Child who refuses to pray

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momof8 said:
I know this is not what has been advised, but I have finally decided that this is a Catholic home, and we pray here - as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.

As my mom put it, it’s not about my ds, it’s about God, and about what we owe to God, and I cannot tolerate a child of mine behaving as though he can be disrespectful to God. It is Lent, and my child is slapping my Savior and his Savior in the face. So without being angry, I told my son just that, that as a member of a Catholic household, he will pray family prayers.

And I will pray and pray for him! (And I will pray that I did the right thing! I will let you know how it goes.)
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I really hope you don’t drive your son completely away from religion. My mother has always followed the course you’ve chosen, and she nearly drove me out of the Church, and has not only driven my sister out of the Church, but has contributed to my sister’s dislike of the Church.

Yes, people are responsible for their own actions, but forcing prayer isn’t helpful. It can make a child feel like the parent is trying to control their mind, which is one of the most depressing feelings in the world, especially since your son seems to be in a position where he doesn’t feel he has control over his life.

Idunno, you have the financial control, you have the ability to make him do what you want, and your intentions seem good, but what you’ve decided may do more harm than good in the long run.
 
momof8 said:
Wow, that was a good time to start praying again!! I am glad you are back to praying. It is hard when someone is a bad example of Christianity, when their promises of prayer sound like they’re making a dig at you.

I know this is not what has been advised, but I have finally decided that this is a Catholic home, and we pray here - as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.

As my mom put it, it’s not about my ds, it’s about God, and about what we owe to God, and I cannot tolerate a child of mine behaving as though he can be disrespectful to God. It is Lent, and my child is slapping my Savior and his Savior in the face. So without being angry, I told my son just that, that as a member of a Catholic household, he will pray family prayers.

And I will pray and pray for him! (And I will pray that I did the right thing! I will let you know how it goes.)
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It’s your house, but I agree with sing – and had much the same experience (except I’m still agnostic). Might I recommend following in St Monica’s footsteps?
 
Possibly if you don’t want this to rub off on the other kids, I might say at 16, you can make the choice. The age is arbitrary, probably all your kids will be funcition differently mentally and spiritually at that age, but it sounds reasonable enough. Could just say to everyone at 16 you have 2 years before becoming an adult on your own, so you get a bit more say in the matter.

I would try to keep God in his life as much as possible. You can be an example, as to show him how God can play an important securing part. I don’t think it’s a good idea to force him to pray, but it is a good idea to not let God get spaced out. He is on his own journey, I might try to draw out what is going on in his mind, and guide him as you can. If he wants to question God, thats ok, just keep the questioning coming and not just throw it to the garbage heap to forget.

As far as I can say, the good thing is if he comes back, you know it wasn’t you, and it was him making the act of faith and not him just playing along.
 
Pray for him. For years I didn’t know how to pray, sure, I rattled off Hail Marys/Our Fathers, but I could never really pray personally. One day, I picked up a copy of *HE and I *which showed me that prayer can be an on-going informal conversation.
What supported me was the prayers of others, years later I could see where they had prayed, and how God had answered.
 
You might need to engage him. As children grow how they put things together gets all the more complex. He is certainly more capable of thinking, why the heck am I doing this and what is it good for, and wanting for more explanation than say a 10 year old, who might just be thinking more concretely.

That might scare you if you don’t know the answers, but guess what you are on the Catholic Answers website. You can ask questions here, no one is going to see it as a burden, ummm actually I think they are quite thankful to get another thing to bite and chew on. He might be able to ask things more complex, but I doubt to the same extent of questions here. More than anything, I think you need to now think of yourself as a Catholic apologist. You do not need to learn everything, but check up as needed. You do not need to know the answers to his questions on the spot, you can say that theses questions are complex, and may not have been what I needed, but tell him “I can search and help you find the answers too.” Know now, you can only do so much, if he is going to have a change of heart it is up to the Holy Spirit. That might be scary to think you only have so much control, but if he does have a true conversion, you can rest assured he is not doing this because you said so, but because he has honestly, independently gave his ‘yes.’ You were graced to know you set the stage for the Holy Spirit to do it’s work.

Also you get the blessing, to grow in your faith too. But remember you do not have to do everything, you have your hands full. He will say lots of stuff, but I think he will respect you and your time, if you take it as you let him go on his journey, but you are there to guide and help find answers.
 
apricot_yogurt said:
Pray for him. For years I didn’t know how to pray, sure, I rattled off Hail Marys/Our Fathers, but I could never really pray personally. One day, I picked up a copy of *HE and I *which showed me that prayer can be an on-going informal conversation.
What supported me was the prayers of others, years later I could see where they had prayed, and how God had answered.
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This is encouraging. As a child, I prayed the way you did, and it is encouraging to have a reminder that such a book or other inspiration will come along when he is ready for it - that is certainly my prayer for him. Thank you for the reminder that my prayers and others’ prayers for him will bear fruit in God’s wonderful way.
 
sing said:
I really hope you don’t drive your son completely away from religion. My mother has always followed the course you’ve chosen, and she nearly drove me out of the Church, and has not only driven my sister out of the Church, but has contributed to my sister’s dislike of the Church.

Yes, people are responsible for their own actions, but forcing prayer isn’t helpful. It can make a child feel like the parent is trying to control their mind, which is one of the most depressing feelings in the world, especially since your son seems to be in a position where he doesn’t feel he has control over his life.

Idunno, you have the financial control, you have the ability to make him do what you want, and your intentions seem good, but what you’ve decided may do more harm than good in the long run.
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Hi Sing,

I have read your story in a thread you started about large families. I can only say that I hope my children don’t feel the same way about me. Maybe they do. I hope not.

I believe that I have made the right choice for my son. Here are a couple of reasons:
  1. My decision was based on the fact that the advice came from my parents. They have managed to raise nine children during the Post Vatican II years and all nine of us are still practicing Catholics - from all that I have seen and heard, this is far from typical for my generation. I credit my father above all with that, because when useful catechesis was nowhere to be found, there was dad at the kitchen table staying up until all hours explaining the faith to us. If he says “It’s not about Stephen, it’s about God and what we owe to God,” then that carries a lot of weight with me. And I had already felt that myself, that darn it all, maybe God hasn’t given you what you asked for (yet), and even though the things you asked for were good things, you do not have the right to say that therefore you owe God nothing. That is childish, and to tolerate childish behavior - is that the way to help him to mature? I wouldn’t accept it on any other matter, does God deserve less from me as a parent?
  2. The “he will rebel if you don’t allow him the freedom to choose” (not quoting you, just quoting the gist of what I’m feeling many have expressed) does seem to make sense, when we’re talking about something that he has to freely choose in the end anyhow. But I have also thought of Dr. Ray, who was asked whether a child should be required to attend certain faith-related functions with the family. There was the concern there, also, that forcing the child to attend the functions would just lead to resentment and to an attitude that as soon as he got out of the house, he would ditch these practices. Dr. Ray didn’t buy that. He said that it is not unreasonable to insist that “there are things this family does and you will join us.” I force my child to do a lot of things - you should have heard him trying to get out of doing the dishes today - and I don’t worry about him growing up and never doing his own dishes because of it.
It could also be said that “If you insist that he show respect to God when he isn’t, then he will rebel by… disrespecting God”. Well, a bit late for that, isn’t it? I will tell you that I insisted he say our fairly small amount of prayers each day, including grace before meals. He tried at first to barely move his lips. I told him that he knew very well that that was not complying, and that he could do better, and that if he didn’t comply there would be consequences (and I suppose as with all things he can go ahead and accept the consequences). I then ran background prayers in my own heart along with family prayers out loud that he would have the respect for me, if not for God, to do as I expected. Thank God, I could hear his voice tonight along with the other children’s. I do not think he is out of the woods, and I respect his need to question and to eventually make the faith his own, but I could not see how allowing his behavior was going to help him or anyone else in the family. I do feel that this was partly directed at me, too, and I don’t think it would have been good if I just said ok, do what you want. If I wouldn’t stand up for what I most believe in, and for what I most care about (the salvation of my children), then what would I stand up for? I am not a “stand up” kind of person, but there are lines that I can’t allow to be crossed. And since his father’s house (where there is much more financial control, as you say) is a materialistic and for all intents and purposes atheistic atmosphere, if he didn’t get the truth from me, where would he get it? It makes me sad to think that I would lose ground when this is the only place where he is going to get any spiritual grounding at all.

I truly appreciate all who have taken the time to send messages of advice and encouragement. You have all helped me to think this through. God bless you all.
 
You can do what you’d like, but let’s just give that what you do was the wrong thing to do, I don’t think it will be a matter that is make or break. Who here older than 25 think that they’ll whole heartedly agree with their stances at 16?

The one thing though, I think is he is going to come unto his own during this time. The answers he is seaking is not the same as when he is younger. You can force him to pray if you think that is best. You’ve got to pick and choose your battles, if you think it’s worth it and worth it for the family in general, go for it. Which is important for him now is your going to have to try to draw out what he is seeking answers for. He might not even be able to pin down what he has a problem with, talking might be able to draw it out. Which reminds me, to pray when you feel nothing, is just fine. To give up might mean you miss your chance at getting what you needed.
 
my mom says I cvan come to god when I need him, I wont be religious every second of my lfe
 
my 15 year old son says that prayer makes no difference, so he will no longer pray
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Crack that nut and you’ll make a lot of head way. How many times did you ask? How safe of an environment have you made for him to reveal his thoughts? There are no magic words to make him talk, so you have to watch for an opening.

Perhaps he is unsure of his reasoning. At 15 he is mostly guarded emotionalism. (All that testosterone, you know.) Reassure him that you won’t be upset.

I’d guess that he prayed heavily for the divorce to go away. It didn’t and so he concludes that prayers don’t work. The “magic formula” was false.

An old priest who had worked with teens for decades told me that he found the best way to make a connection with teens was to reveal similar issues in your own development. Telling them what is “right” isn’t nearly as useful as revealing that you had a similar problem and that it took a longtime to understand what the “right way” meant. Make a connection.

Also, and this is just a personal observation that may or may not apply, the Catholic faith is so rich and so deep that I think it is easy to get caught up in the minutiae. Fasting, prayers, devotions, bible study, Catholic morality, phew. It can be easy for anybody, let alone a student, to lose sight of the bigger picture. With my 15 year old son I have spent a fair amount of time talking about the historical reality of Jesus, God incarnate, and what that means for mankind. If one can comprehend even the tiniest bit of the beauty and wonderment of Jesus as the Lamb of God, it’ll be hard for him to stay off his knees. When I’m losing my way, that’s what I focus on.

You and your family are in my prayers,
 
About all you can do right now is to pray for him.
When my son was about 17 he decided on his own that he did not need to go to mass anymore. This continued thru college and after graduation. To make the story short, he ended up working inNYC. We are from the Chicago area.He is otherwise a great kid and we love him dearly. Anyway he sent me an email saying that he needed a date with Jesus. I sent him a list of Catholic churches I found online. I told him one thing about asking for a date with Jesus, He never says no or maybe later. He since has joined the young adult club at the church.and attends mass.
All this time I and my wife had been praying for his return.
The same with our daughter. She was away for awhile but now she is back.
I don’t know what it is. assertting independence or whatever.
Just hang in there and don’t give up praying for him.
 
Thank you for letting me know your experience, Steve (that is also my son’s name). I know prayer is what will bring my son back, but I must have needed the reminder since I’ve been having a sense that I need to say more rosaries for him. How long was your son away, just so I know not to get discouraged over time!

Thanks again for the encouragement.
 
If he’s like my brother was at 15, he’s half a child, half a man, and as a man he must reason for himself, while as a child he sees things in simple terms. They used to call it “youth” and say the young were full of dreams and brave speeches. Now it’s called “adolescence” and they say it’s full of “rebellion” and “crisis”. Same thing.
He wants to reason for himself, not be manipulated. He may feel prayer is not heard because he prayed for Papa to stay and Papa went away. Does he know of answered prayers? There are plenty here. Reason with him about prayer and its different aims and kinds. Let him know that God cares about us and what we say to Him and ask Him for even when He doesn’t give us what we want. Talk about Papa’s free will. I hope it has some effect.
 
Thank you, strngrnrth. That is wise advice. It is not easy to get this particular child into a talking mood but I try when the chance comes up and hope that he’s listening more than he lets on. At least I can get little seeds in there that the Holy Spirit will be able to work with! I think JPII would agree with you that it is good to let kids this age question - it does make the faith their own, and we certainly don’t have to be afraid that there is NO answer. I will have to be ready for the free will issue - that while we pray for someone, either they will accept God’s grace, and would not have converted without it, or they refuse God’s grace, and don’t convert even though the grace was there for them. I believe that this child will come back to the faith, even if it takes a long time, and that even his father eventually will… which will most likely take a much longer time, but maybe those conversions get the greatest rejoicing of all.
 
momof8 said:
I
So, knowing you can’t force a non-believer to pretend to believe, what do I do?
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Hi there, My sons are both still young boys but I can clearly remember being in that age group and going through difficulties at home and at school and have the following words of advice.

*Don;t be so sure he doesn’t believe. Most young kids feel the need to rebel at something and his something seems to be prayer time. Deep down (thanks to the grounding you have given him) he will still believe. He is testing the matter, mabye backing off from it to get his own opinion of what he really believes. Mabye he is just saying it to act out but does still pray to himself at night? I know I did this. Outwardly I rebelled at religion and everything else and went off the rails a little but what my dear Parents planted in me and what the Church had taught me always stayed with me in some way and I am now a full member of the Catholic Church and yes I’ve started praying again!

*Don’t forget he is still going to Church so that is still great. Mabye if you push the family prayer time issue to much he will just get more angry. He must have a bit of anger in him at the families circumstances.

*Kids that age need a bit of slack, a lot of love as well as discipline and family rules. Mabye a better approach would be to say" I accept that you may not want to say prayers at family time, however I hope, because I know you are an intelligent young man that you will still make time if your life for prayer and give it an honest good try". Mabye encourage him to keep his own spiritual journal. Generally kids that have been giving a good spiritual grounding and plenty of love at home may rebel a little but they also generally come back to the fold and get back to “normal” again. So please do not worry -just pray for him and love him as normal.

Anyway I hope these words helped a little. God Bless
 
momof8 said:
Wow, that was a good time to start praying again!! I am glad you are back to praying. It is hard when someone is a bad example of Christianity, when their promises of prayer sound like they’re making a dig at you.

I know this is not what has been advised, but I have finally decided that this is a Catholic home, and we pray here - as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.

As my mom put it, it’s not about my ds, it’s about God, and about what we owe to God, and I cannot tolerate a child of mine behaving as though he can be disrespectful to God. It is Lent, and my child is slapping my Savior and his Savior in the face. So without being angry, I told my son just that, that as a member of a Catholic household, he will pray family prayers.

And I will pray and pray for him! (And I will pray that I did the right thing! I will let you know how it goes.)
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Mom of 8:

I’m sorry you’re dealing with this - you’re son is hurt and angry, and probably feeling more than a little abandoned, His father (Remember, the closest symbol we have for God is Father) LEFT HIM! Since he can’t express anger at you or his father, guess Who’s left?

My Father was abusive - My brother left the Church and never came back, and it took every trick in God’s toolbox (including using an Ultra-Orthodox Rabbi who lives in Israel) to bring me back…

I learned one thing - God’s MERCY and LOVE are the most powerful tools in His toolbox, and He can take our anger, if we express it. Part of your job is to remind yourself and your children of the Lord’s love and mercy.

I would be grateful that your son is going to daily Mass and receiving our lord - That means he’s still open to God…

Does your parish have a youth and/or young adults group or Bible Study your son can go to? Does your parish have a “youth Mass” where he might be able to “join the band”? One of the things that helped put a hook in me is that I ws active in a youth group/Fellowship when I was a teenager for several years.

Ask if he would go to confession and express this to a priest in the confessional… He may or may not express his sins - The idea is to give him someone else to talk to.

Ask if he would spend an hour in front of our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament telling our Lord his feelings each week - I don’t know if he’s in a position for adoration or what you might think of as prayer, but the Church says that prayer includes ALL conversation with God. Since he’s angry with God, have him tell God why he’s angry and what he wants to see.

I don’t want to say how many times I’ve come in front of the Lord and just wept, cried and screamed… But the Lord honors that just as much as when I go in front of Him and fall on my face in adoration and praise, because I’m still seeking His Face.

Even St. Theresa of Avila was once heard to exclaim, “Lord, you’d have more friends if you did treated the ones you had a little better!” after one messy and muddy pratfall.

Try to be gentle with your son - Remember, “A loving word turns away wrath,” and, “Man’s “righteous” anger does not bring about God’s righteous works.”

Your Brother in Christ, Michael
 
momof8 said:
Hello,

I have received excellent words of advice under the single parenting thread so I am turning to the Forum on this matter.

Due to difficulties in our lives because of my divorce, my 15 year old son says that prayer makes no difference, so he will no longer pray. He will not join in evening prayers with the family, prayer at mealtime, etc. He does attend Mass, including daily Mass when I bring everyone, and receives communion, but will not pray with us. I have told him that even if he feels his prayers are not answered, he still at least owes God thanks for His gifts at mealtimes, but he refuses to join in. In our evening prayers, which include an Act of Contrition, he says it is a lie for him to pray with us.

What is the right response to this? I have spoken with him from several angles, including asking what specifically he has prayed for so that I can help him with anything I can (as, I said, a person can hardly expect to get an answer for prayers for physical healing if he won’t tell a doctor what is wrong). He won’t discuss it with me.

It makes me sad for many reasons, including that his father is one who does not pray. At one point in our divorce we heard “The family that prays together stays together” and my another of my children said “No they don’t.” I answered that their father used to pray with us but then he stopped as he decided he wanted a different life, so the part of the family that did pray together actually did stay together.

But divorce tears a family apart, and my children do in fact have two families now with their father’s remarriage and younger son, and if my son also stops praying… I don’t want him to become less a part of our original family. I am also concerned about the effect of the 15 yo not participating and the younger kids saying that if he doesn’t have to, neither do they.

So, knowing you can’t force a non-believer to pretend to believe, what do I do?
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Try to make him get involved with some parish activities. If they have a youth group, a band, a choir, a volleyball team, I don’t know.
Try to persuade him to volunteer.
I can relate to how he feels.
Rosary praying is too simple for him, he wants more out of prayer, out of life. He’s 15, he wants to put a meaning to everything he does. And at this time of his life, the “meaning” is something he can see or experience NOW.
If he gets involved in some parish activities and volunteer work, it will make him more sensible for other people, it will make him think about what kind of an example he wants to be to his brothers and sisters, and how lucky he is to have a family. Spending time with kids from the parish will have an effect on how he sees the Church and religion - that prayer can be fun, and that sometimes prayer is singing songs and doing a good thing together with the other parishioners.
 
Not believing in prayer is the same as not believing in the Christian God.
This is a serious situation and one that must be dealt with fast and firmly.
I’d say give him examples of how prayer works…
My own first step towards Christ was the visit of a lady who told me “I have been healed in the name of Jesus Christ”. This woman had plain and simple experienced a direct miraculous healing while being prayed over by some simple disciples of Christ in a non-denominational setting. I still remember my own unaware hunger for God coming to the surface … I called my mom: “Mom you GOTTA hear this…” No one ever until that point showed me LIVE christianity… I had grown up with individuals who never talked about Jesus as a living breathing person in our midst… never heard a personal prayer from the heart or heard testimonies of changed lives, seen healing infront of my eyes as well as exorcisms… all these things are signs that God chose to give and follow those that believe… if our young people never see and experience apostolic faith then they think that Christinity is a mind-building on the same level as filosophy or socialism…

Please… make sure your son is around people of great FAITH… take him to places where this faith is witnessed trhough powerful preaching. the Word of God says that its through hearing we come to faith. But many priests have lost the ability to preach people to salvation… so you gotta look for a good one.

Thats my advice … and my own experience… without the testimonies of life altering prayers, conversion, preaching and signs and all the stuff Ive seen, Id still be a rebellious young woman thinking I was above God and could do what I pleased.

God bless 👍
 
Aussie Annie, Michael, Mahalia and GraceDK,

Thank you for your kindness in responding. Your messages sharing your own return to the faith are encouraging.

Aussie Annie, you are right that gentleness will work with him over even “righteous” wrath. Grace and Mahalia, we don’t really have a good youth group around here that I know of but I will pray that I find such a group. I have, though, encouraged him to spend time with a family that I know is a wonderful witness to him. I’ll pray that we find more families like that for him to spend fun time with. In fact, in regard to youth groups and help from unexpected places, it was a Protestant group that kept me close to Jesus in my college years since none of my Catholic friends was still attending Mass. The Protestant friends never talked me into leaving my church for theirs but their faith in Christ and willingness to live for Him were a great witness to me.

There was a day not too long ago when something came up with my son and I said, ok, we need to get you to confession, and he very willingly went. I am grateful to St. Issac Jogues, his Confirmation patron, because it “just so happened” that this occurred on St. Issac’s feast day. Not only that, but the local church that has daily confession is a Jesuit parish that was celebrating a novena in honor of the feast day. How good St. Issac is to be keeping on eye on my son! Such confirmation that the saints in heaven are aware of our struggles and want to help us get to heaven, it is overwhelming to think about.

His struggles continue though but I will take the advice you’ve generously given. I don’t think he’s ready for Adoration but I could be wrong and will invite him to come with me. He recently tried to make the case for a godless method of the origin of the world and he finally said, yes, maybe there are chemicals that always existed on their own and they just happened to come together and create this incredibly complex universe and all of these incredibly complex individuals. I didn’t get a chance to ask how those chemicals created people who can think, and write, and create but we’ll get to that later. He still does not say prayers at night, although he does join us in the room and will lead a decade of the rosary or Divine Mercy chaplet and since both are very powerful prayers, I know they are helpful and pray that they will bear fruit.

Thank you again for your kindness in responding.
 
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