children's liturgy

[philjane]

In our parish the children go downstairs after the opening prayer & come back at the offertory–they do the readings & the little ones color–one person believes that children who have made their first communion should not leave the church–she told the priest that today & he told her to find a church document that says that–does such a document exist??

 

[prophetdaniel]

Is this a parent who does not want her children attending Children’s Liturgy (CL)? If it is a parent, it is up to her. Otherwise, I’d just tell her the purpose of CL and leave it at that. I do not know of such a document.

 

[netmilsmom]

philjane:

In our parish the children go downstairs after the opening prayer & come back at the offertory–they do the readings & the little ones color–one person believes that children who have made their first communion should not leave the church–she told the priest that today & he told her to find a church document that says that–does such a document exist??

I’m not sure there is a document but my question would be, when do we stop having Sunday School for the kiddies and have them attend mass?
I think that First Communion would be the Red Flag that this is no longer a baby but rather a young Catholic. When we start them young with entertainment, it’s what they expect later.

I must add, we have 750 families and not a single Holy Mass that is a children’s mass or has a children’s liturgy of the word.

I detested the idea that my “Catholic Community” believed that my children could not handle a whole mass. I either had to tell my girls that they could not go with the other kids or have them go to the watered down liturgy. Now I am at a parish and I love it.

I guess that’s why I homeschool a classic curriculm. I believe that if you give a child Homer, that child will get something out of it. But if you give them Nancy Drew, while still good, that child will not be challenged in the same way.

Leaving them with the adults to listen or pray, expects more of them.

 

[Dr.Bombay]

netmil(name removed by moderator):

Leaving them with the adults to listen or pray, expects more of them.

Amen. Children aren’t stupid and they don’t need to be talked down to.

If we expect more out of human beings of any age, we usually get it. If we dumb things down, we usually get dummies.

 

[netmilsmom]

Dr. Bombay:

Amen. Children aren’t stupid and they don’t need to be talked down to.

If we expect more out of human beings of any age, we usually get it. If we dumb things down, we usually get dummies.

And of course this is why I have the smartest and most pious children on Earth.

 

[Andreas_Hofer]

I myself recognize that there may be some merit to children’s liturgy, but on the whole I find the whole concept rather condescending.

 

[prophetdaniel]

Is it the purpose of Children’s Liturgy or the attitude of people who run the program at the parish that is not liked? If it is the attitude, let the pastor know how you feel.

 

[Tonks40]

I personally don’t see anything wrong with the Children’s Liturgy. We do provide this at 3 of our Masses on the weekends. It is not required that the children leave Mass to attend this seperate liturgy, but I’m sure that some of the parents there appreciate the fact that they can listen and concentrate on the homily without little ones tugging at them all the time.

I also see benefits with the Children’s Liturgy in that it can foster in helping them grow and deepen in their faith. They do come back at Offertory, and are with us during the most pious part of the Mass, the Liturgy of the Eucharist. We have to recognize that within the Catholic Church, spiritual grow advances at differing rates - why not have services available to accomodate little ones? As they learn more about their faith, they’ll be more apt to want to stay in church for the entire Mass.

I also see this as an opportunity for parents to discuss what the kids learned in these liturgies - opening dialogue and teaching to the young within the family.

 

[Forest-Pine]

I understand the point of children’s liturgy and don’t have a problem with the goal. There is just something that tugs inside me telling me there is something not right. My little one has attended church with me from her very first Sunday. She once went to the nursery, then purposefully acted up to be able to go play. Never again. The Children’s Liturgy at least just breaks the readings down to their level for them. As one of the priests who gives homilies at my church is perhaps the longest, dryest, most confusing homilist I’ve ever heard and even I have difficulty following along, I can sympathise with a little one. Still, my heart tells me that it is their faith and their church just as much as it is ours, and how else will they come to appreciate it if they have to have a watered down version? A parent can always discuss the readings at a child-friendly level before or after Mass.

None of this addresses your OT, though, about whether a church document exists to back up my heart’s tugs. I am afraid I do not know. My guess would be that it would not be a topic unto itself, but addressed in some other topic such as that people who intend to take communion should be present at a minumum from this time through Mass (which I do believe exists, and I vaguely think it is from the readings onward, but I could easily be wrong on that).

 

[netmilsmom]

Forest-Pine:

I understand the point of children’s liturgy and don’t have a problem with the goal. There is just something that tugs inside me telling me there is something not right. My little one has attended church with me from her very first Sunday. She once went to the nursery, then purposefully acted up to be able to go play. Never again. The Children’s Liturgy at least just breaks the readings down to their level for them. As one of the priests who gives homilies at my church is perhaps the longest, dryest, most confusing homilist I’ve ever heard and even I have difficulty following along, I can sympathise with a little one. Still, my heart tells me that it is their faith and their church just as much as it is ours, and how else will they come to appreciate it if they have to have a watered down version? A parent can always discuss the readings at a child-friendly level before or after Mass.

I think you are correct!

I guess that my problem with it is the same as society has with the children of this generation.
In the 70’s Sesame Street came on. Everything came in 15 second segments. That generation became the MTV generation. 1.5 minute segments. Now those are the young parents who feel that everything revolves around their children. They drive them to activities after school and hand them a plethora of toys to constantly amuse them. Then they wonder why the children can’t hold still. We medicate them instead of putting in an effort (and no I’m not anti-Ritalin, just against it for every child).

In my parent’s day and in my parish now, we have a cry room, not a nursery. The parents are expected to train their children to focus on the Holy Mass. As a child, my parish had St. Joseph Picture Books to buy or lend during Mass. Families in my parish has tons! The little ones were taught to be quiet because that was appropriate. They could look at the books and pray. By First Communion, they knew what to do at Mass.

When we have children, we understand that we have to give some things up for a while. If you don’t hear the Homily, you either, have mom and dad go to different masses or understand that it is not forever. Unlike in generations past, we can turn on EWTN or the internet for a good Homily.

We can’t fill our churches, we are losing vocations, maybe we need to look at what we are expecting of our children. I expect mine to be adults in training, not just kids.

Our parish has 200 Altar Boys and 8 seminarians. We must be doing something right.

 

[Topher]

I have two major problems with childrens liturgies. The first problem is this. If the Children are separated from the main church, there is a sort of sundering of the unity that is supposed to exist at the Divine Liturgy. My second problem is this: alot of Childrens liturgies actually change the words of the Liturgy to fit personal tastes. If that is not a liturgical abuse, then I don’t know what is.

 

[Elzee]

At our parish most kids who attend CL have not made their First Communion. CL is for kids not enrolled in Sunday School *(more on that later…).
*
My suggestion would be if you want your child to attend the CL, then attend it with them for at least a month (or until all the volunteer teachers rotate through) to hear exactly what they are learning. I did this with my kids and one lady who was ‘teaching’ the kids had them praying for the souls in heaven! **aagh! ** This person is also a EMHC. It’s sad. There is no requirement for being a CL teacher…just a ‘willing heart’. I’m sorry, that sometimes just isn’t enough. You need to make sure the people teaching your children our beautiful faith know it themselves.

Now the Sunday School topic…Our church also has ‘Sunday School’ for kids ages 3-5 - but it is held during Mass! Is this how other churches do it? It means that if parents choose to enroll their kids in Sunday School for the full 3 year course, they would rarely attend Mass from the ages of 3-5, except during 2 months in the summer and days like Easter Christmas, etc. This just blows my mind! Is this a common practice?

 

[SMHW]

Elzee:

Now the Sunday School topic…Our church also has ‘Sunday School’ for kids ages 3-5 - but it is held during Mass! Is this how other churches do it? It means that if parents choose to enroll their kids in Sunday School for the full 3 year course, they would rarely attend Mass from the ages of 3-5, except during 2 months in the summer and days like Easter Christmas, etc. This just blows my mind! Is this a common practice?

That’s how it works at the parishes around here too.

 

[netmilsmom]

Elzee:

At our parish most kids who attend CL have not made their First Communion. CL is for kids not enrolled in Sunday School *(more on that later…).
*
My suggestion would be if you want your child to attend the CL, then attend it with them for at least a month (or until all the volunteer teachers rotate through) to hear exactly what they are learning. I did this with my kids and one lady who was ‘teaching’ the kids had them praying for the souls in heaven! aagh! This person is also a EMHC. It’s sad. There is no requirement for being a CL teacher…just a ‘willing heart’. I’m sorry, that sometimes just isn’t enough. You need to make sure the people teaching your children our beautiful faith know it themselves.

OH MY!
Not the souls in Purgatory? Was it a slip or for real?
In my old “Catholic Community” the first grade teacher said that the Pope was Pope John. I thought it was a slip until the next week when she asked the class and a boy said “Pope John”. She said right.

Now the Sunday School topic…Our church also has ‘Sunday School’ for kids ages 3-5 - but it is held during Mass! Is this how other churches do it? It means that if parents choose to enroll their kids in Sunday School for the full 3 year course, they would rarely attend Mass from the ages of 3-5, except during 2 months in the summer and days like Easter Christmas, etc. This just blows my mind! Is this a common practice?

The same church did that. My daughter attended mass for the first non-holiday time at six. BAD NEWS! She is a good girl but had no clue how to behave.
We escaped to a much more traditional church.
No Sunday School.
No Children’s Liturgy of the Word.
My 5 & 7 year olds say the Rosary before Mass
And sing “O Sanctissima” in the Choir.

Ii don’t agree with Sunday School, but it is done.

 

[Detroit_Sue]

Directory for Masses with Children

It’s an old document, and it is just vague enough for “progressive” parishes to make allowances to let everyone up to age 13 to attend these “services.”

I believe I read somewhere that there is a clarification/directive in production now.

Don’t expect the priests ordained between 1960-1980 to find something wrong with it.

 

[Elzee]

netmil(name removed by moderator):

OH MY!
Not the souls in Purgatory? Was it a slip or for real?
In my old “Catholic Community” the first grade teacher said that the Pope was Pope John. I thought it was a slip until the next week when she asked the class and a boy said “Pope John”. She said right.

The same church did that. My daughter attended mass for the first non-holiday time at six. BAD NEWS! She is a good girl but had no clue how to behave.
We escaped to a much more traditional church.
No Sunday School.
No Children’s Liturgy of the Word.
My 5 & 7 year olds say the Rosary before Mass
And sing “O Sanctissima” in the Choir.

Ii don’t agree with Sunday School, but it is done.

Unfortunately, it wasn’t just a slip. She had no clue. She does now (I politely educated her).

The poor catechesis of our adults continues to perpetuate poor catechesis in our children in many parishes. Ours does a good job in some areas, but in many we are so lacking. I’ve talked with an EMHC in our parish, for example, who does not believe in confession. I doubt a sacramental life and the graces associated with it are stressed by this person when this person runs a Sunday School session or a meeting with our teens.

My best advice is to talk to the people who will be teaching your children to learn if their beliefs follow the teachings of the Church. Don’t be shy about asking questions - ask to see the material they are using at Sunday School or CL or youth group, ask them if they openly disagree with Church teachings in front of the ones they are teaching, do they stress a sacramental life, do they believe in the authority of the Church, etc. This can all be done politely, and it needs to be done if we want to ensure our children are learning their faith and building their relationship with God better than some of us did. * I think I’ve gone off the topic of this thread…sorry for the digression. *

 

[Freeway4321]

So that’s why the kids went downstairs! I was confused about that…

 

[prophetdaniel]

Elzee:

The poor catechesis of our adults continues to perpetuate poor catechesis in our children in many parishes. Ours does a good job in some areas, but in many we are so lacking.

I know what you mean. I have the responsibility of finding training opportunities for adult leaders. The number of “incompetent” adults (18 to 30) is unbelievably shameful. There are adults who can only function if they are told and showed in babysteps what they are suppose to do during “every” session - even after dicoese training and assisting for 1 year.

This is unnecessarily stressful and hard on friendships. Because it is I who must tell people they can no longer serve in ministry.

 

[Elzee]

prophetdaniel:

I know what you mean. I have the responsibility of finding training opportunities for adult leaders. The number of “incompetent” adults (18 to 30) is unbelievably shameful. There are adults who can only function if they are told and showed in babysteps what they are suppose to do during “every” session - even after dicoese training and assisting for 1 year.

This is unnecessarily stressful and hard on friendships. Because it is I who must tell people they can no longer serve in ministry.

But good for you that you have the courage to tell them when they can no longer serve. God Bless You!

 

[ProudArmyWife]

I’m the religious education coordinator for my military community. Part of my duties is to run the Children’s Liturgy. Currently we requested that only pre-K through 1st grade attend the children’s liturgy. They leave just prior to the readings and come back during the offertory so they can still experience the Eucharist. We use a curriculum to make sure we aren’t personally invoking our ideas into the Word and review our plans with our priest to make sure we understand the liturgy.

I disagree with the children’s liturgy being watered-down. It is just read at their level. It’s like someone trying to explain the internet to someone. There are lots of technical terms to explain how it works, or there are easier ways - how one explains it just depends on where ones development is.