Cheesed off over nothing?

Status
Not open for further replies.
S

Shellac

Guest
Is it wrong for me to be bothered that there is a separet mass for spanish speakers at our parrish? In truth thay could be speeking german for all I care. It just seems to me that as a Catholic camunaty we should be one. We should worship together at the same mass. As it is it is as if we have two direrent camunatys sharring a bilding. 😦 Seems like the two sides never rilly meet. 😦
Heck that was one clear advatage to a laten mass. No mater were in the world you were the mass was the same. So my brothers and sisters any thoughts?
 
40.png
Shellac:
Is it wrong for me to be bothered that there is a separet mass for spanish speakers at our parrish? In truth thay could be speeking german for all I care. It just seems to me that as a Catholic camunaty we should be one. We should worship together at the same mass. As it is it is as if we have two direrent camunatys sharring a bilding. 😦 Seems like the two sides never rilly meet. 😦
Heck that was one clear advatage to a laten mass. No mater were in the world you were the mass was the same. So my brothers and sisters any thoughts?
Say Man,

You must have taken English lessons from Beng!
 
My priests told me once that the separation in our church was not over English-speaking or Spanish-speaking but over which Mass one attended. The solution: rotate which Mass you attend. As we say in Texas,“Se habla espanol.”
 
40.png
Shellac:
Is it wrong for me to be bothered that there is a separet mass for spanish speakers at our parrish? In truth thay could be speeking german for all I care. It just seems to me that as a Catholic camunaty we should be one. We should worship together at the same mass. As it is it is as if we have two direrent camunatys sharring a bilding. 😦 Seems like the two sides never rilly meet. 😦
Heck that was one clear advatage to a laten mass. No mater were in the world you were the mass was the same. So my brothers and sisters any thoughts?
Shellac,

Yes, a thought, or, rather, a question.

If circumstances tomorrow required you to emigrate to Spain, and the local parish offered Mass in English and in Spanish, which would you elect to attend?

Seems to me that maybe your parish needs to schedule some events at which the two sides could meet.

Many years,

Neil
 
I believe Neil made a good point, these people attending a Spanish Mass are usually new, or at least still feel a close tie to their culture. Many speak what is familar in their homes, and their prayer life will also need this. In second and third genrations this will not be necessary, just as German, Croatian, and others in the past.

My brother frequently goes to a Spanish Mass, he spent two years in Columbia, S.A. This weekend the Mass was bi-lingual, parts in English, parts in Spanish. The homily was in English, then repeated in Spanish. He said the Spanish reminds him of the Latin, and he likes that.

Kotton 👍
 
Sometimes it helps to go to a mass in a different language. You know what is going on, because it all happens in the same place anyway, but you can focus on prayer. I wouldn’t do it every week, but it is a nice change.

I would bring along a missal with the readings in English and go for it! You might even build some bridges or learn a little Spanish while you are at it!
 
Reminds me of a time some years back when my wife and I were visiting Tijuana, just driving around south of the main tourist areas, and she spotted a little church with Mass about to start.

Well, nothing would do but that we had to go in. So we stayed for the Mass–in Spanish, of course. After Mass ended, the priest came to the front of the sanctuary and started talking to the people, at great length, it seemed to me. Maybe this was customary. (I whispered to my wife, “probably talking about the two gringos sitting in the back.” When the talk ended, everyone exited the church, and being in the back, we were one of the first ones out. Thinking that her one semester of high school spanish was sufficient for conversation, she began greeting everyone coming out of church. I can’t say that there was a great deal of communication, but everyone was friendly.

JimG
 
A faithful priest in Dallas did just that – he celebrated Mass in Latin and preached in both English and Spanish at the Mass in order to bring his two groups of parishioners closer together.
 
40.png
pnewton:
My priests told me once that the separation in our church was not over English-speaking or Spanish-speaking but over which Mass one attended. The solution: rotate which Mass you attend. As we say in Texas,“Se habla espanol.”
The main problem with this suggestion is that there are so many options that, unless you actually understand the language being used, you really cannot participate in a vernacular mass. If the Mass is being offered in Latin (and I am including the current Missal in this statement), then you could at least try to follow in the Missal. This issue is also being discussed in the thread about the universal indult.
 
40.png
iguana27:
You know what is going on, because it all happens in the same place anyway, but you can focus on prayer.
But, I ask, do you REALLY know what is going on? You suggest to use the Missal, but what opening prayer is the priest using? Which Eucharistic prayer is the congregation following? If you do not know these things, are you really participating in the Mass or are you just offering your independent Mass while sitting with others of the same faith?
 
:confused: If a person is not happy at all with a Spanish Novus Ordo Mass, then the SAME standard must apply with an English Novus Ordo Mass;) . Now, for some pointers regarding language in the Roman Missal. If we look at the Spanish language Roman Missal, we will find that the translation is MORE faithful to the original Latin (I guess because Spanish, Italian, and French all -come from the Latin language).:clapping: On the other hand, when we look at the english language Missal, we will notice that english betrays the original latin not in a small way, but in a rather large -way:bigyikes: . ONE example: when the priest says in english: “The Lord be with you”, and we respond, “and also with you”, what a total deviation!!! The Latin is: “Dominus Vobiscum”, to which the people respond, “Et cum spiritu tuo” the way it is SUPPOSED to be translated in accurate english is: “The Lord be with you”, to which we should be responding, “And with your spirit”. Now, in the actual Spanish Missal the Rubrics have(Spanish) “El Senor este con vosotros” to which the people respond, “y Con tu ESPIRITO”. A great FAITHFUL translation From the latin to the almost identical spanish.

There may be two reasons a person dislikes the spanish Mass, and only ONE of those is valid. First, the UNvalid reason can just be a general dislike of anything Hispanic which is not only an Unvalid reason, but falls in the sin of racism, or cultural superiority. The second reason, and the ONLY valid reason would be: If a Person prefers (out of personal faith reasons) the ALL LATIN Mass, OVER the Novus Ordo Mass. If the latter is the case, then the person most likely then not only personally dislike the Spanish Mass, but ALL NOVUS ORDO (Vernacular) Masses, and then dislikes even MORE the English language Mass for its LACK of Faithfulness to the original Latin Translations (which are many).:nope:
As per things In Spanish in Catholic Parishes in the USA: this is logical, since hispanics (as myself) form the MAJORITY of Catholics in this country, and growing by the day:dancing: . If a particular Pastor, cannot and will not see that in his particular parish then: 1. He is disobedient to the dictates of ALL the US Bishops which have called for greater pastoral care of Hispanics. 2. He is still stuck in the 1950’s 3. He really should consider fast forwarding to the 21st century.:bowdown: That being said, I persoanlly do love the Tridentine Papal Indult Mass in Latin.
Many blessings.
 
40.png
Shellac:
Is it wrong for me to be bothered that there is a separet mass for spanish speakers at our parrish? In truth thay could be speeking german for all I care. It just seems to me that as a Catholic camunaty we should be one. We should worship together at the same mass. As it is it is as if we have two direrent camunatys sharring a bilding. 😦 Seems like the two sides never rilly meet. 😦
Heck that was one clear advatage to a laten mass. No mater were in the world you were the mass was the same. So my brothers and sisters any thoughts?
As you know here in Alta California, many of the Catholic faithful are of Latino origin. Latinos laid the monumental Catholic foundation here beginning in 1769ad with the founding of the Mission San Diego de Alcala.

I certainly don’t see any problem with seperate Masses in Spanish. Ideally all of us would be able to attend Masses in either Latin, English or Spanish while still being able to easily understand everything.

Support the Latino members of your parish. I’ll bet they are by far the most serious and reverent members you have.
 
It is odd, because several white liberals in the church in the US, especially Jesuits, keep on insisting on jamming down a Charismatic style of worship on Hispanics in the US, with all the trappings of liberalism, and Liberation Theology in some dioceses.

On the other hand, people I know who have been to mass in Mexico say the mass there is far more reverent than it is in the typical parish in the US, with altar girls being rare, communion under one specicies, only the ordaining handing out communion, women wearing headcoverings, and even in some cases, an altar rail still being used.
 
I wanted to clarify an earlier post that said that going to a mass of a different language can be a useful ocassional spiritual exercise.

I guess I was not saying that you knew the exact prayers that were being used, but I never follow along with the exact prayers anyway. I was thinking more about following along with the Readings from Scripture.
I don’t want you to think that I would recommend this for EVERY mass. Just as an exercise occasionally.

Generally speaking, the average Catholic who attends mass on a regular basis would know where the agnus dei, sanctus, etc went in a mass without a missal.

They sound neat in other languages, and a mass from a different culture can be a neat experience.

Not, however, something I would do every week 😉

And definitely not something you HAVE to do, just something you might like to do.
 
I have belonged to the same parish for all of my life - 41 years - so have seen a lot of changes here. When I was young - probably up to my early 20’s, there were not many Hispanics in our church. There were Spanish families who had been here for generations but not anyone straight from Mexico. The few recent immigrants probably all attended a smaller mission about 10 miles away. But in the last 20 years, our Hispanic population has grown by leaps and bounds and now our town has 2 Catholic churches and mine is probably about 2/3 Hispanic and 1/3 Anglo. (I am Anglo.) About 5 years ago, I started getting involved more in music ministry and whenever we have a big mass that the whole parish will attend, such as Easter Vigil, it is bilingual. So I started to sing at bilingual mass. Now we have Anglos in our parish who really don’t like bilingual anything and I have even heard people complain that “if they move to our country they should learn to speak English”. Now, I agree, that for their sakes, in order to be successful here, it would be easier for them to speak English and maybe it is something our parish should be addressing by offering English classes. But I believe when it comes to worship, everyone needs to worship in the language they know. I can sing the same song in English and Spanish and it does not mean as much to me to in Spanish because that is not the language of my heart. The words do not touch me in the same way. I am sure it is the same for Spanish speakers. I believe as long as we have such a large population of Hispanics, many of which are older family members who have a much harder time with the language (the younger you are, the easier it is to adapt to a new language), we have an obligation to minister to them also. It would be wonderful if we could all always worship together but practically speaking, it is very hard.

In our church, we also have a growing Philipino population and several families from India. Our Philipino parishioners have a Philipino mass once a month. At one New Year’s Eve mass, we had music in English, Spanish, Tagolog (Philipino language), and Indian. It was very beautiful but of course, would not be practical other than for very special occasions.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top