Children of God are an elect?

[knightbird111]

I heard someone on youtube say

There are two sets of people on this earth, the children of God and the children of the Devil.

The Children of God are a predestined elect group of people. These elect people are given the option to run in the race for salvation, some of the elect take their calling serious, stop sinning and follow Jesus while the rest of the elect ignore their calling, continue on sinning and carry on with their lives and therefore are in the same state as the children of the Devil.

As for the children of the Devil, they are those people who go through life completely oblivious to God but they are predestined to be in this state throughout their whole life.

The youtube video went on to say, not everyone is a child of god however not every child of God is given the gift of salvation. Only a small fragment of God’s elect will actually make it into heaven while the rest of the human race including those of God’s elect who tried but failed the test will end up in eternal damnation, Hell.

What is your take on this?

 

[midori]

Some Protestant denominations believe in that (others would qualify it as “some individuals within some denominations”). I think you tend to find it in the churches with their roots in Calvinistic teachings.

Had an AoG preacher tell my husband (after finding out he was Methodist and I was Catholic), “Too bad everyone from both those made-up religions is going to hell.”

Went to a Baptist uni in undergrad, but it was very Southern Baptist. They drew a distinction between Predestination vs. Foreknowledge, which doesn’t sound like what your guy was talking about.

There are others who believe in predestination to grace, but not predestination to damnation.

And there are going to be others who think that God not only knows which path a particular soul will take, but will also give them a hand in helping them along-- either to heaven or to hell, depending on that soul’s destiny.

And still others believe in a very literal 144,000-only-will-be-saved.

So-- back to your original question. Is it an unheard-of sentiment? No way. But is that particular brand of thought common? It depends in what circles you run around in, but I’d be hesitant to label it as mainstream.

 

[COPLAND_3]

God’s elect are elect because God has the foreknowledge to know how they will use their Free Will. People can be in the state of grace, and their names can be in the “Book of Life” yet still be blotted out of that book by falling out of the state of grace through sin. An example is like you watching a movie that you have seen before, the second time you watch a movie you know who is the good guys, and who the bad ones are, and you know how the end will turn out, who will end as a bad guy and who ends as a good guy. But you also know who may be good for a while and who will turn good or bad. God knows everything, past, present, and future. God can predetermine who will end life in the state of grace, but He does not force them to. In that sense, they are the elect, but only God knows. All we know is that we can be in the state of grace and fall from grace, but we cannot determine whether we are the elect because we have yet to complete our course in life.

So, being in the state of grace does not insure that we are the elect, but dying in the state of grace does. The elect are so because God knows ahead of time who they are by His foreknowledge, which means He does nto force them to follow Him, but He knows whether they will die in the state of grace.

 

[fhansen]

I heard someone on youtube say

There are two sets of people on this earth, the children of God and the children of the Devil.

The Children of God are a predestined elect group of people. These elect people are given the option to run in the race for salvation, some of the elect take their calling serious, stop sinning and follow Jesus while the rest of the elect ignore their calling, continue on sinning and carry on with their lives and therefore are in the same state as the children of the Devil.

As for the children of the Devil, they are those people who go through life completely oblivious to God but they are predestined to be in this state throughout their whole life.

The youtube video went on to say, not everyone is a child of god however not every child of God is given the gift of salvation. Only a small fragment of God’s elect will actually make it into heaven while the rest of the human race including those of God’s elect who tried but failed the test will end up in eternal damnation, Hell.

What is your take on this?

This theology is heavily influenced by Calvinism. The Catholic Church teaches that none are predestined to hell:

1037 God predestines no one to go to hell;620 for this, a willful turning away from God (a mortal sin) is necessary, and persistence in it until the end. In the Eucharistic liturgy and in the daily prayers of her faithful, the Church implores the mercy of God, who does not want “any to perish, but all to come to repentance”:621

 

[Aelred_Minor]

I heard someone on youtube say

There are two sets of people on this earth, the children of God and the children of the Devil.

The Children of God are a predestined elect group of people. These elect people are given the option to run in the race for salvation, some of the elect take their calling serious, stop sinning and follow Jesus while the rest of the elect ignore their calling, continue on sinning and carry on with their lives and therefore are in the same state as the children of the Devil.

As for the children of the Devil, they are those people who go through life completely oblivious to God but they are predestined to be in this state throughout their whole life.

The youtube video went on to say, not everyone is a child of god however not every child of God is given the gift of salvation. Only a small fragment of God’s elect will actually make it into heaven while the rest of the human race including those of God’s elect who tried but failed the test will end up in eternal damnation, Hell.

What is your take on this?

Oh my goodness! Where did you find such nonsense? Oh yeah, YouTube.

This is not even a typical Calvinist position. Honestly I’ve never before seen anyone combine limited atonement with resistible grace (and indeed, resistible predestination, which throws a monkey wrench in the whole idea of predestination).

A typical Calvinist viewpoint would instead be that all those predestined to heaven (the elect) are given intrinsically efficacious grace which always leads them to salvation, while those predestined to hell are not given this grace and therefore go to hell because of their sins.

A Catholic viewpoint, on the other hand, would be that all human beings are given sufficient grace to go to heaven, and it’s up to our own free choices whether we accept that grace or not. If we accept grace to the end (or repent of times we rejected it, and accept it again before our death) then we will be among the elect. If we reject that grace unto final damnation, then we will be among what is called “the reprobate.”

In Catholic usage we only use the word “predestination” with regard to the elect. Thus we say that God predestines the elect to heaven, and simply does not predestine the reprobate at all. Indeed, in Catholic lingo the term “the predestined” is used as just a synonym for “the elect.”

A Calvinist might counter that not predestining someone to heaven logically means passively predestining that person to hell, but that’s simply not the way the word “predestination” is defined in Catholicism. For us, the word implies an active, ordaining decision by God. God specifically wills that the elect enter heaven and so His sovereign decision that a person be among the elect can be called predestination. But God only permits the final damnation of a person, hating it in itself but allowing it to occur for a good reason, and so we feel this does not fit our positive, active concept of predestination.

 

[englishredrose]

My take on this is that one musn’t believe everything that is said on You Tube. Anyone is entitled to opionions and that is what they can be on You Tube…

I do believe that the Devil doesn’t have any children as you have put it but I also not sure where you are coming from when you say the Children of God are an elect? We are all sinners at the end of the day and I don’t see how that makes us elect? Just humble in our love of God. That is my own initial response on what you have posted.

 

[knightbird111]

Well to clarify, the Children of God are those who do not sin. I asked this guy on Youtube something and he told me, how many times did Adam and Eve sin…I told him once.

Basically his message to me was that if you sin once then you are of the devil and cannot be a child of God. Meaning every single temptation must be won over, those who fall into sin just once are of the devil.

This guy is a Christian not Catholic…

This guy told me he went seeking Jesus and not necessarily religion. He said that God is the one who selects who his elect are and they follow him through their obedience to not sinning at all and also by serving God the way God has instructed his elect to serve him. The elect know what to do on a daily basis because God sends them revelation on what he wants them to do.

If the elect are fruitless meaning they stay in sin or they do not work for God after coming to the knowledge of the truth and being saved from bondage to sin, then the lifespan of the that elect person is cut off and they end up in the fire.

He said the Children of the Devil are those who are not of God. These people do not know the ways of God because it was not in the divine plan for God to ever enter their lives…meaning even if the person is super religious, studies the bible is a priest etc…etc…according to this youtube guy, it does not mean he is of the predestined elect.

The predestined elect are those who follow Jesus, they hear his voice and they follow him right to the very end, right to the very last breath and they do not sin at all.

What denomination of Christianity do you think this kind of teaching is from? it is extreme

 

[englishredrose]

you say he said one sin then a child of the devil…

that doesn’t add up because we are all taught that we are all sinners. Jesus died so that our sins are forgiven.

I say that there aren’t any Children belonging to the devil… as God loves us all

Its that simple

 

[englishredrose]

Well to clarify, the Children of God are those who do not sin. I asked this guy on Youtube something and he told me, how many times did Adam and Eve sin…I told him once.

Basically his message to me was that if you sin once then you are of the devil and cannot be a child of God. Meaning every single temptation must be won over, those who fall into sin just once are of the devil.

This guy is a Christian not Catholic…

This guy told me he went seeking Jesus and not necessarily religion. He said that God is the one who selects who his elect are and they follow him through their obedience to not sinning at all and also by serving God the way God has instructed his elect to serve him. The elect know what to do on a daily basis because God sends them revelation on what he wants them to do.

It may just be his own intake on what he has put together. people do this and in a way its good because it shows and warns us what rubbish is out there but sadly people will believe him because they are too vulnerable.

Does he explain how he thinks he is a Christian by the way. We know Christians as believing in Jesus Christ etc but ask him without telling him that bit…
If the elect are fruitless meaning they stay in sin or they do not work for God after coming to the knowledge of the truth and being saved from bondage to sin, then the lifespan of the that elect person is cut off and they end up in the fire.

He said the Children of the Devil are those who are not of God. These people do not know the ways of God because it was not in the divine plan for God to ever enter their lives…meaning even if the person is super religious, studies the bible is a priest etc…etc…according to this youtube guy, it does not mean he is of the predestined elect.

The predestined elect are those who follow Jesus, they hear his voice and they follow him right to the very end, right to the very last breath and they do not sin at all.

What denomination of Christianity do you think this kind of teaching is from? it is extreme

 

[BenedictFTW]

We are all sinners! We, the baptised, believers in Jesus Christ, Son of God, Messiah and Saviour of the world, are Children of God - a people set apart, according to St Paul.

Don’t worry about such heresies. Keep your faith in Our Blessed Lord, go to confession every time you commit even the smallest sin, keep the Commandments and DO NOT WORRY! Jesus will save you. Oh, and don’t forget, do a good deed every day.

 

[knightbird111]

The guy on youtube said something that you get many who will mope and say “well, we are all sinners you know”…according to him, no…a child of God does not sin, he might make mistakes, he might run into trouble but he does not sin.

the one who sins does not know God and if he told you he does then he is a liar.

He said, one sin just one sin is all that it took for Adam to be separated from God forever.

He said, it is possible to overcome sin 100% not on our own but through the guidance of the holy spirit.

He said if you sin, do not bother praying because God will not come close to you the same as one would not come close to a filthy trash pile.

 

[BenedictFTW]

The guy on youtube said something that you get many who will mope and say “well, we are all sinners you know”…according to him, no…a child of God does not sin, he might make mistakes, he might run into trouble but he does not sin.

the one who sins does not know God and if he told you he does then he is a liar.

He said, one sin just one sin is all that it took for Adam to be separated from God forever.

He said, it is possible to overcome sin 100% not on our own but through the guidance of the holy spirit.

He said if you sin, do not bother praying because God will not come close to you the same as one would not come close to a filthy trash pile.

This goes against the teachings of Jesus as well as the Catholic Church. Jesus told the woman being stoned, having been found guilty of adultery “Where are those who would condemn you?” He then said “Then I do not condemn you. Go and sin no more!” There is always forgiveness for sin, especially in the Catholic Church with our confessionals, until the day we die. All we have to do is repent and believe that Jesus Christ is Lord. Jesus says “If you love Me, then keep my Commandments!” Peace

 

[fhansen]

The guy on youtube said something that you get many who will mope and say “well, we are all sinners you know”…according to him, no…a child of God does not sin, he might make mistakes, he might run into trouble but he does not sin.

the one who sins does not know God and if he told you he does then he is a liar.

He said, one sin just one sin is all that it took for Adam to be separated from God forever.

He said, it is possible to overcome sin 100% not on our own but through the guidance of the holy spirit.

He said if you sin, do not bother praying because God will not come close to you the same as one would not come close to a filthy trash pile.

Make mistakes but not sin? Sounds like a profound misunderstanding of sin-or a profoundly naive attempt to make excuses for it. We’re either holy or we’re not. But the CC does agree that holiness is required and that this is impossible without the Holy Spirit operative within us.

But in Catholcism, we’re not saved with an all at once born again event-justication is generally a process, whereby sin is overcome through struggle and so holiness is obtained over time, with the help of God’s grace and patience in doing a work within us. Anyway, the fellow’s theology sounds like sort of a mish-mash of various doctrines.

It’s funny how the different approaches regarding the necessity of holiness works. Some Protestant theologies insist that man can never be sinless, and that our righteousness can only be imputed-the righteousness of Christ covering us so that we’re considered righteous only in a legal sense but still sinners practically speaking. Others acknowledge that God’s purpose is to make us truly righteous, but, by maintaining a once saved always saved position they must make excuses for the apparent unrighteousenss in us when we appear to sin. Still others assert that one can know with certainty that they’re numbered among the elect and that no amount of sin could compromise that fact.

 

[knightbird111]

What is the difference between Christianity and Catholicism?

 

[BenedictFTW]

What is the difference between Christianity and Catholicism?

Catholics are the original and authentic Christians. The term ‘Christianity’ has been used to describe all of the denominations of the Protestant Church.

 

[fhansen]

What is the difference between Christianity and Catholicism?

Catholicism is Christianity.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

The guy on youtube said something that you get many who will mope and say “well, we are all sinners you know”…according to him, no…a child of God does not sin, he might make mistakes, he might run into trouble but he does not sin.

the one who sins does not know God and if he told you he does then he is a liar.

He said, one sin just one sin is all that it took for Adam to be separated from God forever.

He said, it is possible to overcome sin 100% not on our own but through the guidance of the holy spirit.

He said if you sin, do not bother praying because God will not come close to you the same as one would not come close to a filthy trash pile.

This guy is a Calvinist. Here are their 5 points (also called Tulip):

T
Total hereditary depravity
babies inherit the sin of Adam and are totally depraved and therefore unable to respond to the gospel message of Christ.

U
Unconditional election
(or predestination) God had a master list of those who will be saved and those who will go to hell before creation in Gen 1:1. The list is unchangeable.

L
Limited atonement
Christ did not die for all men but only those on the “saved list”

I
Irresistible grace
God sends the Holy Spirit only those on the saved list which removes their depraved nature inherited from Adam and creates within them a saving faith in Christ. The Holy Spirit thereafter guides them directly to understand and correctly interpret the Bible.

P
Perseverance of the saints
A child of God once saved, cannot be lost.

These are NOT accepted by the Catholic Church, in fact, the Catholic Church refutes them.

 

[Aelred_Minor]

This guy is a Calvinist. Here are their 5 points (also called Tulip):

T
Total hereditary depravity
babies inherit the sin of Adam and are totally depraved and therefore unable to respond to the gospel message of Christ.

U
Unconditional election
(or predestination) God had a master list of those who will be saved and those who will go to hell before creation in Gen 1:1. The list is unchangeable.

L
Limited atonement
Christ did not die for all men but only those on the “saved list”

I
Irresistible grace
God sends the Holy Spirit only those on the saved list which removes their depraved nature inherited from Adam and creates within them a saving faith in Christ. The Holy Spirit thereafter guides them directly to understand and correctly interpret the Bible.

P
Perseverance of the saints
A child of God once saved, cannot be lost.

These are NOT accepted by the Catholic Church, in fact, the Catholic Church refutes them.

The views described by knightbird111 about this YouTube poster do not fit this TULIP formula. Note that he believes not all the elect make it to heaven, for example. He seems to be combining Limited Atonement with Resistable Grace and denial of Perseverance of the Saints. Also evidently he takes the view that once fallen from grace one can never regain the state of grace. Sounds more like Classical (as opposed to Wesleyan) Arminianism, but with Limited Atonement and a strange definition of sin.

As for these points of TULIP not being accepted by the Church, that’s a bit of an overly broad statement. I recommend reading this old This Rock article if you are interested in the subject:

archive.catholic.com/thisrock/1993/9309fea1.asp