Children's Liturgy of the Word (pulling out of Mass)

[commenter]

The candles are for the reading of the Gospel next to the ambo. Candles on the altar are different.
I’m sure the meaning of the candles was because the WORD was being proclaimed. All of the pastors I have worked with in Catholic schools and parishes have really not liked the Children’s Lectionary.
Having said this, I think what you encountered was probably really off the mark.

Candles on the altar are required. Candles elsewhere are discretionary, to my knowledge.
In some parishes they actually have red vigil candles permanently lit by the lectionary table (I almost wrote lectionary altar). In fact some churches moved the Blessed Sacrament from the center of the Altar, to the right front of the church, so it would be no more prominent than the Lectionary on the left front. (Thankfully the trend is now moving the other way).

In my parish a few years ago the altar server would light candles on either side of the lectern during the readings; when the readings were done, they would extinguish those candles, and light candles for the altar. I understand where they were coming from. After 1965, people felt Catholics were over emphasizing the Blessed Sacrament, and neglecting Scripture. In any event, we live in a totally different world now where the Consecration, the Real Presence, Transubstantiation, etc are disbelieved or totally unfamiliar to many Catholics. Well meaning innovations need to be reconsidered.

In our parish the new pastor returned the crucifix over the altar, the bells, and the overall focus on the Consecration as the heart of the Mass. He eliminated lighting candles for the readings. I think Liturgy of the Word for Children, the way it was done before, yanking kids out of a real Mass and then returning them, created one more ambiguity; they need focus instead.

 

[pianistclare]

Candles on the altar are required. Candles elsewhere are discretionary, to my knowledge.
In some parishes they actually have red vigil candles permanently lit by the lectionary table. In fact some churches moved the Blessed Sacrament from the center of the Altar, to the right front of the church, so it would be equally prominent with the Lectionary. (Thankfully the trend is now moving the other way).

In my parish a few years ago the altar server would light candles on either side of the lectern during the readings; when the readings were done, they would extinguish those candles, and light candles for the altar. I understand where they were coming from. After 1965, people felt Catholics were over emphasizing the Blessed Sacrament, and neglecting Scripture. In any event, we live in a totally different world now where the Consecration, the Real Presence, Transubstantiation, etc are disbelieved or totally unfamiliar to many Catholics. Well meaning innovations need to be reconsidered.

In our parish the new pastor returned the crucifix over the altar, the bells, and the overall focus on the Consecration as the heart of the Mass. He eliminated lighting candles for the readings. I think Liturgy of the Word for Children, the way it was done before, yanking kids out of a real Mass and then returning them, created one more ambiguity; they need focus instead.

Nowhere did I say candles were optional, now did I?
I only said that where people read the WORD, they light candles.

Honestly.

Sorry you had so much trouble in your parish, But I never questioned anything you were talking about. Nor am I advocating anything.

 

[Giggly_Giraffe]

It sounds like you have a natural talent in the Literagy of the Word.

I am a volunteer to facilitate the Children’s Liturgy of the Word at our parish. Yes, you are absolutely correct, the program (I think approved by USSB) does specifically request a Priest/Deacon to read the Gosspel and give a short homily. The program also calls for the Liturgy of the word to parallel the Liturgy of the word in Mass. This means that the children should be dismissed before the first reading and return after the Creed (to be with family during transubstantiation). Now, I could see how this could be confused with the adult Catacumins who leave after the homily. ( fatherpatrick.wordpress.com/2008/06/14/dismissal-of-the-catechumens-more-on-part-v-of-the-series/ ) During this program we (our parish) sings a song, does the readings, I give the homily prepared by an approved publisher, we say the prayers of the faithful, creed, and the children get back during the collection. Currently, we (the facilitators) read the Gospel; which I have questioned in my heart. I understand there is a shortage of Priests/Deacons but I would like this program to follow its design.

Now, facilitators can be a man or a woman. Our Religious Education Specialist asks that we volunteer two Sundays a month. However, she is constantly sending out plea’s for volunteer’s and often takes up the Liturgy herself. Might I suggest that since you seem to have a natural talent in the Liturgy that you pray about contacting the religious education organizer and touch base on your concerns and how you may be available to give of your time and talent; God only asks for 10%. This may be God’s way of inviting you to Use the gifts he has bestowed upon you and your family. There is a shortage of men in many places including church. You have the power to give to another child who does not have a strong father figure God’s wisdom. It sounds as if your family is quite blessed with your leadership and how much does your parish community need these at this time?

Again, please pray about it.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

Our church just started a Children’s Liturgy of the Word where, after the Creed, a woman takes the children into the Chapel, reads a “children’s version” of the readings (including the Gospel), and then talks with them about the readings.

Is this liturgically correct?

I am not sending my son (7 years old) to this for a number of reasons (I’ll list them at towards the end), but I’m getting some criticism from some parishioners as to why I am not letting him go. I plainly stated my reasons, but they think I’m nuts for not letting him go. To be perfectly honest, I don’t necessarily care what others say about how we chose to raise our family, but I’m curious as to if this is an appropriate thing to do at Church.

One final question, I found out that the woman who is leading this has the kids stand during Gospel. This may sounds like a silly question … but is that ok to do? In my humble opinion, that sounds like the proclaiming of the Gospel, which can only be done by a Deacon or Priest … correct?

I appreciate you taking the time to read through this and offer any answers you have.

Here are my top reasons why I don’t want my son to participate in this:

1. I believe Mass should be celebrated together as a family … and be full participants in the Mass.
2. We have taught my son how to properly behave in church (including knowing the reverent positions and why), I like him to continue to honor this.
3. As a family, we talk about Fr.'s homily and other things that went on at Mass … if he was not there with us for that, we would not be able to have these conversations.
4. We read the readings together as a family ahead of time and talk about them, so he does not need a children’s version to help him understand/pay attention better.

God Bless!!!

Our church was going to do this, but it hasn’t happened so I don’t know what’s up. I think it’s fine to have the kids in church the whole time.

 

[Giggly_Giraffe]

Our church was going to do this, but it hasn’t happened so I don’t know what’s up. I think it’s fine to have the kids in church the whole time.

Our religious education organizer promotes that it is a gift to the parents to help them listen more attentively to the readings and homily, and allow the much needed safe separation/return that children need to grow up. When I am not a facilitator, this sometimes is the only time I get to sit in peace next to my husband. Sometimes I find myself resting my head on his shoulder like when we were courting and newly married. . It is a gift indeed to be with God and my husband with a little peace and quiet. Also knowing my children have God stooping down to reach them as children and not adults.

 

[Cat]

I’m in agreement with this post. Although I very much understand WHY parishes are doing it, I think that it really undermines the whole point of mass. The Liturgy of the Word is for EVERYONE not just adults.

So what you’re telling me is that young children listen intently to the readings, even if they are read by someone who doesn’t speak the vernacular well, or doesn’t use the microphone correctly, or who didn’t review the reading in advance and stumbles through.

And you’re also telling me that the young children understand what they are hearing and are capable of applying it to their lives.

I don’t buy it. I think that children deserve to be treated as children, not as miniature adults. If a parent explains the readings in advance or after the Mass, that’s great and it’s definitely the ideal.

But I don’t think I’m far off to say that many of the parents sitting in Mass haven’t a clue about the readings themselves, and it’s no wonder that our Catholic children grow up un-catechized and easy prey for the Evangelical Protestant kids who grow up in AWANA’s and did Bible quizzing on the weekends and have likely read the entire Bible through at least twice by the time they are in middle school.

Again, if the parents are truly capable of taking charge of their children’s “Mass Education,” that’s so wonderful. But I think that parents who recognize their own inadequacies and send their dear children off to a Children’s Liturgy should be highly commended.

 

[LightBound]

Having a separate Children’s Liturgy of the Word might make it easier for priests to give homilies on hard-hitting topics such as the one that seemed to cause controversy in this thread:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=939493

 

[nursemom6]

I have been ag my current parish for 5 years. There has never been Children’s Liturgy of the Word, but one of our Sunday morning Masses is considered a “Children’s Mass”. The priest walks down the aisle and invites all of the children who wish to sit up front. He preaches his homily to the children. He will ask the children questions and engage them. His overall message is suitable for everyone but is more “child friendly”. The rest of the Mass is conducted as usual and children remain with their families. This Mass also is directly before the Children’s Faith Formation classes.

 

[commenter]

Our religious education organizer promotes that it is a gift to the parents to help them listen more attentively to the readings and homily, and allow the much needed safe separation/return that children need to grow up. When I am not a facilitator, this sometimes is the only time I get to sit in peace next to my husband. Sometimes I find myself resting my head on his shoulder like when we were courting and newly married. . It is a gift indeed to be with God and my husband with a little peace and **quiet. ** Also knowing my children have God stooping down to reach them as children and not adults.

At this rate there might be another smilie or two at the bottom of your posts’ signature in years to come.

 

[MickeyM927]

Thank you all so much for the fantastic words of wisdom! …and holy cats - I can’t believe I misspoke! The children are taken out after the Gloria and brought back DURING the Creed! I am so sorry for that bit of confusion!

Once again … thank you for taking the time to comment and for sharing your experiences!

Have a blessed Lenten season!!
God Bless,
Michele

 

[pianistclare]

So what you’re telling me is that young children listen intently to the readings, even if they are read by someone who doesn’t speak the vernacular well, or doesn’t use the microphone correctly, or who didn’t review the reading in advance and stumbles through.

And you’re also telling me that the young children understand what they are hearing and are capable of applying it to their lives.

I don’t buy it. I think that children deserve to be treated as children, not as miniature adults. If a parent explains the readings in advance or after the Mass, that’s great and it’s definitely the ideal.

But I don’t think I’m far off to say that many of the parents sitting in Mass haven’t a clue about the readings themselves, and it’s no wonder that our Catholic children grow up un-catechized and easy prey for the Evangelical Protestant kids who grow up in AWANA’s and did Bible quizzing on the weekends and have likely read the entire Bible through at least twice by the time they are in middle school.

Again, if the parents are truly capable of taking charge of their children’s “Mass Education,” that’s so wonderful. But I think that parents who recognize their own inadequacies and send their dear children off to a Children’s Liturgy should be highly commended.

Well, that would not hold up by virtue of the millions of cradle Catholics that grew up in Mass.
Children also do not deserve to be treated as simple minded. No one expects children to be master theologians. But these programs while well intentioned, are often “facilitated” by people who really don’t know what they are doing.
I know, I’ve seen it. Not pretty.

 

[commenter]

I have been ag my current parish for 5 years. There has never been Children’s Liturgy of the Word, but one of our Sunday morning Masses is considered a “Children’s Mass”. The priest walks down the aisle and invites all of the children who wish to sit up front. He preaches his homily to the children. He will ask the children questions and engage them. His overall message is suitable for everyone but is more “child friendly”. The rest of the Mass is conducted as usual and children remain with their families. This Mass also is directly before the Children’s Faith Formation classes.

This is what was done years ago in many parishes, including mine. It’s great. I think one reason it is scarce in my diocese now is the priest shortage. It’s harder on families schedules, and families sadly also have more commitments. Ideally there should be some times when the pastor can address a congregation without children. I am thinking about some things like abortion or same sex marriage here.

In my parish we ended the Children Liturgy of the Word because we weren’t getting children any more. I still have mixed feelings about it in hindsight. Many positives, it was incorporated with the childrens choir we formerly had. I just wish it could have been done during some other time besides Sunday Mass. I used to lead once or twice a month.

 

[Cat]

Well, that would not hold up by virtue of the millions of cradle Catholics that grew up in Mass.
Children also do not deserve to be treated as simple minded. No one expects children to be master theologians. But these programs while well intentioned, are often “facilitated” by people who really don’t know what they are doing.
I know, I’ve seen it. Not pretty.

Yes, and many cradle Catholics who grew up in Mass no longer attend Mass and if asked, let it be known in no uncertain terms that they have no intention of ever returning to Mass.

Of course children do not deserve to be treated as simple-minded. But they shouldn’t be treated as adults, either, especially when they are very young.

It’s too bad that the programs are facilitated by people who don’t know what they are doing. But God honors willingness. If people don’t know what they are doing, but are good role models for the children and obviously love the children, the children will take away much good from the sessions. Sometimes the best teaching is done by who a person is, not by the lesson that they teach.

 

[pianistclare]

Yes, and many cradle Catholics who grew up in Mass no longer attend Mass and if asked, let it be known in no uncertain terms that they have no intention of ever returning to Mass.

Of course children do not deserve to be treated as simple-minded. But they shouldn’t be treated as adults, either, especially when they are very young.

It’s too bad that the programs are facilitated by people who don’t know what they are doing. But God honors willingness. If people don’t know what they are doing, but are good role models for the children and obviously love the children, the children will take away much good from the sessions. Sometimes the best teaching is done by who a person is, not by the lesson that they teach.

A good catechist that is knowledgeable and faithful is worth their weight in gold.
Mass is not just a place where we get together to feel good about ourselves. It’s a Sacrament. Can’t easily replace that. Likewise the Word can be understood by people of all cultures, and people of every age. That’s what the homily is about.
It’s not necessary for the children to understand everything all at once. That’s why we have them wait until the age of reason to receive Holy Communion. But once we start making exceptions for them, they come to expect to be entertained. Never a good idea.
People who leave the church do so because they don’t WANT to live up to the Church’s commandments and standards. Blaming “a boring service” is just an excuse.

 

[underacloud]

I think children’s liturgy can be great (or not, depending on how it is implemented of course). We have it at our parish and I’m happy for my children to be involved.

Some priests have a great talent for running a children’s mass in a way that is very engaging for the children. Many more priests do not, and I think a children’s liturgy is a better option for many parishes.

I think it helps children learn about God in a more tailored setting, geared towards their age and understanding. And it helps parents by freeing us up to be able to listen to the readings and homily without trying to keep our children from doing, well, whatever children are prone to do (note: it is typically not to sit still and quietly for the duration of mass).

To expect too much of children too young I believe may lead to adults who don’t go to mass because they found it to be a boring chore when they were young.

 

[Gordon_Sims]

We have the CLOW at our parish but we very seldom attend the Mass where they do it. I know the kids get excited about it, but it’s more because they get to go sit with their friends for a portion of the Mass. They don’t tend to pick up on the Gospel any more than when they sit with us. I know the people who do it at our parish do a great job, but it’s not something I see as necessary. Some families love it while others won’t let their kids attend. I’d rather see more regular faith-based activities for the kids outside of Mass.

 

[Cat]

We have the CLOW at our parish but we very seldom attend the Mass where they do it. I know the kids get excited about it, but it’s more because they get to go sit with their friends for a portion of the Mass. They don’t tend to pick up on the Gospel any more than when they sit with us. I know the people who do it at our parish do a great job, but it’s not something I see as necessary. Some families love it while others won’t let their kids attend. I’d rather see more regular faith-based activities for the kids outside of Mass.

I agree with you about the faith-based activities for kids outside of Mass (I’m a huge proponent of “club ministries” for children), but the problem is, everyone is so busy and so few people attend. It’s not a priority for Catholics. Even in Protestant churches, attendance at many of the mid-week children’s ministries (clubs) has dropped because so many kids are involved in sports, arts, or just doing lots and lots of homework. Or, sadly, many parents are happy to just let their kids stay home and watch TV/play video games and not be involved with a lot of activities that force the parents to drive somewhere or pay a little fee.

There are a few great families where the parents really do schedule all kinds of wonderful family activities and therefore don’t have time for extra-Mass children’s activities. But I think that these families are rare these days. I think a lot of families just barrel along from day to day with very little planning, and all of a sudden, the child is 16 and getting a drivers’ license, and at that point, it’s too late for parents to home-train their children or get them involved in high-quality religious activities.

I think a lot of people reading this thread are kidding themselves. As a religious group, American Catholics are the most under-catechized people I’ve ever seen, and the kids are no exception. I’ve worked with children all my life, and I consider myself an extremely-well-qualified children’s teacher/worker in club-type ministries. My choirs and clubs grew exponentially, as children crowded into them not to be entertained, but to actually experience living daily Christianity.

The Catholic kids I know have heard of King David, but have no clue who he is or what he did here on this earth. They don’t even know that much about Jesus, other than that He died on the cross and rose again (the basics that are in the two Creeds).

So they’re hearing the Gospel in the Mass and gaining a gradual understanding of it, are they? No they’re not. Maybe YOUR kids are, and I congratulate you. But most Catholic kids are just marking time in the Mass.

Parents insist that the Sacramental nature of the Mass applies to children as well, and that they gain all kinds of “graces” from the Mass. Of course they do, but “graces” are not the same as being able to accurately understand and remember the Gospel message and relate it to others. Most Catholics kids (older kids, not little ones) seem to think we go to heaven if we are 'good". Ask them for details, and they have no clue.

Catholic parents, wake up. The days are passing quickly, and I fear that your children will be among the thousands of Catholics who stop attending Mass when they leave your house, and who never attend Mass or any church throughout their adult years. They might come back when their babies are baptized, but that’s it, and it’s more to please you and other relatives than to please God and serve Him.

Just tellin’ the truth here, hard as it is. I realize that CAF members are often more committed to their faith, and they think every Catholic family is doing a great job like they are. But that’s not the case. Take a good hard look. And then ask the Protestant kids next door who King David was and what he did.

 

[pianistclare]

I agree with you about the faith-based activities for kids outside of Mass (I’m a huge proponent of “club ministries” for children), but the problem is, everyone is so busy and so few people attend. It’s not a priority for Catholics. Even in Protestant churches, attendance at many of the mid-week children’s ministries (clubs) has dropped because so many kids are involved in sports, arts, or just doing lots and lots of homework. Or, sadly, many parents are happy to just let their kids stay home and watch TV/play video games and not be involved with a lot of activities that force the parents to drive somewhere or pay a little fee.

There are a few great families where the parents really do schedule all kinds of wonderful family activities and therefore don’t have time for extra-Mass children’s activities. But I think that these families are rare these days. I think a lot of families just barrel along from day to day with very little planning, and all of a sudden, the child is 16 and getting a drivers’ license, and at that point, it’s too late for parents to home-train their children or get them involved in high-quality religious activities.

I think a lot of people reading this thread are kidding themselves. As a religious group, American Catholics are the most under-catechized people I’ve ever seen, and the kids are no exception. I’ve worked with children all my life, and I consider myself an extremely-well-qualified children’s teacher/worker in club-type ministries. My choirs and clubs grew exponentially, as children crowded into them not to be entertained, but to actually experience living daily Christianity.

The Catholic kids I know have heard of King David, but have no clue who he is or what he did here on this earth. They don’t even know that much about Jesus, other than that He died on the cross and rose again (the basics that are in the two Creeds).

So they’re hearing the Gospel in the Mass and gaining a gradual understanding of it, are they? No they’re not. Maybe YOUR kids are, and I congratulate you. But most Catholic kids are just marking time in the Mass.

Parents insist that the Sacramental nature of the Mass applies to children as well, and that they gain all kinds of “graces” from the Mass. Of course they do, but “graces” are not the same as being able to accurately understand and remember the Gospel message and relate it to others. Most Catholics kids (older kids, not little ones) seem to think we go to heaven if we are 'good". Ask them for details, and they have no clue.

Catholic parents, wake up. The days are passing quickly, and I fear that your children will be among the thousands of Catholics who stop attending Mass when they leave your house, and who never attend Mass or any church throughout their adult years. They might come back when their babies are baptized, but that’s it, and it’s more to please you and other relatives than to please God and serve Him.

Just tellin’ the truth here, hard as it is. I realize that CAF members are often more committed to their faith, and they think every Catholic family is doing a great job like they are. But that’s not the case. Take a good hard look. And then ask the Protestant kids next door who King David was and what he did.

If that’s how you really feel, then you should lead a campaign in your parish to get a well qualified DRE and a certified Catechist for every class.
The Catholic church has many programs in place for the purpose you state.
Have your pastor insist that parents enroll their children & support the parish in the education of THEIR children.
The people you speak of are the people who

1. don’t take their kids to Mass at all
2. don’t enroll them in education until it’s time to “get” a Sacrament, like FHC or Confirmation.

I do take a hard look. It’s my job. And what I see is parents who think Mass is optional. For them and for their children. I deal with more lukewarm Catholics than anyone here would believe.
Worship, an Mass participation is paramount. These programs with the gimmicks are just patches that mollify the parents, not the kids. The kids sit and stare just as they do in the church, they’re just with other kids. And the misbehaving ones still misbehave.
I had family who I thought were pretty devout and after their son made his First Communion, they said they were allowing him to “take a year off” from instruction…because “poor thing, what with soccer and all he’s just wiped out on Sundays” so they were not bringing him to Mass OR religious ed.
Anyone who thinks that the problem of people leaving the church is going to be fixed by taking the kids OUT of Mass? Crazy pants.
There’s no way I’ll ever believe that this is a good thing. If what you assert is true, the faith would never have lasted 2000 years. We have plenty of wonderful kids in the Church, doing oodles of community service, attending Adoration, working with the elderly, and serious about their faith. They nearly 100% from families that took them to the entire Mass even in the “fussy” years.

 

[Giggly_Giraffe]

Ms Cat,

Yes there are those who are poorly cateciesised. There are those who are very deep in their faith at an early age. During my re-version back to the church I was invited to teach CCD. I accepted for eight grade. These children in our parish were amazingly versed in the faith. I think they taught me as much as I was there for stability for them. The next year, I was called to kindergarden and again, all but one child knew the four gospels, the basic prayers, and had a special relationship with God. I asked the group, “who is Jesus” and a little boy stood up started air boxing and said, Jesus is the savior who stops the monsters from coming out of the closet-our savior. I told his parents and they were tickled pink. Anyway, still to this day I say children are so incredibly close to God.

Now on refference to the fallen away Catholics, we need to trust in Jesus that he tied a bunjii cord to them at baptism. I am a teatamony of how a prodigal daughter with little or no training in our faith was challenged by the writers of South Park to step up and re-do my training. I can only describe it as God tied a bunjii cord cord to me at baptism and let me jump untill the pains of wrongdoings tamed me. It took becoming an adult orphan to realize I needed God.

Now, I see my generation, who have similar stories, returning back to church to take Mom /Dad to the church for Mass, volunteering, and prayers. Like me, they look like deer in head lights. They are faced with the adult Delma’s of how to serve their parents and still give their parents authority. They find themselves discovering they have to use power of attorneys, and many hospital visits. So, when they are in the most of this God is calling them back. These seem to be the people you are in refference too — however, children of today are thriving fruitfully for the glory of God (IMO).

One last plug on the 20 generation. My religious education directors children are sucessfully promoting God to their aunts and uncles better than their mother did (and she is amazing ).

 

[SMHW]

I’m jumping in again to give my perspective.

I was a leader for Children’s Liturgy of the Word for many years at my parish but for various reasons I eventually stopped. My parish tries to offer it several times a month at two Sunday Masses during the school year. We split the kids into two age groups and have two leaders for each group. (Or at least I believe that’s still how it is done.) At one point we would try to get an older Children’s choir member to act as a psalmist but I don’t know if that still happens.

While it started out more free-form we eventually started following fairly strict guidelines (except maybe for reflection part) by having at least one reading, a psalm, the verse before the Gospel, the Gospel, a reflection, Creed, and Prayers of the Faithful. We were instructed NOT to do any kinds of crafts.

I think today that society puts a very heavy emphasis on knowing things. But we have a society that is rather passive. We don’t like having to work very hard at anything unless we FEEL it. Education in and of itself is a good thing but the world and society survives on WORK.

Being Catholic is WORK. It takes energy and discipline. We have to actually apply our knowledge of the Faith into our everyday living.

Children’s Liturgy of the Word does not have teaching as its main purpose but that doesn’t mean that children have nothing to learn from it. If done correctly it will be teaching children that participating at Mass and being sent from there into the world is the work that we must do. If Children’s Liturgy of the Word doesn’t do that, then it is just another feel good exercise.