Childrens Liturgy of the Word - Who cares if it's done wrong?

[T1Catholic]

This is a long post. Last year I posted about a new group of ladies to our parish who changed our CLOW to be a Sunday School where the kids were in the parish hall for the entire mass. They were dropped off there and picked-up there. I posted that when I brought this up with the priest he said he knew it wasn’t correct but had come up with a compromise where once a month we have at the Sunday mass a “children’s mass” where the kids do the first two readings from the Children’s lectionary. Then the kids are invited up to the altar at the start of the Liturgy of the Eucharist. I dropped fighting the issue because I was being bad-mouthed by these ladies in the community as a trouble-maker. I was pregnant and didn’t need the stress.

This year I tried to have them change it back to the correct format and was met with opposition. I went to the Dioceses and they had the format corrected (and were in fact somewhat shocked to hear that the children never participated in the mass). However, I’ve been told by these ladies to my face that I’m inflexible, that what they did last year was fine, that the children are too young to understand what is happening during the Liturgy of the Eucharist so why bother having them present and that they’ll learn more in the parish hall doing crafts and singing songs. I was also told that it doesn’t matter if the original set-up of CLOW came from the Vatican (I found a document on the web from teh 1970s) because there is room to make changes according to local customs and that “traditions on paper can be changed”. I have caused such an uproar that I fear my children will be ostracized at the school. I told my priest I wanted to switch parishes and he said not to and to instead go to a different mass even though he wished more people were as faithful to the teachings handed down to us as I appear to be. Go to a different mass? Maybe I did make too big of a deal about this. Maybe I am being legalistic and close-minded. After all in the entire parish, I was the only one who objected to the format change. We became known as the “one family who is in disagreement”.

These ladies are unhappy to the format change and even though I volunteered to help run the program I was told they already have enough volunteers. There was never an official call to volunteers it seems to be by personal invite by the head lady.

I need to hear from Catholics who know the faith, know the liturgy and the sacraments as to if maybe just maybe I didn’t need to take such measures and in future should mellow out.

 

[sphilomena]

First, I am sure the Lord will use your pain and suffering. How sad to be treated this way when you are standing up for the right thing. Secondly, you are to be commended for doing this. My own children are paying the price for the poor catechesis that they endured, which has gone on for the last 30+ years.

 

[Sabda]

Children receive God’s grace when they are at Mass. Why would anyone want to deny them that? Secondly, children learn how to behave and how to pray the Mass when they are at Mass. How can they do this if they are not there?

Also, how old are the oldest of these children? If they have already received First Communion then they NEED to be at Mass, not at Sunday School. Most CCD classes that we have in our area are done on Wedneday nights. However, the one that our parish does is done the hour before Mass. This is to make sure that the children can participate in Mass and receive God’s grace.

Bless you for trying to make things right.

 

[SMHW]

Attendance at Mass is REQUIRED for children over the age of reason.

If CLOTW is done correctly it truly is the Liturgy of the Word for the children. (In other words, the Liturgy of the Word for a Mass can take place in two locations simultaneously.)

But the children must also take part in the Liturgy of the Eucharist. Sunday school can not take the place of the Liturgy of the Eucharist!

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

You were right. Period. The diocese said you were right. The women (they are hardly behaving as ladies should) have their dander up because they were caught.

This is now not a CLOW thing. It’s a control thing. You do not need to mellow out. IMONSHO, this whole CLOW thing needs to be disbanded, perhaps to be started at a later date- using the correct format.

If you think the women are harassing your kids at school, or if you find out other kids are harassing your kids at school, and the principal gives you no justice, and the pastor allows their behavior to continue, it’s time to go. You and I are in the same boat right now, so if you want to PM me, feel free.

 

[KathleenElsie]

We just told our parish that our children would not participate in the CLOTW. They IOHO belong at Mass with us.

 

[LSK]

I will never understand people in a parish who object to things being done correctly…and while I don’t mean to come off as a know-it-all, I feel very blessed to be in a parish where our priest is strong and willing to stand up to opposition from those who want us to ‘not be so inflexible’.

I also hope I do not come across as accusatory towards your pastor, but I am concerned that he let these people run rough shod over you without preaching proper liturgy and procedure as part of a series of sermons. Our pastor has done so, from time to time, taking the opportunity to ‘teach’ the flock.

Have we lost some parishoners(spelling?)? Oh sure, we have. But you know, it’s funny…we are the slightly goofy parish in our Diocese…we’re the ‘conservative one’ ( in all fairness, the other parishes in our city are looked at the same way). Yet our RCIA classes are the largest, our parish is growing and, in fact, more Catholics in our city are coming ‘out of the closet’ (so to speak) and becoming quite vocal about the Faith.

Amazing, isn’t it? The Truth really does set you free…

 

[Sr_Sally]

You did the right thing. The children (even those who haven’t had First Communion) should be at the Liturgy of the Eucharist. Seeing the consecration and saying “That’s Jesus!” is how they learn. Personally I would keep my kids out of CLOW. I might also attend another Mass time–not to say those people won, but so that I didn’t even have to deal with their nonsense. However, I am in a huge parish, so even if I’d made waves, I could find other like minded people without any trouble. I am sure it is much ahrder in a small parish. I will be praying for you.

 

[puzzleannie]

this entire post is not about CLOW, because what is going on in this parish is NOT a children’s liturgy of the word. It is a story about a pastor abdicating his role and trying to please everyone and alienate no one. He is sowing the wind and will reap the whirlwind. It is also about control issues that have plagued the Church for at least 40 years, by people of limited literacy who have never read the V2 document on the laity, and could not grasp it if they did, because they have already re-written the doucment in their own closed and locked little minds.

 

[Titus]

Please don’t be too harsh on this pastor: he is trying to avoid conflict and bring people together. He has good intentions. Often long serving pastors get used to things and people in their parish and don’t want to ruffle feathers. Pray for him, and pray for these women. They are angry with you because they want to run things and not follow the directives of the Holy See. My suggestion is to gather around you those who support you and get involved. Ask the pastor to force open the CLOW to other volunteers. The only way to improve things is to work together and break the monopoly of these people.

Jesus’ message isn’t one of getting along with everyone. Undoubtedly doing his work will bring some conflict, but the rewards for you and the children will be immense.

Good luck and god bless.

 

[T1Catholic]

Thank you everyone for your support. I’m so grateful to hear your opinions because I really was begginning to think that I made too big an issue about this and really is any harm being done to the children? I thought maybe I was being a Pharisee and being legalistic without looking at the big picture. When I mentioned that maybe it wasn’t such a good idea that they brought the kids up to the altar at the exact moment the pastor is doing the consecration, the one lady responded “Well the kids were late because it turns out they needed an adult to lead them and I’m sure the Lord doesn’t mind that they went up to the altar late”. I didn’t respond but thought, “Well if you knew the signifigance of the moment, you would have realized it wasn’t as important for the kids to be up at the altar as it was to show reverence and stay put”

As for my pastor, he arrived at the parish the same time this group of ladies did. Like lots of other priests he has so many problems to deal with and maybe in the list of priorities, CLOW isn’t up there and everyone including these ladies did have the best of intensions when they started out.

I thought about having him force open the volunteer issue but I’m a little concerned that it might be too soon after the latest broohaha between myself and these ladies and I don’t want to pester him too much right now. I might open it up in a month or so.

As for these ladies, they really do not know the teachings of the Church and while I try to explain it delicately I can’t help but think that I must come off sounding like some kind of Catholic fanatic. The other day when I tried to explain to the one lady that even though the kids may not understand what is happening at the Eucharist, why would any parent not want them to be in the “presence of the Real Presence” I could tell she did not know what I meant.

I decided I’m going to keep attending the mass with the CLOW and not be run out to other masses. Please keep me in your prayers as I anticipate another showdown - these ladies are really angry with me as I have heard from other sources.

 

[BHawkes]

…I told my priest I wanted to switch parishes and he said not to and to instead go to a different mass even though he wished more people were as faithful to the teachings handed down to us as I appear to be. Go to a different mass?

God love you!
It’s not easy being a Christian, is it? Don’t weaken. Don’t allow others to thwart your service to Jesus Christ. Hang in there and continue to pray. I would take your pastor’s advice and attend another Mass for now, however. It might be time for you to “be still”, pray and see what unfolds.

I am puzzled about your pastor though. He doesn’t want you to leave, yet you had to go to the diocese to have these matters corrected? Where was he? Where is he now that you are being ostracized from serving at your parish? He needs to support you.

 

[genie79]

Hi everyone,

I am wondering, if anyone could please point me to documents from the Vatican that specify when children can leave the mass for their own Liturgy, and when they are to be back in the mass by.

Your help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Jeanne

 

[Phemie]

You’ll find two sentences in the Directory for Masses With Children.

**Chapter II. Masses With Adults in Which Children Also Participate
** 16. In many places parish Masses are celebrated, especially on Sundays and holy days, at which a good many children take part along with the large number of adults. On such occasions the witness of adult believers can have a great effect upon the children. Adults can in turn benefit spiritually from experiencing the part that the children have within the Christian community. The Christian spirit of the family is greatly fostered when children take part in these Masses together with their parents and other family members.

Infants who as yet are unable or unwilling to take part in the Mass may be brought in at the end of Mass to be blessed together with the rest of the community. This may be done, for example, if parish helpers have been taking care of them in separate areas.

1. Nevertheless, in Masses of this kind it is necessary to take great care that the children present do not feel neglected because of their inability to participate or to understand what happens and what is proclaimed in the celebration. Some account should be taken of their presence: for example, by speaking to them directly in the introductory comments (as at the beginning and the end of Mass) and at some point in the homily.

Sometimes, moreover, if the place itself and the nature of the community permit, it will be appropriate to celebrate the Liturgy of the Word, including a homily, with the children in a separate, but not too distant, room. Then, before the Eucharistic Liturgy begins, the children are led to the place where the adults have meanwhile celebrated their own Liturgy of the Word.

 

[jpjd]

When we used to have CLOTW with our previous pastor, the kids left prior to the first reading and returned at the point where the gifts are brought to the altar. Many times it was the older ones of the kids bringing up the gifts.

Our current pastor did away with the CLOTW. He believes families should be together during the Mass and that the children learn much from being present at Mass. If the children are restless, that’s what the cry room is for.

 

[genie79]

Wonderful, thanks for all the answers!!!

I am just wondering - why is it that I cannot find the document on the Vatican website itself?

I can get it from the catholic liturgy website, as well as the adoremus website… and the author is Congregation for Divine Worship - but no link directly on the Vatican?

Hmm, am just thinking it’d give more credibility to the people in charge

Thanks,
Jeanne