Children allowed to leave during homily?

[byzgirl]

Hi,

I certainly am familiar with the idea of Catholic churches having ‘crying rooms’, for young children…but am pretty sure that, unlike certain Protestant communities, we do NOT have things like Jr. Church or other activities, during Mass, that would exclude children from it.

Personally, I feel that children are part of the Body of Christ, and should be in the presence of our Lord in the Eucharist (not in another part of the Church, but participating in the Mass with the adults).

My very good friend, a Lutheran, told me of a Catholic church, which she attended once, that either ‘asked’ or ‘allowed’ the children to leave the church, during the priest’s homily, for a 'kid’s activity/sermon (probably NOT given by a priest, obviously)–but which was related to the homily/gospel reading for the day.

The more I thought about it, the more I wondered if this was a Liturgical abuse, and whether or not it is allowed (or an innovation of that particular church’s priest/parish). Again, the more I think about it, the more ‘wrong’ it seems.

I’m now a Byzantine Rite Catholic; but I, personally, have never attended any Latin (or Byzantine Rite) Catholic church where this happened.

Can you tell me what the ‘rules’ are regarding such an ‘idea’. My gut instinct tells me that it may be a ‘destructive’ pattern that should be discontinued. What would you say?

Rachel

 

[Just_Lurking]

See here if you are interested in what the EWTN experts have to say about it.

See here if you are interested in what Jimmy Akin has to say about it.

 

[GemmaRose]

Early 90’s - I was in a parish which had a crying room which was basically for the smallest tots. Children pre-First Communion age left at the Liturgy of the Word and went downstairs for a program run by the DRE and her CCD teachers. (Older children frequently went downstairs also, especially those accompanying younger sibligs.) Readings were from the Children’s Lectionary, and a simple explanation was given of the Readings. After that, there was a simple activity (e.g., coloring a photocopied page of a coloring book about Jesus) until an usher came down to signal “time’s up,” at which point the children went back upstairs to rejoin the Mass right before the Presentation of the Gifts.

I don’t know if the practice was licit or not, but that’s what they did.

 

[Leprechaun268]

Hi,

I certainly am familiar with the idea of Catholic churches having ‘crying rooms’, for young children…but am pretty sure that, unlike certain Protestant communities, we do NOT have things like Jr. Church or other activities, during Mass, that would exclude children from it.

Personally, I feel that children are part of the Body of Christ, and should be in the presence of our Lord in the Eucharist (not in another part of the Church, but participating in the Mass with the adults).

My very good friend, a Lutheran, told me of a Catholic church, which she attended once, that either ‘asked’ or ‘allowed’ the children to leave the church, during the priest’s homily, for a 'kid’s activity/sermon (probably NOT given by a priest, obviously)–but which was related to the homily/gospel reading for the day.

The more I thought about it, the more I wondered if this was a Liturgical abuse, and whether or not it is allowed (or an innovation of that particular church’s priest/parish). Again, the more I think about it, the more ‘wrong’ it seems.

I’m now a Byzantine Rite Catholic; but I, personally, have never attended any Latin (or Byzantine Rite) Catholic church where this happened.

Can you tell me what the ‘rules’ are regarding such an ‘idea’. My gut instinct tells me that it may be a ‘destructive’ pattern that should be discontinued. What would you say?

Rachel

 

[NewUlm1976_2000]

Early 90’s - I was in a parish which had a crying room which was basically for the smallest tots. Children pre-First Communion age left at the Liturgy of the Word and went downstairs for a program run by the DRE and her CCD teachers. (Older children frequently went downstairs also, especially those accompanying younger sibligs.) Readings were from the Children’s Lectionary, and a simple explanation was given of the Readings. After that, there was a simple activity (e.g., coloring a photocopied page of a coloring book about Jesus) until an usher came down to signal “time’s up,” at which point the children went back upstairs to rejoin the Mass right before the Presentation of the Gifts.

I don’t know if the practice was licit or not, but that’s what they did.

I have also seen this at many parishes. It is a good way to keep the readings on a child’s level. It is usually offered if there are enough CCD volunteers there to do it. Sometimes there is a song that is sung as the children are leaving for their session. Sometimes they leave before the First Reading so everything is covered and they come back quietly after the homily from the back to their seats with their parents.

 

[Leprechaun268]

I can remember as a child , before Vatican II, of our Church having a separate homily for the children. It was the same homily as was given to the adults but geared to the children, it was also given by a priest, we had more priest then. I think we got more out of it as children because he used words we could understand.

 

[Lil_M]

At almost every parish I have attended they had this program for kids (generally 4-8 yrs old I think) to go to a “children’s liturgy”, usually leaving before the readings and returning after the gifts were being presented. I remember going when I younger and it was pretty lame. I suppose it cuts down on the restless kids distracting others, OTOH how are they going to learn to sit quietly? Plus when they get back it’s chaos with them squeezing in the pew and talking.

 

[Leprechaun268]

At almost every parish I have attended they had this program for kids (generally 4-8 yrs old I think) to go to a “children’s liturgy”, usually leaving before the readings and returning after the gifts were being presented. I remember going when I younger and it was pretty lame. I suppose it cuts down on the restless kids distracting others, OTOH how are they going to learn to sit quietly? Plus when they get back it’s chaos with them squeezing in the pew and talking.

 

[Belle10]

Early 90’s - I was in a parish which had a crying room which was basically for the smallest tots. Children pre-First Communion age left at the Liturgy of the Word and went downstairs for a program run by the DRE and her CCD teachers. (Older children frequently went downstairs also, especially those accompanying younger sibligs.) Readings were from the Children’s Lectionary, and a simple explanation was given of the Readings. After that, there was a simple activity (e.g., coloring a photocopied page of a coloring book about Jesus) until an usher came down to signal “time’s up,” at which point the children went back upstairs to rejoin the Mass right before the Presentation of the Gifts.

I don’t know if the practice was licit or not, but that’s what they did.

We have this in our church, though my DD is too young to go. I think it’s fine if the parents want their kids to go. It is not mandatory – some kids stay with their families and listen to the priest.

Plus when they get back it’s chaos with them squeezing in the pew and talking.

It’s not in our church but all kids are different I guess!

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Hi,

I certainly am familiar with the idea of Catholic churches having ‘crying rooms’, for young children…but am pretty sure that, unlike certain Protestant communities, we do NOT have things like Jr. Church or other activities, during Mass, that would exclude children from it.

Personally, I feel that children are part of the Body of Christ, and should be in the presence of our Lord in the Eucharist (not in another part of the Church, but participating in the Mass with the adults).

My very good friend, a Lutheran, told me of a Catholic church, which she attended once, that either ‘asked’ or ‘allowed’ the children to leave the church, during the priest’s homily, for a 'kid’s activity/sermon (probably NOT given by a priest, obviously)–but which was related to the homily/gospel reading for the day.

The more I thought about it, the more I wondered if this was a Liturgical abuse, and whether or not it is allowed (or an innovation of that particular church’s priest/parish). Again, the more I think about it, the more ‘wrong’ it seems.

I’m now a Byzantine Rite Catholic; but I, personally, have never attended any Latin (or Byzantine Rite) Catholic church where this happened.

Can you tell me what the ‘rules’ are regarding such an ‘idea’. My gut instinct tells me that it may be a ‘destructive’ pattern that should be discontinued. What would you say?

Rachel

I personally think that those who are not preparing for First Holy Communion could. Those who are or have made their First Communion should not.

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

I can see where this would confuse a Byzatine Catholic, where infants and children receive the Eucharist as a matter of course, having been baptized, confirmed (chrismated), then communed as infants.

Latin infants usually don’t make their First Communions until age 7, and are confirmed sometime between the ages of 7 and 18. It’s called the Age of Reason, at about, but not exactly, age 7.

For people under the age of 7, while the idea of Children’s Liturgy of the Word is good, some parishes execute it better than others. There is no reason, in my opinion, for any child who has made their FHC or is preparing to receive FHC to attend Children’s Liturgy of the Word.

What really irks me is the Children’s Liturgy of the Word is confused by protestants to be the equivalent of “Children’s Church”.

 

[byzgirl]

Jimmy Akin’s explanation was very good. I understand ithe problem to be that some parishes are conducting the Liturgy of the Word for Children, wrongly (without an ‘extra priest’ to give the homily for them). It would make sense that ‘only an ordained priest’ can do so.

I am glad that the Byzantine Rite doesn’t have things like this…as I don’t like it. I think there are too many abuses going on, in general, that are going unchecked. And, sadly, when individual Catholics are made to comply with ‘corrections’, they sometimes get angry and want to ‘leave the church’ over something so silly.

But I must say that I was distrurbed by the news (that Catholic parishes do this)…as it makes it more difficult to make the differences apparent to Protestants who say that Jr. Church and ‘The Liturgy of the Word for Children’ are the same thing.
Why muddy the water anyhow? I never knew about this and had to find out from my good friend (a Lutheran who tends to harbor some annoyance with Catholicism). She was using it to make a point. I felt I was ambushed, as I had never heard of such a thing.

I am NOT a fan of some of these practices (such as holding hands during the Our Father, eucharistic layministers…etc.). It’s leading to a BUNCH of problems and abuses that could be avoided by omitting these innovations.

I don’t want to be accused of having the Protestant version of Jr. Church! Our worship, as Catholics, is centered upon the Eucharistic sacrifice…not good entertainment!

I’m releived that the Byzantine Rite stays clear of such customs. ’

I have never liked the idea of the Protestant’s “Jr. Church” thing… But I do think, in defense of the parishes which conduct ‘Liturgy of the Word for Children’–that, if only temporary (not interfering with the order of the Mass and with a priest)–that it’s not the equivalent of a ‘service for Children’ outside of the adult worship.

See here if you are interested in what the EWTN experts have to say about it.

See here if you are interested in what Jimmy Akin has to say about it.

 

[love4mary]

Oh how I wish they did this at my parish. My 10 year old has a tough time trying to understand the homily. We have a wonderful and highly educated priest who often times uses words and phrases that go completely over the heads of most children. Once when we visited a neighboring parish, they took the children out for the Liturgy of the Word then they returned for the Liturgy of the Eucharist. My son LOVED it. He understood the readings AND the homily so much better.

I know and have heard the many reasons why some folks don’t like this, but for my son, it was a great experience.

 

[byzgirl]

While I really do understand that many people like it, I have to say that I wish that more Catholic parishes would get more involved in youth activities and really freshening up and intensifying our youth eduction in strong Catholic Catechetical, apologetic, and scriptural ‘training’. Secondarily, more social activities and those based on helping others.

I would prefer that to having all sorts of things changed and added to the Liturgy. I think the Liturgy should be sacred and reverent, and not, necessarily, entertaining in the modern way that people expect to be entertained (even children).

If there was MORE for Catholic kids to do, before or after ‘Mass’ OR during the weekdays/evenings and weekends, I think that would be a welcomed thing. We could do a lot more!!! I think we could learn a thing or two (in this area) from our Protestant brethren. And they certainly could learn a thing or two, from us, in regard to what constitutes real worship (being that we have the Eucharist and the fullest sense of worship–being in the actual presence of our Lord!!)

I believe that a lot of these innovations wtihin Roman (Latin Rite) Catholicism has led to problems and can lead, even, into heresy and abuses…if left unrestained and unchecked.

Again, I’m not trying to be negative, and I understand that some kids would, indeed, love it. I’m sure my own would…but I think it’s beside the point. Again, I suggest the idea of outside activities (outside of the Liturgy).

byzgirl

 

[jmcrae]

We also do this at the parish where I’m working. The purpose is to “force” the parents to come to Mass.

Apparently they have tried having it outside of Mass time, and the families don’t come to Mass if the children’s program is outside of Mass time, or if they have no children’s program.

It’s definitely not perfect, but until I come up with an effective way to get the families to come to Mass without it, I don’t feel qualified to criticize it, because the thing is, it seems to be working.

 

[dprewett]

Oh how I wish they did this at my parish. My 10 year old has a tough time trying to understand the homily. We have a wonderful and highly educated priest who often times uses words and phrases that go completely over the heads of most children. Once when we visited a neighboring parish, they took the children out for the Liturgy of the Word then they returned for the Liturgy of the Eucharist. My son LOVED it. He understood the readings AND the homily so much better.

I know and have heard the many reasons why some folks don’t like this, but for my son, it was a great experience.

If your son does not understand then you should explain it to them later. Our church has a charab school for children between 3 and 4 years old. This is not a problem because it does not interfere with Mass. Children older than trhis should stay in Mass with the parents. We belong to a large parish and when they call for the children about 30 go to the front at any given Mass. I teach 5th Grade CCD and some of my students even go. It is becoming a way for kids to not have to sit through Mass. After they leave it becomes a social hour because it is generally only one teacher and 30 kids of all different age. There are only a couple of people at our Parish still really pushing for this and I have noticed that almost nobody is volantering any more. I tink this will eventually die out. My children are 3.5 and 5 years old and sit through Mass every sunday with no problem. Also a nursery is much better than a cry room. I sat in ours once when our first child was born and put him in the nursury after that. You have full families who sit in there and let the older children have the run of the place. This has been my experiance with this and I hope if other Parishes are doing it they have faired better than us.

 

[EasterJoy]

I personally think that those who are not preparing for First Holy Communion could. Those who are or have made their First Communion should not.

I think, rather, the cut-off is whether the child can understand the homily given by the priest or deacon. It shouldn’t be a place to send off kids who wiggle during the Liturgy of the Word.

A “Children’s Liturgy of the Word” should include all the real readings and a real homily, just pitched at the level of children old enough to understand the readings, if the words used are explained, but not old enough to understand a significant amount of a homily intended for adults.

The problem is that the translation used for the Children’s Liturgy of the Word is currently not really translated at a child’s level. I think someone told me that this problem is being addressed, that a lectionary that actually uses a child’s vocabulary, where that is possible, being prepared, so the explanations can focus on the words of our spiritual language that do not have a “child’s version.” I hope this is true.

If the Children’s Liturgy of the Word in your parish doesn’t deliver the Gospel, you have to do it yourself. Whether the child is sitting beside you, understanding next to nothing, or in the Children’s Liturgy of the Word, having next to nothing preached to them…well, I suppose that depends on the extent of “nothing” in each instance. You have to discern that as a parent.

Asking your child what they heard in their “children’s homily” is a good way to do that. Telling them what the adult homily had to say in words they can understand is a good one. Having to listen to a homily knowing that later you’re going to have to be able to make some meaningful report on what was proclaimed is a very good habit, at any age!

 

[GemmaRose]

Jimmy Akin’s explanation was very good. I understand ithe problem to be that some parishes are conducting the Liturgy of the Word for Children, wrongly (without an ‘extra priest’ to give the homily for them). It would make sense that ‘only an ordained priest’ can do so. …

The problem is that there are not enough priests. Many of our parishes have only one priest-pastor. Some consolidated parishes have only one priest-pastor to cover for the two parishes.

The problem is that the translation used for the Children’s Liturgy of the Word is currently not really translated at a child’s level. I think someone told me that this problem is being addressed, that a lectionary that actually uses a child’s vocabulary, where that is possible, being prepared, so the explanations can focus on the words of our spiritual language that do not have a “child’s version.” I hope this is true.

Oh, praise the Lord!!! I worked for years heading the Children’s Mass Committee in a parish where there was no school. All the children of the parish were CCD’d. I would look at the readings in the Children’s Lectionary and the only thing that would go through my head was, “What were they thinking!”

 

[byzgirl]

True, but isn’t it a shame that some parents have to be enticed to come by, in the scheme of things, by such things–when they should be coming because they know and believe that Christ is actually present in the Eucharist!

I think, if they had better youth catechesis, apologetic courses, and scripture studies, as children and teens–they’d be more likely to understand their faith on a deeper level than 'how much their kids are ‘interested’…or, maybe, ‘not bored’.

After all, many Protestant churches are fantastic in the area of keeping everyone happy (they try), and really focus on creating children’s activities of all kinds–yet, they are missing a great and do not have the fullness of faith. So, should we be trying to reach the parents of those ‘bored’ children by giving them ‘fun things’ or should it be a broader goal of reaching our children so that they grow up to be knowledeable parents who would come to church for the Eucharist and because they’re supposed to!!!

 

[GemmaRose]

True, but isn’t it a shame that some parents have to be enticed to come by, in the scheme of things, by such things–when they should be coming because they know and believe that Christ is actually present in the Eucharist!

I think, if they had better youth catechesis, apologetic courses, and scripture studies, as children and teens–they’d be more likely to understand their faith on a deeper level than 'how much their kids are ‘interested’…or, maybe, ‘not bored’.
**Number one, the adults, for the most part, need catechesis, apologetic courses and Scripture studies. Children and teens need it too, since they are the future generation of the Church. But our adults are woefully unchurched.

Number two, a Children’s Liturgy of the Word is still needed, IMHO, because certain priests preach above the level of even adults - the children would never be able to understand. Two examples that I have seen were both theology professors. If you could understand them, they were marvelous… but a child understanding? No way. Also, some homilies are so geared to adults - homilies regarding marriage, morality on the job, etc. The children need a homily geared to their** lives.

After all, many Protestant churches are fantastic in the area of keeping everyone happy (they try), and really focus on creating children’s activities of all kinds–yet, they are missing a great and do not have the fullness of faith. So, should we be trying to reach the parents of those ‘bored’ children by giving them ‘fun things’ or should it be a broader goal of reaching our children so that they grow up to be knowledeable parents who would come to church for the Eucharist and because they’re supposed to!!!