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BayernAnhaenger
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There’s at least one at St. Stanislaus (ordoantiquus.org/)).
There’s a Polish parish in Milwaukee, St. Max Kolbe.
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There’s a Polish parish in Milwaukee, St. Max Kolbe.
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chicago
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While, I’ll let Bob offer his own explanation, I think that the note is fair in pointing out the significance of the diocese. Most people won’t know much about Joliet, unless it is made clear that(at least a large part of the diocese) is essentially a wealthy area of suburban Chicago with no small amount of Catholics.
Technically (canonically) you actually ARE a parishioner in the geographical area that you live in the Diocese of Joliet, even though you regularly attend elsewhere in Chicago and consider this your parish community, also. (But, then, you knew that.)
It, perhaps, does raise a good question, however. With the concept of “personal parishes” being established for TLM attendees, of which parish does this make them a member and of whose diocese do they fall under jurisdiction if the regular place of attendance is not within their own geographical area?
The situation of Catholics driving into the city and Archdiocese from the western suburbs (Diocese of Joliet) is a very real concern - whether that be for those who like to attend at a place such as Old St. Pat’s (as does John), or those who may want to go to a Latin Mass at St. John Cansius, just over the County border at St. John Vianney, or maybe attend the Opus Dei parish, for instance. It truly is an essential part of this discussion, then, concerning the future of how populations will be ministered to, what kind of effect it will have upon presently established communities, and which ones ought be better served with new Traditional Masses offerred in their area.
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BobP123
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Actually a local priest who took me out to lunch once made a major point of the Joliet diocese being one of the richest in the country. (He is a very good and intelligent man, by the way.) He mentioned all the lawyers and doctors that live out here that contribute to the diocese and he knew my position on the Latin Mass. He simply implied that I was going to meet major resistance if I were to try to stir things up with any mention of the Old Rite here.
That’s the point and that’s all I’m going to say about this priest. He may or may not be in favor of the MP, my guess is that he is, but I don’t know. I need to find him.
This same issue was brought up some time ago when the only TLM in the Joliet area at Holy Cross (now discontinued) had several of us trying to expand it to a weekly basis with rationale such as “the St. John Cantius” people should be coming to Holy Cross. Not only did that not persuade the higher-ups, it further aggravated the situation and made the case for diocese-shopping even stronger. (We have the Rockford diocese on the other side.)So the other dioceses are basically the only outlets left for Joliet TLM people, but I have to admit the numbers (and financing) are not significant when compared to the very strong NO base there.
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John_Higgins
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Nah, Tim, I neither knew that nor agreed with that. My own careful reading of Canon 515 and following indicates nothing of the sort. Further, let me quote Fr. Serpa’s two answers from AAA:
This is certainly germane to the topic because of “personal parishes.” Canon Law states in Can 518 :“When it is expedient, however, personal parishes are to be established determined by reason of the rite, language, or nationality of the Christian faithful of some territory, or even for some other reason.” Certainly that reason could be the TLM. And, after they registered, those parishioners would be members of that parish and see and non their geographical one. The 1983 Canon cleared this up.
Bolding mine.
John
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John_Higgins
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Okay, Bob, I guess your point was actually two. That the people Catholic people out here in the western suburbs are not interested in the TLM and somehow have the money to keep this from happening. I still don’t get it.
The previous bishop out here was said to not be a TLM fan. I don’t know what Bishop Sartain thinks, but I doubt if he felt a Latin Mass needed to be regualrly held in a certain place, he would let money or the threat of it to stop him from serving his people.
John
The previous bishop out here was said to not be a TLM fan. I don’t know what Bishop Sartain thinks, but I doubt if he felt a Latin Mass needed to be regualrly held in a certain place, he would let money or the threat of it to stop him from serving his people.
John
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chicago
Guest
While one is certainly free to go to Mass wherever one likes, technically, one is inherantly a member of one’s georgraphic parish, no matter where they might attend or be registered. Now, it could be argued that were one to register at an “personal” parish, that they are no longer the responsibility of the pastor of the geographic parish, but it could also be argued that they have TWO parishes - one geographic, one personal. Further, if one is simply registered at a parish it does not necessarily mean that they are a member in quite the same way that they would be if there were attended a formally established personal parish. I know people who are registered at several parishes, afterall. Are they formally a member of them all? And are they NOT a member of their geographic parish if they never bothered to register there?
I’m not sure that the canon really did clear things up. If anything, it may have muddied the waters a bit more. (Though, really, is the entire personal parish idea anything new? Obviously, no, as we had many ethnic parishes here in town a century ago.) One pastor commented that the way he reads canon law, he figures that you could legitimately have as many as FIVE parishes! Certainly, the bishop of the parish which you regularly attend would have jurisdiction over it’s functioning. And you’d be accountable as far as your involvement with that parish goes. But does that, ultimately, mean that you are unaccountable to the bishop of the diocese where you reside? I don’t think it does.
Who, ultimately, has jurisdiction over Catholics, then, and for what is perhaps yet unanswered and debateable. Indeed, “parish” (or even diocese) hopping has created a whole new phenomenon and challenge for the Church and a serious question of who is responsible for whom and what.
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OutinChgoburbs
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You are all welcome in Rockford, which might be a drive compared to hopping Metra or a bus. 
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To be fair, I see the next EU/ TLM coming to a certain parish on the west side of Aurora for the Diocese of Rockford. It was tried awhile back at a parish that is also used as a sort of branch office of the diocese. It wasn’t quite the “hit” it was in Rockford proper. The pastor in this parish would probably welcome EU/TLM.
The pastor of the parish in North Aurora would likely see fit to introduce UE/TLM- except he had no kneelers last time I was there, so people are going to have to BYOKP (bring your own knee pads).
It’s only my opinion, but upon observation, I see a TLM congregation eventually forming in Batavia/ Geneva/ St. Charles. Batavia and Geneva have a strong presence of younger, what one would consider more orthodox families at least in outward appearance, with a sprinkling from St. Charles.
You will see things hard pressed in the parts of Aurora that are part of the Diocese of Joliet. I have noticed- partially off-track- that a certain university stopped offering certain diversity studies that had no business in a Catholic university, and that the Religious Studies department is once again the Theology department.
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To be fair, I see the next EU/ TLM coming to a certain parish on the west side of Aurora for the Diocese of Rockford. It was tried awhile back at a parish that is also used as a sort of branch office of the diocese. It wasn’t quite the “hit” it was in Rockford proper. The pastor in this parish would probably welcome EU/TLM.
The pastor of the parish in North Aurora would likely see fit to introduce UE/TLM- except he had no kneelers last time I was there, so people are going to have to BYOKP (bring your own knee pads).
It’s only my opinion, but upon observation, I see a TLM congregation eventually forming in Batavia/ Geneva/ St. Charles. Batavia and Geneva have a strong presence of younger, what one would consider more orthodox families at least in outward appearance, with a sprinkling from St. Charles.
You will see things hard pressed in the parts of Aurora that are part of the Diocese of Joliet. I have noticed- partially off-track- that a certain university stopped offering certain diversity studies that had no business in a Catholic university, and that the Religious Studies department is once again the Theology department.
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BobP123
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Thank you. Rockford has a very healthy TLM community for sure. I heard the bishop put a lot of money into St. Mary’s Oratory and they support it very well. About an hour’s drive for me.You are all welcome in Rockford, which might be a drive compared to hopping Metra or a bus.
There are two other TLMs in the area too, true?
Is there something brewing in Aurora?
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chicago
Guest
I think it is going to be interesting to see whether new “old” Masses make their way into some of the city parishes… particularly along the same general boundary lines (Milwaukee Ave, essentially) as St. John Cansius already exists. Will the Opus Dei parish, St. Mary of the Angels, start one, for example? Will some of the other traditional Polish parishes start one up?
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MFM
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Anyone have a link or know the Mass times for when the Carmelite sisters in Des Plaines have the TLM? I tried masstimes.org and didn’t find it. Also, anybody know the mass times for the Cistercian Fathers of Our Lady Mother of the Church in Willow Springs?
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stbruno
Guest
Where is Christ the King, Sovereign Priest Church in Chicago. Is it located on the southwest side of the city near Evergreen Park?
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MFM
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I’ve never been, but according to this:
institute-christ-king.org/chicagohome.htm
its at 6415 S Woodlawn in Chicago
I’m not familiar with the area, but it looks like its near 64th St and Woodlawn.
institute-christ-king.org/chicagohome.htm
its at 6415 S Woodlawn in Chicago
I’m not familiar with the area, but it looks like its near 64th St and Woodlawn.
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OutinChgoburbs
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Just what I told you.
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MFM
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Thanks Bob. I will try to attend the next one. I had not heard that about Cardinal George, that’s good to know.
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MikeDunphy
Guest
Susan Gorski will be teaching a course in Ecclesiastical Latin in Naperville starting in mid-September. Anyone interested can email her at minima1 (at) worldnet.att.net for more information.
I know a few people have spoken with our pastor about getting a traditional Mass and he in turn is speaking with Bp Sartain, who did allow an indult Mass in his old diocese of Little Rock. God willing, we’ll get a traditional Mass in the Joliet diocese sooner than you expect.
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BobP123
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According to Catholic New World, there is also a 6:30am Mass at the Oratory of Our Lady Mother Church, 8191 S (?) Archer Ave.,Chicago
(Note: There is no S Archer in Chicago. There is a W Archer though.)
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chicago
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Who runs the oratory?
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BobP123
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Guess I’ll have to check it out. First I heard about this myself.
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MFM
Guest
Apparently the Cistercians. From
parishdirectory.archchicago.org/Masses%20in%20other%20lang%20HTML.html
The Oratory of Our Lady Mother of the Church (V,E)
Cistercians - 116 Hilton St
Willow Springs, IL 60480-1697
(708) 467-0436
6:30 a.m.
That’s all I was able to find.
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