Chastity and the Subconscious

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catholic03

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Pax Christi:

I have been thinking about an issue lately that I am sure people rarely think about but is of great importance. Picture this: a man is wanting to watch a video about a perfectly moral topic on the internet. He searches for a video on the topic and two results come up. The first video is about the relevant topic and is hosted by a male. The second video is about the relevant topic and is hosted by a female. Because the man is naturally attracted to the opposite sex, there is a big chance that he will (unknowingly because it is his subconscious) watch the video by the woman due to his subconscious mind preferring it to the other video hosted by a male, whom he is obviously not attracted to. Suppose the man knows that he may be clicking on the video hosted by the woman due to his subconscious mind being attracted to it. Could that be a sin as he is aware that it may be for such reasons that he clicking on it, reasons that he could not know due to it being in his subconscious. Or, am I being too over the top about chastity?

I am surprised there is not already a thread on this topic…but, it is something to think about.

God Bless.
 
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I would think it would be an issue of self awareness and less of the subconscious.
If watching those videos ignites disordered passions , would be good to turn away.
 
You cannot subconsciously sin. In order to sin you need to have knowledge of what you are doing.

There is no sin in having a preference for an attractive person of the opposite sex; it’s how we are made (setting aside those with SSA). Many of us women have a preference for seeing a movie with a handsome male lead actor, or a preference for listening to songs sung by an attractive male singer.

As long as the preference isn’t leading someone to dwell on thoughts of sex with the presenter, actor, singer, or run and masturbate to their picture or whatever, it’s not a problem.

Do you suffer from scrupulosity at all? Because this question is sounding pretty scrupulous.
 
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As I said at the beginning of my post, you cannot subconsciously sin. If something is in your subconscious then you are not making a free will choice. I have no idea why anyone would think anything going on in the subconscious could be a sin.
 
catholic03 said:
Or, am I being too over the top about chastity?
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Yes, you are. Even if the man consciously preferred the video with the woman because he was attracted to her, that’s not a sin.

You are aware it’s not a sin to experience attraction, right?
 
catholic03 said:
but surely it could be a sin for one to watch that video if they know that the reason why they are watching this video over the other one is because the subconscious mind wants them to due to the host being of the opposite sex.
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Why would that be a sin? That’s the assumption you’re making I can’t get my head around. Men are programmed to enjoy seeing pretty women. Women are hardwired to enjoy seeing handsome guys. Attraction in and of itself isn’t sinful. Now, if it tips over into lust, sure. But attraction is not sinful. It’s the natural process by which men and women are drawn to each other.
 
People do not “know” that they’re subconsciously motivated to do something. The premise makes no sense; once you know what goes on in your subconscious, it’s not your subconscious, it’s your conscious mind.

Also, this whole issue you pose isn’t even a subconscious issue. Just about every person on earth knows consciously that they are hardwired to be attracted to the opposite sex (unless they have SSA and believe that it’s inborn/ hardwired). We further know that TV programs, advertisers, etc put an attractive woman on display largely to get the attention of men watching, and vice versa. The beer ad for example has a gorgeous girl in it because men will look. Man know this. It’s not “subconscious”.
 
catholic03 said:
Perhaps, but how do we understand what is lust and what is not? How could we, as Catholics, define lust.
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I’m sure there are a million catholic articles on lust vs. attraction. It’s a pretty fundamental distinction.

Your whole premise rests on a faulty assumption. Attraction is normal and natural.
 
catholic03 said:
They know that they might have chosen to watch that video because the subconscious mind was inclined towards it due to it being hosted by the opposite sex. However, they also know that they might have chosen that video over the other for no particular reason.
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What I don’t understand is why this is a problem?

I think you’re massively overthinking this and to me it also sounds scrupulous. Be careful not to fall into that trap.
 
catholic03 said:
I do not think this is scrupulosity. I am worried that many do not understand the question because it is quite complicated.
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It’s not that complicated. We understand the question. It’s just very obviously not sinful.
 
catholic03 said:
do not think this is scrupulosity. I am worried that many do not understand the question because it is quite complicated.
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Indeed not. What do you think your question was, rocket science? Or are you just looking for people to agree with you that it’s sinful otherwise they “ didn’t understand the question because it’s complicated”?
 
catholic03 said:
… Suppose the man knows that he may be clicking on the video hosted by the woman due to his subconscious mind being attracted to it. Could that be a sin as he is aware that it may be for such reasons that he clicking on it,…
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We are obliged to avoid the voluntary near occassions of sin (through which we always fall). To avoid requires the use of the will in conjunction with the intelligence (which informs) and that must be conscious.

In social science the term subconscious means without intention, awareness, and conscious guidance. Previously the term subconscious was used by Freud but later replace with unconscious.

Baltimore Catechism No. 3:
Q. 771. What do you mean by the near occasions of sin?
A. By the near occasions of sin I mean all the persons, places and things that may easily lead us into sin.
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Q. 772. Why are we bound to avoid occasions of sin?
A. We are bound to avoid occasions of sin because Our Lord has said: “He who loves the danger will perish in it”; and as we are bound to avoid the loss of our souls, so we are bound to avoid the danger of their loss. The occasion is the cause of sin, and you cannot take away the evil without removing its cause.
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Q. 773. Is a person who is determined to avoid the sin, but who is unwilling to give up its near occasion when it is possible to do so, rightly disposed for confession?
A. A person who is determined to avoid the sin, but who is unwilling to give up its near occasion when it is possible to do so, is not rightly disposed for confession, and he will not be absolved if he makes known to the priest the true state of his conscience.
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Q. 774. How many kinds of occasions of sin are there?
A. There are four kinds of occasions of sin:
1. Near occasions, through which we always fall;
2. Remote occasions, through which we sometimes fall;
3. Voluntary occasions or those we can avoid; and
4. Involuntary occasions or those we cannot avoid. A person who lives in a near and voluntary occasion of sin need not expect forgiveness while he continues in that state.
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Q. 775. What persons, places and things are usually occasions of sin?
A.
1. The persons who are occasions of sin are all those in whose company we sin, whether they be bad of themselves or bad only while in our company, in which case we also become occasions of sin for them;
2. The places are usually liquor saloons, low theaters, indecent dances, entertainments, amusements, exhibitions, and all immoral resorts of any kind, whether we sin in them or not;
3. The things are all bad books, indecent pictures, songs, jokes and the like, even when they are tolerated by public opinion and found in public places.
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