P
Pag_Hingowa
Guest
What are your thoughts on a law that exempts offenders aged 15 to 18 from criminal charges, except if they committed an act knowing it was a crime?
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T
thistle
Guest
Pretty stupid. I also do not believe that 15 - 18 year olds would not know they were committing a crime.What are your thoughts on a law that exempts offenders aged 15 to 18 from criminal charges, except if they committed an act knowing it was a crime?
P
Pfaffenhoffen
Guest
They should be in a correction home.What are your thoughts on a law that exempts offenders aged 15 to 18 from criminal charges, except if they committed an act knowing it was a crime?
P
purplesunshine
Guest
They need help. They also need to be protected since criminals scout children ages 8-15 to commit crimes. Why? Because if they are charged as juvenile they can re-offend and still avoid punishment.
they need love and reform
If youre talking about a kid from a good home who gets in trouble then mandated councelling should be required for the whole family.
they need love and reform
If youre talking about a kid from a good home who gets in trouble then mandated councelling should be required for the whole family.
P
Pag_Hingowa
Guest
Does this mean there’s no such exemption whatsoever?Pretty stupid. I also do not believe that 15 - 18 year olds would not know they were committing a crime.
T
thistle
Guest
If you are asking if every single person who commits a crime knows what they are doing is a crime then the answer is no. However, the vast majority most certainly do.Does this mean there’s no such exemption whatsoever?
J
Joe_Kelley
Guest
I t would seem that there is nothing so good as a couple of horrible examples convicted and serving time to teach the rest what is a crime.
C
cho_pilo
Guest
Oh yeah. The way I understand juvenile law is that if you can rape someone in your youth, it doesn’t carry over to your adult record… unless I misiterpreted the law.I t would seem that there is nothing so good as a couple of horrible examples convicted and serving time to teach the rest what is a crime.
C
cho_pilo
Guest
Oh yeah. The way I understand juvenile law is that if you rape someone in your youth, it doesn’t carry over to your adult record… otherwise I misiterpreted the law.I t would seem that there is nothing so good as a couple of horrible examples convicted and serving time to teach the rest what is a crime.
B
Blossoming
Guest
You are talking about two different things, in a way.
Sin and Catholic addressing of it are different from the law which is dependent on culture, society, locality and that state or country. Laws differ regarding juvenile crime from location to location even in the same country. In the U.S. state laws treat juveniles differently even.
Personally I do not think juveniles should be held accountable in the same way under the eyes of the law as adults. They have no adult rights, cannot sign contracts, enlist in the services, drink or get married. That is because it is assumed that minors have not yet formed the capacity for rational adult judgement and can’t fully grasp the consequences for their actions yet. Also it is assumed that they have parental figures on whom the responsibility for directing their behavior is placed.
I think this falls under ‘render unto Caesar that which is Caesar’s’. Like taxes, justice is a state process, not a religious process. If you don’t like the way juvenile offenders are treated by your state entity, you can work to change it through voting, petitioning, letter-writing and donating to people who strive for change.
Sin and Catholic addressing of it are different from the law which is dependent on culture, society, locality and that state or country. Laws differ regarding juvenile crime from location to location even in the same country. In the U.S. state laws treat juveniles differently even.
Personally I do not think juveniles should be held accountable in the same way under the eyes of the law as adults. They have no adult rights, cannot sign contracts, enlist in the services, drink or get married. That is because it is assumed that minors have not yet formed the capacity for rational adult judgement and can’t fully grasp the consequences for their actions yet. Also it is assumed that they have parental figures on whom the responsibility for directing their behavior is placed.
I think this falls under ‘render unto Caesar that which is Caesar’s’. Like taxes, justice is a state process, not a religious process. If you don’t like the way juvenile offenders are treated by your state entity, you can work to change it through voting, petitioning, letter-writing and donating to people who strive for change.
J
Joe_Kelley
Guest
That is the way I understand it. In a murder case I sat on we only had access to his post-18 record. It was far more than enough.Oh yeah. The way I understand juvenile law is that if you rape someone in your youth, it doesn’t carry over to your adult record… otherwise I misiterpreted the law.
J
Jaypeeto4
Guest
It depends on the “crime.”
If it is a non-violent crime, it still depends on what KIND of non-violent crime.
If it was really malicious, like reaching into a poor elderly womans purse
and stealing her social security check, everybody knows that THAT is a really wicked
and evil thing to do to a helpless old woman. Same with wiping out families’s bank accounts through what is called “phishing” on the Internet, and some teenagers are skilled at such malicious things. In both instances, the youth must return what he took.
I do not believe in putting nonviolent people in “juvenile” halls, jails, or prisons, especially not teenagers. They are targets of the predatory hardened violent criminals in those places, and according to documentaries such as LOCKUP on MSNBC, they are often savagely beaten, raped and stabbed by the violent inmates. They need to be reformed, and ways to bring about such reform need to be discussed at all levels of the body politic. First and foremost, parents should TAKE THEIR KIDS TO CHURCH EVERY SUNDAY and TEACH THEM THE CATECHISM FROM A VERY EARLY AGE.
Just in my parish alone, at “First Communion” time in May, you’ll see over 150 kids show up for first communion, all dressed in their white suits and white dresses, etc., and everybody taking photos all over the church, etc. And then guess what? You NEVER see about 90% of those kids set foot in the Church ever again. Maybe at Christmas or Easter, but regularly? NOPE. That’s a rotten shame.
As for VIOLENT juveniles: rapists, hardened gang-bangers, armed robbers, killers, etc,
society MUST BE protected from these dangerous people. They may be young, but
even at 16, you KNOW it is wrong to ASSAULT an innocent person. They have to be locked up, but even here, you don’t “throw them away.” There need to be many more Church outreach ministries to these juvenile violent offenders, to help (if possible) by God’s grace bring about their CONVERSION to Christ and discipling them to become spirit filled, godly, merciful, peace loving people.
We need organized, nationwide, 24 hour a day Catholic prayer chains for Juvenile
(and all other) Offenders, to bring about their conversion or reconversion and their repentance. They are, for the most part, simply Mortal Sinners who got caught and punished by the state for their mortal sins.
Love to all,
Jaypeeto4
If it is a non-violent crime, it still depends on what KIND of non-violent crime.
If it was really malicious, like reaching into a poor elderly womans purse
and stealing her social security check, everybody knows that THAT is a really wicked
and evil thing to do to a helpless old woman. Same with wiping out families’s bank accounts through what is called “phishing” on the Internet, and some teenagers are skilled at such malicious things. In both instances, the youth must return what he took.
I do not believe in putting nonviolent people in “juvenile” halls, jails, or prisons, especially not teenagers. They are targets of the predatory hardened violent criminals in those places, and according to documentaries such as LOCKUP on MSNBC, they are often savagely beaten, raped and stabbed by the violent inmates. They need to be reformed, and ways to bring about such reform need to be discussed at all levels of the body politic. First and foremost, parents should TAKE THEIR KIDS TO CHURCH EVERY SUNDAY and TEACH THEM THE CATECHISM FROM A VERY EARLY AGE.
Just in my parish alone, at “First Communion” time in May, you’ll see over 150 kids show up for first communion, all dressed in their white suits and white dresses, etc., and everybody taking photos all over the church, etc. And then guess what? You NEVER see about 90% of those kids set foot in the Church ever again. Maybe at Christmas or Easter, but regularly? NOPE. That’s a rotten shame.
As for VIOLENT juveniles: rapists, hardened gang-bangers, armed robbers, killers, etc,
society MUST BE protected from these dangerous people. They may be young, but
even at 16, you KNOW it is wrong to ASSAULT an innocent person. They have to be locked up, but even here, you don’t “throw them away.” There need to be many more Church outreach ministries to these juvenile violent offenders, to help (if possible) by God’s grace bring about their CONVERSION to Christ and discipling them to become spirit filled, godly, merciful, peace loving people.
We need organized, nationwide, 24 hour a day Catholic prayer chains for Juvenile
(and all other) Offenders, to bring about their conversion or reconversion and their repentance. They are, for the most part, simply Mortal Sinners who got caught and punished by the state for their mortal sins.
Love to all,
Jaypeeto4
C
cho_pilo
Guest
Pretty stupid. No–if I’ve managed to unravel your double negative and figure out what you meant. It’s because people of that age are still growing mentally and emotionally, so there is (theoretically) a greater chance of reforming them. Separating them from the adult offenders makes it (theoretically) possible to give them age-appropriate treatment that will allow them to become civilized adults.Pretty stupid. I also do not believe that 15 - 18 year olds would not know they were committing a crime.
Recently it’s been determined that much of what we call “mature behavior,” such as deferred gratification and rational risk analysis and management, is not fully developed until much later, in some cases in the thirties. So it would therefore be just as logical to separate the 19-29 year-olds from the older convicts. Except… the majority of people convicted of crimes are in their 20s. Most of the older convicts have been there since before they turned 30.
J
Just_Lurking
Guest
Mens rea or “guilty mind” (see here) is already a required element for criminal charges, regardless of the age of the offender.What are your thoughts on a law that exempts offenders aged 15 to 18 from criminal charges, except if they committed an act knowing it was a crime?
T
thistle
Guest
Unless someone is mentally impaired they almost certainly know right from wrong once they have reached the age of reason.Pretty stupid. No–if I’ve managed to unravel your double negative and figure out what you meant. It’s because people of that age are still growing mentally and emotionally, so there is (theoretically) a greater chance of reforming them. Separating them from the adult offenders makes it (theoretically) possible to give them age-appropriate treatment that will allow them to become civilized adults.
Recently it’s been determined that much of what we call “mature behavior,” such as deferred gratification and rational risk analysis and management, is not fully developed until much later, in some cases in the thirties. So it would therefore be just as logical to separate the 19-29 year-olds from the older convicts. Except… the majority of people convicted of crimes are in their 20s. Most of the older convicts have been there since before they turned 30.
Now such people may be manipulated or coerced into committing crimes thus reducing culpability as far as mortal sin is concerned but it does not take away the fact that a crime is committed and they know that. What type of punishment or treatment is meted out is a different story but you cannot take an entire age range and exempt them from criminal charges.
J
Jaypeeto4
Guest
It is true that a person at the age of reason usually has a basic knowledge of
right from wrong. Usually, if they were raised in a Christian environment, with thorough
teaching from the catechism on Christian morals and ethics. Many youth, for many decades now, have NOT been raised with such training and educating of conscience.
That’s a shame. Parents who aren’t religious and don’t take their kids to church and teach them catechism and morals, don’t realize the damage they are doing to their kids.
As for crime,
all sin is lawlessness (saith the scriptures), and all lawlessness is,
in fact, crime, to a greater or lesser degree. Deliberate acts of sin
are crimes (even if not recognized by the civil authority as such), and it
is only the Separation of Church and State which has blurred the reality
of the meaning of the two terms. For example, under the Laws of God and Natural Law,
adultery is always, always, always a sin/crime for which the Death Penalty is prescribed.
Frauds or simple stealing, are not nealy as serious, and, biblically, only require repayment of what was stolen with interest, strictly speaking. Yet adulterers, who are under the Divine sentence of Death by execution, are considered Law-abiding citizens and sit on juries sending the less serious sinner, like the welfare queen who steals a few hundred bucks, to prison for 10 years or more. Funny how morals have been reversed in the secular world. How ironic, isn’t it? Those guilty of greater evils are not punished and pass punishment onto those who sins are much less evil by comparison.
Those who sins are much more grievous, which strictly call for execution, death, are shown compassion by all Christians (provided they repent) and no one calls for them to be locked up, despite the fact that their sin destroys entire families, destroys the faith and trust of innocent children devastated by such sins which break up their families, etc., and which wreak havoc on society because of the broken marriages, spouse-suicides, single parent homes, latchkey children who are prey for recruitment into gangs and recruitment by drug dealers, etc. Yet they are regarded as law-abiding citizens. Some of them are cops, prosecutors, judges, sitting in judgment of people whose sins are much less serious than theirs, yet having the chutzpah to pass very harsh sentences on them sometimes. Or on kids who get involved in buying or selling illegal drugs. Truly ironic.
No wonder a lot of kids get in trouble. In many cases, what chance do they have???
Instead of worrying about whether they (the young) are culpable because they have head-knowledge of right from wrong, we should be praying for youth to be evangelized, catechized, and grow up in loving 2 parent homes where they are taught good morals by teaching AND good example. Let’s pray the Rosary and the Divine Mercy for young people and young adults, too, as well as for all people. And take the kids to Mass!!!
Love to all,
Jaypeeto4
right from wrong. Usually, if they were raised in a Christian environment, with thorough
teaching from the catechism on Christian morals and ethics. Many youth, for many decades now, have NOT been raised with such training and educating of conscience.
That’s a shame. Parents who aren’t religious and don’t take their kids to church and teach them catechism and morals, don’t realize the damage they are doing to their kids.
As for crime,
all sin is lawlessness (saith the scriptures), and all lawlessness is,
in fact, crime, to a greater or lesser degree. Deliberate acts of sin
are crimes (even if not recognized by the civil authority as such), and it
is only the Separation of Church and State which has blurred the reality
of the meaning of the two terms. For example, under the Laws of God and Natural Law,
adultery is always, always, always a sin/crime for which the Death Penalty is prescribed.
Frauds or simple stealing, are not nealy as serious, and, biblically, only require repayment of what was stolen with interest, strictly speaking. Yet adulterers, who are under the Divine sentence of Death by execution, are considered Law-abiding citizens and sit on juries sending the less serious sinner, like the welfare queen who steals a few hundred bucks, to prison for 10 years or more. Funny how morals have been reversed in the secular world. How ironic, isn’t it? Those guilty of greater evils are not punished and pass punishment onto those who sins are much less evil by comparison.
Those who sins are much more grievous, which strictly call for execution, death, are shown compassion by all Christians (provided they repent) and no one calls for them to be locked up, despite the fact that their sin destroys entire families, destroys the faith and trust of innocent children devastated by such sins which break up their families, etc., and which wreak havoc on society because of the broken marriages, spouse-suicides, single parent homes, latchkey children who are prey for recruitment into gangs and recruitment by drug dealers, etc. Yet they are regarded as law-abiding citizens. Some of them are cops, prosecutors, judges, sitting in judgment of people whose sins are much less serious than theirs, yet having the chutzpah to pass very harsh sentences on them sometimes. Or on kids who get involved in buying or selling illegal drugs. Truly ironic.
No wonder a lot of kids get in trouble. In many cases, what chance do they have???
Instead of worrying about whether they (the young) are culpable because they have head-knowledge of right from wrong, we should be praying for youth to be evangelized, catechized, and grow up in loving 2 parent homes where they are taught good morals by teaching AND good example. Let’s pray the Rosary and the Divine Mercy for young people and young adults, too, as well as for all people. And take the kids to Mass!!!
Love to all,
Jaypeeto4
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