Childish thoughts about evil

[MindOverMatter2]

As a child i use to think that life would be boring without evil, and that we needed some evil to exist in-order for life to be interesting. And i remember that it really did feel that way to me, that evil and turmoil, conflict and war, were apart of what made life worth living, and good was just there to balance it all out so that there wasn’t too much evil. I really did feel repulsed by the idea of no evil existing. When i thought of heaven, I perceived it as being some how restrictive of my freedom and happiness and that it was boring. This also seemed to be a popular idea among many of my child-hood friends.

Why did we think this? Was i an evil child? Is this a common reaction that children have?

 

[inocente]

At the age you thought that, would you say your idea of evil was limited to the naive (such as a dare to steal an apple from a neighbor’s tree, or evil monsters lurking in closets) or did it encompass real evil as you’d think of it today?

I’m not trying to be an amateur psychoanalyst, just asking if all kids have pretend “play-evils” that in some way help prepare us for dealing with the real deal.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

As a child i use to think that life would be boring without evil, and that we needed some evil to exist in-order for life to be interesting. And i remember that it really did feel that way to me, that evil and turmoil, conflict and war, were apart of what made life worth living, and good was just there to balance it all out so that there wasn’t too much evil. I really did feel repulsed by the idea of no evil existing. When i thought of heaven, I perceived it as being some how restrictive of my freedom and happiness and that it was boring. This also seemed to be a popular idea among many of my child-hood friends.

Why did we think this? Was i an evil child? Is this a common reaction that children have?

How do you feel about evil today? Do you still think the world would be boring without evil, and that heaven will be boring?

What sort of evil did you find interesting, and do you still find that kind of evil interesting?

 

[MindOverMatter2]

At the age you thought that, would you say your idea of evil was limited to the naive (such as a dare to steal an apple from a neighbor’s tree, or evil monsters lurking in closets) or did it encompass real evil as you’d think of it today?

I’m not trying to be an amateur psychoanalyst , just asking if kids have pretend “play-evils” that in some way help prepare us for dealing with the real deal.

I just remember finding the idea of violence and war and selfishness very appealing and exciting. I didn’t actually view it as evil. I saw it as good. I appealed to negative role-models and i viewed love and things of the nature as weak and boring. I just couldn’t imagine a world without evil. Of course, i my self never experienced war or extreme violence, and when violence was done to me it was not something i liked. But even in my teens i wanted to be a bad boy. Perhaps there was something of an animalistic aspect to my experiences then. Or perhaps insecurity was the root of it. Perhaps i mistook it for good because i thought some-kind of benefit or security was coming from it. The thrill of the hunt as some would say. I wanted to dominate people and sometimes i hurt people. Perhaps there was some of what you call naivety involved.

 

[inocente]

I just remember finding the idea of violence and war and selfishness very appealing and exciting. I didn’t actually view it as evil. I saw it as good.

You got me wondering about how I felt now. I loved the idea of war and was very disappointed not to live in interesting times. A nice big war with loads of destruction would have been great. Either I’d be a hero and get all the girls, or I’d die a hero and a girl would cry for me, or I’d return from battle as a bad boy with a scar and dark demeanor and girls would swoon over me. There seems to be a theme here.

There’s a difference between evil and violence though. There are still tribes where people live as we all did in the long gone past, where the women collect roots and berries together and look after the kids while the men go off hunting alone or occasionally have to fight invaders and the odd lion or two. Maybe that’s built into us, and boys want that life without knowing it, and it comes out of us in other ways until it’s kind of stamped on by civilization?

 

[ASimon]

When i thought of heaven, I perceived it as being some how restrictive of my freedom and happiness and that it was boring. This also seemed to be a popular idea among many of my child-hood friends.

Why did we think this? Was i an evil child? Is this a common reaction that children have?

For the ones who bother to think it over, I’m sure it is. For kids at least, fun is fun, and boring is boring. The idea of spending an eternity endlessly thanking and praising one’s Creator simply doesn’t sound like a good time. And they have a hard time understanding the idea that many religions preach - that someday, your idea of happiness will run all but completely counter to what it is right now.

I still have that problem. Given a certain choice between heaven and hell, I would choose heaven, but I would be extraordinarily depressed to do so.

 

[Nelka]

I still have that problem. Given a certain choice between heaven and hell, I would choose heaven, but I would be extraordinarily depressed to do so.

Why depressed?

Heaven is better than anything we could possibly have on earth.

 

[ASimon]

Why depressed?

Heaven is better than anything we could possibly have on earth.

Doesn’t sound like it. Endless praise and thanks to my Creator, for doing only what came naturally to Him? Sounds dutiful, to put it nicely. Tertullian actually suggested that one of the joys of heaven was looking down at hell to contemplate the tortures of the damned.

But this is what religion insists. That up is down, black is white, and endless praise and thanks is a wonderful way to spend eternity. For this to be true, all of our individuality would have to be wiped clean.

 

[You]

… and endless praise and thanks is a wonderful way to spend eternity. For this to be true, all of our individuality would have to be wiped clean.

Maybe it depends on your idea of endless praise and thanks… …the Atlantic Salmon probably gives praise and thanks by swimming a thousand miles from the ice cold to a really fast spate river laughing at the otters and herons and jumping a hundred waterfalls to a tiny redd to mate and die…

 

[ASimon]

Maybe it depends on your idea of endless praise and thanks… …the Atlantic Salmon probably gives praise and thanks by swimming a thousand miles from the ice cold to a really fast spate river laughing at the otters and herons and jumping a hundred waterfalls to a tiny redd to mate and die…

I have no idea what you’re talking about, but you’re probably right about the first part - it must depend on whatever is one’s idea of ‘endless praise and thanks.’ I’m applying the same understanding of it to the afterlife as I apply to this life.

 

[You]

I have no idea what you’re talking about, but you’re probably right about the first part - it must depend on whatever is one’s idea of ‘endless praise and thanks.’ I’m applying the same understanding of it to the afterlife as I apply to this life.

You see some people might think that in heaven you have to just pray and pray and give thanks, but even in this world all life gives praise and thanks to Him by their life because thats all they have to give. Its by living in Him that you give praise and thanks. That is, every part of life.
Daniel 3:79
O ye whales, and all that move in the waters, bless the Lord: praise and exalt him above all for ever.

 

[Matrix_Refugee]

I’ve written fanfic from the point of view of some incredibly evil characters (particularly Kazutaka Muraki, from Descendants of Darkness) and it’s given me a lot of insights on the place of evil in the cosmos and why people “turn to the dark side” (in the case of the guy above, it was that he’d been victimized by so many people close to him that he decided to take control of the situation by becoming the one victimizing others, and that he simply gave up or lost the fight with his own inner demons).

Ultimately, we need a certain amount of evil in our world. How can our faith grow stronger if it’s never been tested by doubts or by temptation? Sure, it isn’t fun to deal with it, but if there was nothing to be saved from, how would we know that we’d been saved? How can one really know the light if one has never seen the darkness, or better yet, experienced it?

 

[MindOverMatter2]

How can one really know the light if one has never seen the darkness, or better yet, experienced it?

Yes…this is my feeling on the subject of evil. I agree that knowledge of some of the most important kinds of good have only come at the expense of experiencing great evils or the potentiality of it. Although it may appear paradoxical, it seems to me that most of us would not be good and would not love goodness if it were not for the fact of our pain or suffering or experiencing the suffering of others, because it is in fearing evil that we have come to knowledge of virtue. Perhaps i had an immature understanding of that when i was a child…or maybe not.

By the way, do you write fiction?

 

[tonyrey]

Evil is attractive because it enables us to exercise our power of choice over others. It would be far less attractive if we lived alone on a desert island. We could destroy the animals and vegetation, disfigure the landscape, pollute the water, attempt to make the island uninhabitable but it wouldn’t give the same satisfaction as inflicting pain and anguish on other persons. Of course we could be masochistic, torture ourselves and end up by committing suicide just to prove we are the Devil’s disciples!

When we are confronted with evil in all its hideous reality we are overcome with horror, repugnance and loathing to such an extent that we long for the world to be ruled by love - if we are not unbalanced…

All evil is a form of insanity but it is culpable insanity because no one brought up in a civilised society is utterly amoral at the outset.

 

[MindOverMatter2]

All evil is a form of insanity

This is true.

 

[tonyrey]

This is true.

Am I on the way? >>>>>> +

 

[MindOverMatter2]

Evil is attractive because it enables us to exercise our power of choice over others. It would be far less attractive if we lived alone on a desert island. We could destroy the animals and vegetation, disfigure the landscape, pollute the water, attempt to make the island uninhabitable but it wouldn’t give the same satisfaction as inflicting pain and anguish on other persons. Of course we could be masochistic, torture ourselves and end up by committing suicide just to prove we are the Devil’s disciples!

One could say our attraction to evil could sometimes be the result of us confusing our unconscious desire for the absolute power and security of God with the desire to be God? Because we are not God, and in our implicit atheism we do not understand that we want God, we then express this desire analogously by exerting our power over others; and this is what gives us a false sense of security and spiritual fulfillment.

What do you think? I would say that fits well and makes the best sense of the Christian idea that evil is a perversion of good, when we realize that the desire for power is in fact a good thing when we understand its true purpose.

 

[Arizona_Mike]

As Simone Weil said, “Imaginary evil is romantic and varied; real evil is gloomy, monotonous, barren, boring. Imaginary good is boring; real good is always new, marvelous, intoxicating.”

 

[tonyrey]

Evil is attractive because it enables us to exercise our power of choice over others. It would be far less attractive if we lived alone on a desert island. We could destroy the animals and vegetation, disfigure the landscape, pollute the water, attempt to make the island uninhabitable but it wouldn’t give the same satisfaction as inflicting pain and anguish on other persons. Of course we could be masochistic, torture ourselves and end up by committing suicide just to prove we are the Devil’s disciples!

Your idea certainly corresponds to our belief that we are made in the image of God who has given us the power to reject Him and exist solely for ourselves in “splendid isolation”. It also corresponds to the fact that the lust for power is the main cause of the bloodstained history of humanity and the colossal amount of unnecesssary suffering in the world.

 

[tonyrey]

As Simone Weil said, “Imaginary evil is romantic and varied; real evil is gloomy, monotonous, barren, boring. Imaginary good is boring; real good is always new, marvelous, intoxicating.”

Thank you for that quotation.

Some members of this forum may not know she was a heroic, saintly woman philosopher and mystic who became a Catholic after being brought up as an agnostic.