly, not a failure of the method itself).
Blessings to you during your journey to the Church.
Here’s one of the best articles on Contraception vs. NFP that I’ve ever read – you may find it helpful. Contraception: Why Not? by Dr. Janet Smith.
Blessings to you during your journey to the Church.
Here’s one of the best articles on Contraception vs. NFP that I’ve ever read – you may find it helpful. Contraception: Why Not? by Dr. Janet Smith.
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Augusta_Sans
Guest
My response is long-winded and I’m not the world’s best writer, but I hope you’ll read through it because I do feel like I have been in your shoes and understand where you are coming from.
First, what I have learned about premarital sex versus marital sex from my research and the sage advice of both Catholics and atheists: (1) Premarital sex is lustful, passionate, exciting! there is the thrill of the chase, the thrill of the catch, and the thrill of not knowing what the future holds. (2) In an unsure marriage (such as one where the vows were “so long as our love shall last” instead of “for better or for worse”), marital sex can be a lot like premarital sex. (3) In a genuine committed marriage (where you know, with ABSOLUTE confidence that your spouse is NEVER going to leave you), the sex is transformed. It’s still “tab A in slot B,” but the anticipation, the not-knowing, the excitement is gone. You know what the future holds.
That said, when you decide where your relationship is going, don’t take into account the sex that you have had. Premarital sex is so different from marital sex, it’s the equivalent of staying in a relationship because she’s the first woman you’ve played hockey with. I apologize for trivializing what I know feels like a deep connection, but in hindsight, that’s how I feel about my past sexual partners with whom I, at the time, felt an intense passionate love.
There’s obviously more to your relationship with this woman than the sex, but it sounds like there are many obstacles for you to overcome. Christians have more successful marriages (in part because many atheists live together and never marry.) The first man I had sex with was an atheist. He was a negative person, occasionally belittled me for my beliefs (Lutheran at the time), and ultimately was a negative influence on my sense of self-worth and my Christian faith. Fortunately for you, it sounds like your atheist girlfriend is loving, but it still sounds like she has a negative effect on your faith, and you expressed you do want to maintain your faith. With atheists, Catholics can (1) love them as they are, (2) try to convert them, (3) distance themselves. If you love her as she is, she will continue to shake your faith. If you try to convert her, she will not feel unconditionally loved, which is a recipe for disaster in a marriage. If you distance yourself, you both have a chance at finding new relationships that will be a better fit.
Marriages are hard work, even for “the perfect couple.” If you continue with this woman, you are setting yourselves up for a troublesome marriage, at best. You just need to determine whether you’re both up to the challenge of treating each other lovingly, even when you don’t feel love toward each other. The occasional lack of love is something all relationships go through and it can last for months or years, not just after one little lover’s quarrel. (Wish someone had prepared me for that reality before I got married!)
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monicatholic
Guest
this is partly true. it’s definitely transformed.
we’ve been married 21 years. i had a dreadfully colorful sexual past. he had none.
it took a long time for me to heal from the scars of my sexual past. scars like thinking forbidden fruit was best. scars like expecting marital sex to have the emotional cliff-hanging thrills of premarital sex. scars like believing the emotional cliff hanging was a positive, passionate experience.
i had to repent. really deeply repent. i had to admit that past exciting moments were disordered. i had to admit that past tender moments were, in fact, counterfeit. i may have ‘felt’ committed. my body may have said, ‘committment’ but there was no sacrament, no promise, no vow, no blessing from God-- only temporary fix, only sin.
when i really deeply repented because those behaviors offended Our All Good and Loving and Merciful God, that’s when i healed. so long as i defended any of my premarriage sexual behavior (in my mind, in casual conversations, in my ego etc.) i would not heal and our love together couldn’t really deepen and grow and transform.
so. after 21 years of making love to the same man? do i miss anticipation? the not knowing? is the excitement gone?
How much better is God’s version of sex than the world’s version of sex is like the difference between eating cold McDonalds happy meal in a dumpster and eating shrimp caprese on a yacht. in the mediterranian. wearing a gold lame dress. and i’ts a size 6. (replace the outfit for something manly if that suits you, but you get my meaning, i trust.)
whatever cheap thrills were lacking are replaced by an earth-shaking physicality and spiritual union that, because we’re sacramentally married, are entirely chaste, (but about which, if i wrote more, I would risk seeming unbecomingly immodest.)
so that’s how it works for us. the only thing i can’t help you with is the “without having lots and lots of children.” we have lots and lots of children. we do NOT know what the future holds-- only we trust each other that so long as the both of us are alive, we will be together to face, with God’s grace, whatever the future does hold.
at the beginning, middle and end of the day, TomKat, do it God’s way. don’t sell out for anything less than God’s way.
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BrokenFortress
Guest
I’m sorry if I offend you TomKat, but I’m going to be blunt. Going into a committed relationship with someone who does not understand or respect your views is going to be tough. If you worry about how long she’ll stay interested without sex, that isn’t giving a whole lot of hope for your relationship. Love is not about sex. Sure, it’s part of it. BUT it’s a part of it between two married people, not between unmarried people. It’s not the way God intended it.
Building a relationship on how the sex is isn’t going to carry you through life’s obstacles. Faith is. It’s going to be way harder to stay unified together against the Devil and the World when you don’t both agree on something so important as faith.
I’m not saying completely break off the relationship without a doubt. I just want to caution you.
As far as your questions are concerned, I am and will remain chaste until I’m married. My fiance and I have been together for 5 years and have both remained chaste. So it is possible. And I don’t feel like I’m missing anything by not having premarital sex with him. There’s a reason God wants us to wait until we’re married. I think it helps prevent things such as this where your relationship is dependent on the physical aspects of the relationship versus the faith and trust.
Will this girl support you in not using contraceptives? I kind of assume not, as assuming if you’re sexually active, you guys are using some sort of contraceptive. The Church’s stance is that contraceptives are wrong. If you’re already in this state of sin, it’s going to be hard to break it should you guys get married. I just think there’s a lot you need to pray about with this.
Building a relationship on how the sex is isn’t going to carry you through life’s obstacles. Faith is. It’s going to be way harder to stay unified together against the Devil and the World when you don’t both agree on something so important as faith.
I’m not saying completely break off the relationship without a doubt. I just want to caution you.
As far as your questions are concerned, I am and will remain chaste until I’m married. My fiance and I have been together for 5 years and have both remained chaste. So it is possible. And I don’t feel like I’m missing anything by not having premarital sex with him. There’s a reason God wants us to wait until we’re married. I think it helps prevent things such as this where your relationship is dependent on the physical aspects of the relationship versus the faith and trust.
Will this girl support you in not using contraceptives? I kind of assume not, as assuming if you’re sexually active, you guys are using some sort of contraceptive. The Church’s stance is that contraceptives are wrong. If you’re already in this state of sin, it’s going to be hard to break it should you guys get married. I just think there’s a lot you need to pray about with this.
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LongingForLight
Guest
Wow. Switch “male” for “female” and “convert” for “crisis of faith”, and this is my story. I met my DH when I was 19, and questioning my faith. We had an unchaste relationship for a little over 1 year, because he couldn’t believe I loved him if we didn’t have sex. At the end of the year, he saw how much this was hurting me (my faith continued to grow during the interim) and how I was losing confidence in my love for him - just the opposite of the security and commitment he was seeking from a sexual relationship! Basically, I no longer knew if I was “with him” because I loved him, or because I was afraid to return to dating when I was no longer a virgin, but knowing (after the bitterness of experience) that I didn’t want another pre-marital sexual relationship.
This is the third most wonderful thing my husband has done for me (after marrying me, and being an amazing father and husband when our twins were born): He insisted, for my sake, that we discontinue sexual relations. He did so because he was seeing the harm to me and to our relationship, and out of respect for my needs and beliefs he chose to be strong about this (I didn’t have the strength of will). We got engaged a month later, and married a year and a half after that. swoon
So, my $0.02: If she “gives chastity a chance” and “loses interest”, she never really loved you in the first place. It’s possible, in that case, that the hormonal reactions of sex were all that was keeping the relationship going. If your relationship depends on sex now, what will happen when the sex is “not so great” or just can’t happen for health reasons during your marriage? Most marriages have sexual “dead” periods - stress, exhaustion, health, new babies, lots of things can trigger them. It’s normal, and if there is a strong love relationship there then it’s not a big deal. If your relationship depends on sex, though . . . well, that could be a real big problem.
Chastity according to the Catholic understanding in a relationship with an atheist is possible. We’ve been married for 5 years now, using NFP as our only birth control when financial reasons require it, and we are both pretty happy with our sex life (and the rest of our love life).
However, we also talked a lot about sex, religion, how we would raise the children, how we’d discern if we were ready to increase family size, etc., before we got married - or even engaged. My DH understood that I wasn’t willing to comprimise my faith to accomodate his lack of faith, and was willing to take me as I was: Catholic, and by the time we got married, trying very hard to be devout; also, he understood that I wasn’t willing to comprimise my faith for his sake, and that my loyalty to God would come before him. This can be hard for someone who holds the secular belief that you should love nothing and no one more than your true love, unless they can really grasp that by loving God we are able to love our true love on earth more fully.
Note that avoiding contraception once married will probably be more difficult with the woman being atheist and the man being Catholic, unless she already has a strong streak of “crunchy” and prefers to avoid unnatural birth control anyways. NFP is harder for the woman than the man, and no birth control (as Catholics are called to be whenever they lack serious reasons to abstain from relations) is even harder, especially in this day and age. You will need to have some long, hard, honest conversations at some point to determine if the two of you can find a comprimise that you are both comfortable living with after marriage.
Good luck, and I really hope you guys do see how a chaste relationship works for you. For my DH and I, that was when we really started to fall in love. At the same time, what Agusta Sans says is mostly right - Catholic marriages with atheists are intrinsically difficult for Catholics. I don’t find my faith shaken by loving my DH as he is, personally, but there is a loneliness in not being able to pray with him, not being able to share with him the joy I feel when God is sending me His consolations, not being able to completely share with him the pain of feeling far from God when I have sinned. At the same time, my DH reveals God and Christ to me even without having faith of his own through his true unconditional love for me, and ultimately I believe he strengthens and motivates my faith in God.
Pray deeply on this matter, and open your heart to God and Jesus, who is the Wonderful Counselor. He will give you just as much advice as you need to make the right decision, if you listen to Him.
May God bless you and your girlfriend as you discern your relationship together. May His peace be with both of you, wherever your discernment leads you.
Oh, and pardon my wordiness. I never know when to shut my mouth
T
TomKat27
Guest
Thank you all of you and those who gave personal experiences with it too… They have been really invaluable and I will come back and read them often.
I think all I need now is time for it to settle in. I am also consulting my church’s priest on this matter and I will see him tomorrow.
God bless you all.
TK27
I think all I need now is time for it to settle in. I am also consulting my church’s priest on this matter and I will see him tomorrow.
God bless you all.
TK27
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Sierrah
Guest
I would never use contraception because it messes with the natural order of you body not necessarily because of what the church says about it. I don’t have much luck with meds and drugs anyway they usually cause me more problems then they are worth. 
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Contra_Mundum_1
Guest
I’m married and my husband and I follow NFP. I used to be sexually active before marriage and used contaception but would never go back to it again.
Looking for Light, your husband sounds just like mine! Yes, there is that loneliness I also feel (he’s agnostic with occasional moments of something like faith, hmmmm) but I try not to dwell on that too much. I just pray for him and our marriage. I’ll say a prayer for you too.
Looking for Light, your husband sounds just like mine! Yes, there is that loneliness I also feel (he’s agnostic with occasional moments of something like faith, hmmmm) but I try not to dwell on that too much. I just pray for him and our marriage. I’ll say a prayer for you too.
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sonolady06
Guest
I do not think it very fruitful to tell someone their question is bad. That is, unless, you intend to scare them away from God’s household. God designed the human mind to think, not simply to blindly obey. True, obedience to God’s law is of utmost importance. However, understanding the “why” of God’s law is equally necessary.
Also, I have noticed that so many people in this forum are darn near paranoid about what is permitted in the marital bed. Then, others respond with vehement posts on how very few activities are moral. I find this all very strange. Sex is known as the marital embrace, not the marital conference or other such utilitarian encounter. It is my understanding that husband and wife should be Christ for one another and rejoice in the Sacramental union of sex. As long as love is the center of the act and the man climaxes inside the woman, the Church has no qualms with married couples uniquely expressing their love. As for NFP, it is true that couples should prayerfully discern what God’s will for them is in choosing whether to abstain for a time. However, if a couple chooses to abstain and husband and wife remain loving toward one another, who can call their reasons unjust? This period of abstinence is a great challenge for couples. It would take a serious reason for a husband and wife to decide that this is the best course of action.
Also, I have noticed that so many people in this forum are darn near paranoid about what is permitted in the marital bed. Then, others respond with vehement posts on how very few activities are moral. I find this all very strange. Sex is known as the marital embrace, not the marital conference or other such utilitarian encounter. It is my understanding that husband and wife should be Christ for one another and rejoice in the Sacramental union of sex. As long as love is the center of the act and the man climaxes inside the woman, the Church has no qualms with married couples uniquely expressing their love. As for NFP, it is true that couples should prayerfully discern what God’s will for them is in choosing whether to abstain for a time. However, if a couple chooses to abstain and husband and wife remain loving toward one another, who can call their reasons unjust? This period of abstinence is a great challenge for couples. It would take a serious reason for a husband and wife to decide that this is the best course of action.
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newbetx
Guest
I was an idiot. OK, maybe just naive. Definitely ignorant. When I first came here, I thought that what we call “mixed marriages” work out fine, no reason to fret over the “personal differences” associated with different religions. After all, I know many “mixed” couples and they are still married. Then I stumbled upon this thread. and others like it. Countless stories of the pain and agony of not having a “standard set of rules” for raising a family, having sex, using contraception, going to church, and on and on. Proceed, if you must, but understand it will complicate an already complicated relationship (marriage) and your faith development.
Now let me let you on a little secret most don’t know or don’t want to tell. Sex is a drug. Well, it’s actually made to work like one. Like all drugs it’s fine if used appropriately. It will blind you, temporarily, to flaws in your partner. In the relationship development time prior to marriage this is a bad thing. You could end up with the wrong partner, for life. Sex is not a casual event. It is very serious with serious consequences that goes far beyond the possibility of STD’s and pregnancy. It’s nothing like what our culture portrays it as… Our culture lied to us.
To help you understand the significance of sex and marriage, and to help you in your journey to become Catholic I urge you to get “Theology of the Body for Beginners” by Christopher West. There’s a new version out, I think, from Ascension Press. This book goes, step by step through the Church’s teaching on chastity, priesthood, homosexuality and non-marital sex. An excellent and easy read.
Another great book I like is “Real Love” by Mary Beth Bonnaci. It’s not an easy read like CW’s TOB, but it covers a lot of good territory about the importance of chastity, understanding our emotions, and managing our relationships.
Peace to you.
S
sonolady06
Guest
More great literature for such matters:
Holy Sex! by Gregory Popack (easy and informative)
Love and Responsibility by Karol Wojtyla (deep and precise)
Curl up with some cocoa and enjoy!
Holy Sex! by Gregory Popack (easy and informative)
Love and Responsibility by Karol Wojtyla (deep and precise)
Curl up with some cocoa and enjoy!
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ldelangel
Guest
My fiance and I have always felt it would be wrong to live together before we are married. Problem is we would still stay the night at each other’s places and pretend like we were not living together. After we got engaged it suddenly hit me with the weight of guilt that I am fooling myself and I still have a chance in this time before we get married to refrain from cohabiting and physical intimacy.
I have been recording my failings and successes in a blog and would be very grateful to have feedback!
here is the link if you are interested: tryingtowaituntilmarriage.blogspot.com/thanks
el
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