Children's Mass Liturgy "Pageant"...help?

[H_Opey]

This is a big sore subject with me. I will give you a suggestion first, which I think someone mentioned.

RIGHT BEFORE MASS a song is sung, *AwayIn A Manager, The Children process to the *area in your Church and place baby Jesus in the manger and maybe sing another song around baby Jesus with Angels and Shephards. This is great for children 2nd grade and younger Then they return to their parents. Older children, dressed appropiately, do the readings. .

IT IS NOT OK TO ACT OUT THE GOSPEL. The Priest needs to read it also. Since you can decide what you and the parish will do, I highly suggest to stick with something outside of the Mass.

Maybe even have St. Nick not necessarily Santa outside of the Church after Mass to hand out chocolates. St. Nick is the patron of children as well as . Here is a good site to help with info on St. Nick
stnicholascenter.org/Brix?pageID=23

Please do not act out the Gospel or readings. We are not at Mass to be entertained but to worship.

God Bless
H

 

[st_felicity]

This is a big sore subject with me. I will give you a suggestion first, which I think someone mentioned.

May I ask why it is such a sore subject? I hope you do understand that I have been asked by my priest to do this and so I have to show up with something and I want to very much to do it in a way that will not result in bad feelings for anyone. That is why I am seeking help here.

RIGHT BEFORE MASS a song is sung, AwayIn A Manager, The Children process to the area in your Church and place baby Jesus in the manger and maybe sing another song around baby Jesus with Angels and Shephards. This is great for children 2nd grade and younger Then they return to their parents. Older children, dressed appropiately, do the readings. .

This is excellent. I will work with this idea.

IT IS NOT OK TO ACT OUT THE GOSPEL. The Priest needs to read it also. Since you can decide what you and the parish will do, I highly suggest to stick with something outside of the Mass.

Father specifically asked for something within Mass that should be dealt with during the liturgy of the word. He has to run off right after Mass to do another service at a sister parish.

Maybe even have St. Nick not necessarily Santa outside of the Church after Mass to hand out chocolates. St. Nick is the patron of children as well as . Here is a good site to help with info on St. Nick
stnicholascenter.org/Brix?pageID=23

Please do not act out the Gospel or readings. We are not at Mass to be entertained but to worship.

God Bless
H

That would also be good. I could get more kids involved as angels to help an older kid as St. Nick as they leave Mass.

Your comments concerning the Gospel is specifically my own concern–and again–why I am asking here.

Thank you.

 

[H_Opey]

I was asked to do something similar. He, the priest, wanted something IN the mass, the kids ACTING OUT the Gospel. I let him know what I found out and proposed that we do the procession with the children (which was liked by most parents on years done before). After I explained my reservations (reading and gospels are to be PROCLAIMED not acted) I was informed that there were two schools of thought on this and they were both right. Either I could do as he asked or get out of the picture all together. I backed down because I knew it was not right. It put us in more of a predicament because our children, 6 and 8 at the time, wanted to be involved. So, we ended up going to another parish for Christmas all together

And the priest just simply said, “Whatever”.

You have to make the decision for yourself. With my new found love for God and the liturgy, it would have been easier to walk down the street naked than to ask children to act out the Gospel.

I personally prefer the procession before Mass for 2 reasons.

1. Little kids can do this (visiting children can be asked to come around the manger and sing also, even if they aren’t in costume)
2. It gives the parents a chance to stash halos/wings/etc so they aren’t distracting during mass.

God Bless
H

 

[John_Lilburne]

If I structure it where the kids only say the dialog (it looks like it would be an angel and Joseph) while Father proclaims the Gospel, does it appear that would be licit? It would be like the Passion portions of the Easter readings. I can write the kids portion any way I like and I won’t have to be confrontational at all. Actually, I’m glad I was asked to do this because I am concerned about doing it appropriately–I would rather have the headache of it myself, than go and see something in a Mass that upset me and not be able to do something about it after the fact.

No, it would not be licit.

From the 2002 General Instruction of the Roman Missal, n. 109: “But it is not at all appropriate that several persons divide a single element of the celebration among themselves, e.g., that the same reading be proclaimed by two lectors, one after the other, except as far as the Passion of the Lord is concerned.”

This contradicts the 1973 Directory for Masses with Children: “47. … Depending on the text of the reading, it may be helpful for the children to read it in parts distributed among them, as is provided for the reading of the Lord’s passion during Holy Week.”

This reading should not be shared like the Passion because:
– 2002 GIRM is a more recent instruction.
– The language “it may be helpful” is a suggestion, but the 2002 GIRM has a clear prohibition “not at all appropriate”. How could it be “helpful” to break this clear prohibition?
– Directory for Masses with Children n. 47 is in Chapter Three “Masses with Children in Which Only a Few Adults Participate”. This will not be the case on Christmas Eve. There will be lots of adults participating. So what applies is Chapter Two “Masses with Adults in Which Children Also Participate”. So the allowances made in Chapter Three cannot be used, unless according to n. 19 “Wherever the bishop permits, in addition to the adaptations already provided in the Order of Mass, one or other of the particular adaptations described later may be employed in a Mass celebrated with adults in which children also participate.” In this case the bishop would be going against the 2002 GIRM n. 109 above.
– The readings are to be proclaimed from the ambo. Acting them out in a more general area fails to follow this. From the 2002 GIRM:
“*The Ambo *
309. The dignity of the word of God requires that the church have a place that is suitable for the proclamation of the word and toward which the attention of the whole congregation of the faithful naturally turns during the Liturgy of the Word.
It is appropriate that this place be ordinarily a stationary ambo and not simply a movable lectern. The ambo must be located in keeping with the design of each church in such a way that the ordained ministers and lectors may be clearly seen and heard by the faithful.”
Many quotes could be given on this, here is one: “130. If there is to be a second reading before the Gospel, the lector proclaims it from the ambo.”

The dialogue for Joseph is part of the Gospel. At Mass this is only to be proclaimed by an ordained minister. From the 2004 Instruction Redemptionis Sacramentum:
“[63.] “Within the celebration of the Sacred Liturgy, the reading of the Gospel, which is “the high point of the Liturgy of the Word” is reserved by the Church’s tradition to an ordained minister.
Thus it is not permitted for a layperson, even a religious, to proclaim the Gospel reading in the celebration of Holy Mass, nor in other cases in which the norms do not explicitly permit it.” I have removed footnotes from this quote, one is 2002 GIRM 59-60, which includes:
“The readings, therefore, should be proclaimed by a lector, and the Gospel by a deacon or, in his absence, a priest other than the celebrant.”

 

[st_felicity]

Most excellent… Thank you John and HOpey and all…you have helped me figure out what will be the right course and I appreciate it.

I think I will do the procession thing while singing a traditional carol hymn (maybe Oh Come, Oh Come Emmanuel) as a the entry hymn and have them end up at the Nativity scene and continue singing as Father and the servers come down the isle. Prior to Father’s greeting, I can have them do a little dialog that comes from the Gospel of Luke that will involve the angel “bringing tidings of great joy” to shepherds that will join them at the manger. Then, they could sing maybe Silent Night as they go to their seats. Father can do the greeting and the older children can do the 2 readings at the ambo. Then Father can continue Mass with the Gospel. Another child can do the intentions. At the end, Father can announce in the closing remarks that St. Nick and some Christmas angels will be passing out goodies as people exit the church.

Sound good? Thanks again. Sorry if it upset anyone.

 

[jmcrae]

That sounds terrific! The kids will have a wonderful time, and everyone will enjoy the Christmas Vigil Mass.

 

[st_felicity]

BTW HOpey–if Father says “whatever…” I can be ignorant. He was not very clear and it was dumped in my lap. I’ll do it right, and if they don’t like it–they can find someone else next year and I’ll be sure to go to Midnight Mass instead of the Vigil.

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

I think John and HOpey have offered excellent suggestions, and that you have a plan, Felicity.

 

[H_Opey]

I pray you have a wonderful Christmas and have no doubt you will do what is right. Thank you for listening.

God Bless
H

 

[st_felicity]

Thanks again, all…now…

…if ya’ll can just write the plan, get the kids together, scrape together the costumes and train them in the singing, while getting other adults to cooperate and help pull it all off…

oh yeah…*** ***I’m gonna have to do that part!

Chrismas blessings to all! I appreciate the help!

 

[netmilsmom]

Thanks again, all…now…

…if ya’ll can just write the plan, get the kids together, scrape together the costumes and train them in the singing, while getting other adults to cooperate and help pull it all off…

oh yeah…***I’m ***gonna have to do that part!

Chrismas blessings to all! I appreciate the help!

I’ll say a prayer for ya, Lady!
(I thought herding just the Shepherds was bad.That’s all I’m doing this year)

 

[st_felicity]

Hey–I’m writing this thing and I want to put most of the action between the Penetential Rite and the Gloria so that when the Angel of the Lord and the Heavenly Host sings the Gloria, it can be the whole congregation giving glory. Then, that would be the end of the presentation. After the Gloria there is a period of silence and the kids can go to their seats and also the Mass wouldn’t be interrupted by applause–Father could have them stand at the end for recognition in his closing remarks.

Is there a problem with the “play” occuring in the midst of the Penetential Rite and the Gloria?

 

[st_felicity]

…I figure it’s before the opening prayer and the actual Liturgy of the Word…so…???

 

[gelsbern]

…I figure it’s before the opening prayer and the actual Liturgy of the Word…so…???

The issue I see is that once Father starts with the greeting, the Mass has begun, and the children’s presentation should be complete.

Here’s a quick idea. Perhaps have the children set the mood for the Mass by acting out scenes to carols in perhaps a chronological order.

Start with “O Come Immanuel” in anticipation of His birth. The entire congregation could sing this while the children took their places.

The children could then act out Mary and Joseph looking for a room and being sent to the stables.

Followed by “While Shepherds Watched” followed with a little scene of angels announcing our Saviors birth to the shepherds.

Finally “Away in a manger” then the All the children proceed to the nativity scene and place baby Jesus in the manger, and then all the children proceed to their seats while the congregation sings Silent Night to set the mood for the Mass to begin.

Father begins the Mass,

have your older children do their readings

Father reads the Gospel.

have an older child do the intercessory prayer,

Then you could have for the communion procession, “O Come all ye Faithful” Which would be a double tie in in that we adore our Lord when we approach for the Eucharist.

Father then ends Mass, and the closing hymn would be “Joy to the World” as we celebrate the birth of our Savior

This would allow your children to participate, with no interruption to the Mass itself, no danger of illicitness.

Anyway it’s just some thoughts.

God Bless, and you are in my prayers.

 

[st_felicity]

I’ll say a prayer for ya, Lady

BTW…thanks for the prayers and keep ‘em comin’ please!..It’s snowin’ like the dickens here --school’s closing and I haven’t even got kids to do this yet…

Christmas Eve is WHEN??? :bigyikes:

…Naw…it’s gonna all work out–I have faith He will provide.

Anyway…

Gelsbern–thanks for the suggestions. We are going to sing Oh Come, Oh Come Emmanuel as they come to the Crèche. Also–from what I’ve put together, after Mary says a portion of the Magnificat and places Baby Jesus in the manger, all the kids will sing Away in the Manger. The reason I want to place the reenactment of the incarnation between the Penitential Rite and the Gloria is because Advent is a penitential season as we await the Glory of our coming King. And the Gloria shared with the congregation would emphasize the universality of His Salvation. (plus–it would quash spontaneous applause and allow the flow of Mass to remain undisturbed)

Since this is a Children’s Mass that is intended to connect the “bigger picture” of our faith and worship to the real world experience and understanding of children–I thought this would convey those two ideas without corrupting the actual Liturgical process of the Mass.

Does anyone know if placing such a “reenactment” between the Penitential Rite and the Gloria offends any prescriptive instruction for the Mass?

 

[gelsbern]

You can’t licitly stick anything between the between the Penitential Rite and the Gloria because it is not part of the Order of the Mass. I know I am not in union with Rome and all, but one thing I do know is that the Order of the Mass, is the Order of the Mass, and there is nothing that can be stuck in or removed, no matter which rite is being used. For the Current Roman Rite, things must be followed according to the GIRM. Please, please really pray long and hard about this before sticking something in the middle of something in the Mass and look at having it before Mass begins.

humbly,

 

[H_Opey]

St. F,
Advent is not a penitential season, just learned that today from Jimmy Akin.
We aren’t at liberty to “put” and change during the Mass. Now, if you want them to follow behind the procession of the priest/or before you will need to ask.
We are attending Mass this year at a neighboring parish and they are having this procession starting at 4:30pm and Mass starting at 5pm.
MHO, If they sing the songs you have suggested and proceed and stand around gazing and adoring baby Jesus, I think that will be simply beautiful.
Our prayers are with you.
We would love to have some of that snow too!!!
Praying that it snows here,
H

 

[st_felicity]

St. F,
Advent is not a penitential season, just learned that today from Jimmy Akin.

Curious…? The color purple…Gaudette Sunday,encouraged penetential practices and devotions…What did Mr. Akin say?

 

[puzzleannie]

I have been asked to put together a type of pageant/presentation for the Liturgy of the Word at the Children’s Christmas Eve Mass. Basically, the idea is that the children would “act out” the readings. I am to try and use as many kids of various ages as possible. I have some resources, but they are not really specific to the Liturgy of the Word for use in Mass.

I want to do this in the most respectful way possible so that it is

1st: licit
2nd: the children appreciate their participation in proclaiming the Word, and
3rd: it is more that a little “show” for parents.

Any comments/suggestions would be helpful.

Thanks in advance!

It sounds as if your pastor wants a real Children’s Liturgy for this Mass, that is, using the Children’s Lectionary, preparing them to do the readings etc. That part is great. That is what we do for our school Masses and it is positive in every way. If you can do this once a month, at least, moreover your kids will gain in a real understanding of the Mass.

now for the “pageant” part, I didn’t respond at first because I had to calm down. There is no licit way for a “pageant” in any sense of the Word to be part of the Liturgy of the Word during Mass. Period. The furthest you could stretch would be multiple proclaimers, but this Gospel does not even lend itself to that because there is no narrator plus dialogue plus narration as there is the in the Passion accounts. In any case, the proclamation of the Passion is the only time this is allowed.

During Mass your option is limited to children dressed as Mary, Joseph, shepherds etc. in the procession, taking their place in a tableau in front of the altar. Obviously only as man children for whom there is enough space. They remain quietly during Mass, kneel at for the Eucharistic prayer etc.

They have done this every year in our parish for all the Christmas eve Masses (4) with the youth doing Midnight Mass. This was the pastor’s concession to a long-standing tradition of an actual pageant, which he sees as an abuse.

Yes, kids who are carefully chosen can sit still that long. Usually their parents are the onese to make the costumes and supervise the proceedings. I have gradually moved this production out of the hands of CCD, using the excuse that the parents who initiated these things have since moved on and nobody else will volunteer (this is the truth). Personally, I think this has no place at Mass and won’t do anything actively to promote it unless I am given a direct order by the pastor.

Another alternative, if as I gather the Children’s Mass is the first of the evening, and in your diocese permission has been given for this to “count” for Christmas, would be a traditional pageant, someone hopefully a deacon proclaiming Luke’s gospel as children in costume pantomime the appropriate actions. any number of carols, religious, traditional, appropriate for the action, can be sung during this time.

This is licit, but here is the problem we have had in parishes where this is done: the whole thing, for the families with children participating, is the pageant, you have the competition for the best spot for eager relatives with camcorders and cameras, and they haul their kids home after the show. For them, Christmas liturgy is now over and they are through. The Mass itself loses relevance, immediacy and importance.

You know your parish best, if you think this won’t be a problem, go for it. but not during Mass. no, grandma can’t stomach that.

 

[puzzleannie]

I have been asked to put together a type of pageant/presentation for the Liturgy of the Word at the Children’s Christmas Eve Mass. Basically, the idea is that the children would “act out” the readings. I am to try and use as many kids of various ages as possible. I have some resources, but they are not really specific to the Liturgy of the Word for use in Mass.

I want to do this in the most respectful way possible so that it is

1st: licit
2nd: the children appreciate their participation in proclaiming the Word, and
3rd: it is more that a little “show” for parents.

Any comments/suggestions would be helpful.

Thanks in advance!

It sounds as if your pastor wants a real Children’s Liturgy for this Mass, that is, using the Children’s Lectionary, preparing them to do the readings etc. That part is great. That is what we do for our school Masses and it is positive in every way. If you can do this once a month, at least, moreover your kids will gain in a real understanding of the Mass.

now for the “pageant” part, I didn’t respond at first because I had to calm down. There is no licit way for a “pageant” in any sense of the Word to be part of the Liturgy of the Word during Mass. Period. The furthest you could stretch would be multiple proclaimers, but this Gospel does not even lend itself to that because there is no narrator plus dialogue plus narration as there is the in the Passion accounts. In any case, the proclamation of the Passion is the only time this is allowed.

During Mass your option is limited to children dressed as Mary, Joseph, shepherds etc. in the procession, taking their place in a tableau in front of the altar. Obviously only as man children for whom there is enough space. They remain quietly during Mass, kneel at for the Eucharistic prayer etc.

They have done this every year in our parish for all the Christmas eve Masses (4) with the youth doing Midnight Mass. This was the pastor’s concession to a long-standing tradition of an actual pageant, which he sees as an abuse.

Yes, kids who are carefully chosen can sit still that long. Usually their parents are the onese to make the costumes and supervise the proceedings. I have gradually moved this production out of the hands of CCD, using the excuse that the parents who initiated these things have since moved on and nobody else will volunteer (this is the truth). Personally, I think this has no place at Mass and won’t do anything actively to promote it unless I am given a direct order by the pastor.

Another alternative, if as I gather the Children’s Mass is the first of the evening, and in your diocese permission has been given for this to “count” for Christmas, would be a traditional pageant, someone hopefully a deacon proclaiming Luke’s gospel as children in costume pantomime the appropriate actions. any number of carols, religious, traditional, appropriate for the action, can be sung during this time.

This is licit, but here is the problem we have had in parishes where this is done: the whole thing, for the families with children participating, is the pageant, you have the competition for the best spot for eager relatives with camcorders and cameras, and they haul their kids home after the show. For them, Christmas liturgy is now over and they are through. The Mass itself loses relevance, immediacy and importance.

You know your parish best, if you think this won’t be a problem, go for it. but not during Mass. no, grandma can’t stomach that.