"Choice" Is....

  • Thread starter Thread starter PLAL
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
I agree that the pictures save babies. No one is disputing that. The dispute is over where the pictures are showen. As a parent I reserve the right to not have pictures such as these showen to my child before I decide(once again, I am the parent=not anyone else) that a particular child is ready.

My child was severly tramitized by seeing these type of pictures and it turned off the other children with me, so that they (while anti-abortion) will not take up the cause or say anything to others contemplating abortion.

I just can’t agree that harming already born children is fine if it saves the unborn. Do you have numbers to show how many babies were saved by people driving by on the highway and seeing the graphic pictures? Of course not. Your numbers are from people who are contemplating an abortion, not the whole general public. For your numbers to justify the damage to certain members of the general public, your numbers need to include how many people the pictures have enjoined to actively participate against abortion.

The pictures are saving lives. To show them on the highways, etc. where you “have” to see them will probably save lives. Unfortunately, my parental rights are stripped from me and my children “damaged”. Not so sure that is the way to go about fighting abortion.
 
Joab and others…

You’d better take down all the crucifix’s from your house and not bring your child to mass again because Jesus on the cross is extremely graphic.

These arguments are rediculous… parental “rights?” Come on, we are talking about babies being murdered and you are trying to keep us from showing photos in public that save lives and that isn’t Catholic, its playing the same game the other side does, hide the truth to protect the living!
 
Dear bmmckiney,

Please don’t close yourself off by attacking others. Please don’t tell me that I can’t have a crucifix in my home or cannot attend mass with my child.

This is/was a discussion on where graphic abortion pictures should or shouldn’t be showen. If you wish to “discuss” this, then this is the thread for you. If you wish to “rant at or smack down” anyone who has a different belief than you, then maybe a blog by you would be more appropriate. We could choose to either stay on the discussion thread or listen to your blog.

Who are you to decide if one is Catholic enough, if one should not have a crucifix or if one can take their children to mass?

Let’s get back to the discussion.

These pictures are fine in some areas of the general public. We just need some discretion on where. My belief is that not where I cannot protect my children from the images. Outside an abortion clinic, etc. I am fine with. Are they not the ones we are trying to change their minds on? The woman who changed her mind after seeing the truck, could the truck have been parked outside the abortion clinic for her to see there and then have a change of heart? Location is what my objection is.
 
Joab,

I haven’t closed myself off infact I have called out your hypocracy on what you said earlier and you didn’t like it nor are able to respond to it.

It is rediculous that some graphic images or statues are acceptable to you when it is your lord Jesus Christ but when it is an aborted baby you cry fowl. This is common and no surprise.

If you have ever taken your child to a store where there are magazines they are seeing scantly clad women, planes flying into buildings, and other genocides on the front covers and even on the newspapers in your house if they are lying around.

See instead of just accepting two facts, that graphic images save babies much more then other means of activism together combined and that these photos sometimes upset some people but their feelings aren’t worth anything compared to the lives saved all you are doing is focusing on the second part, the feelings.

If you aren’t capable of defending your argument when challenged factually and in a way that doesn’t leave you in a position to respond morally then maybe your beliefs need to change.

Its so funny when you think back to the history of social reform. Noone wanted to see photos of children in the work place being exploited or blacks being beaten nearly to death or attacked by dogs and police but thats what it took to get society as a whole to stand up and demand justice for these people which lead to a change of the laws everywhere.

Discretion isn’t the answer it is showing these photos and ending abortion. Do you really want to end abortion or just talk about it? Its ok if the former but remember talking about abortion does end abortion, talking about every other form of injustice didn’t end that injustice, showing the reality to a public that didn’t want to see this reality is the only thing that historically has worked.

We are trying to change the minds of EVERYONE. The men having sex with women, the women having sex with men, the old and young who vote or might be in a situation to make a difference or talk about abortion.

If we play the location game with these photos we aren’t spreading our message we are spreading theirs because abortion supporters want us to hide the truth because then they win over and over and more babies die. Satan wants us to hide the reality of abortion so more innocent children die and he gets more souls in hell. Don’t play into their hands.
 
So now you are “saying” that Jesus on the cross (pure love for us) is graphic as your pictures of aborted babies? Most of the crucifix’s do not have blood, etc. running down them. In fact, most are bland in the graphic area. I know the one in my church does not even have the color red on it. Of course, I could ask the priest, bishop, etc. for permission to keep the children at home because you said it was to graphic for them to see a crucifix.

Please be most specific on my “hypocracy”. I did not attack you but called your attacks against anyone who is not 100% like you into question. This is a discussion. Let’s discuss. Or is no one allowed to have a difference with you?

You are very forceful against abortion which is fantastic!!!

Maybe my state is “backwoods” or at least the town I live near by. The stores I take children into do not have scantily clad women in the magazine covers. I do not even leave my EMT manuals laying around as some pics in that are to graphic.

I don’t look at pictures of beaten children, slaves, etc. to stop myself from doing this. I just don’t do this as it isn’t something done to me. My parents taught me. I see enough in “real” life as an EMT that my family doesn’t need to see. I don’t drive drunk. Not because of pictures or seeing the real results, it was something I was taught by my parents.

I don’t think that the graphic abortion pictures are always the best way to stop abortion due to the collateral damage. You think it is no matter what the collateral damage is. Do I have that right?

Discussion.
 
abortionno.org/RCC/graphic/graphic.html

IS IT EVER APPROPRIATE TO PUBLICLY DISPLAY SHOCKING PHOTOGRAPHS?

CBR is often criticized for the public display of graphic abortion images. Children, some people argue, should never be exposed to violent pictures. While CBR does what it can to minimize such exposure, it should be noted that mainstream media outlets often resort to the public display of violent pictures when such imagery is necessary to the news they are covering. These disturbing images are often seen by our children on television, on the front pages and covers of the newspapers and magazines delivered into our homes and on the covers of the news magazines featured in the magazine racks near the cash registers at every grocery store to which virtually every parent in America takes their children. Some parents are in such massive denial about the fact that their children are seeing these photos that they even make the laughable assertion that they “shield their children’s eyes” from offending images at the supermarket. PULLEEEEZE! Do they really think we are delusional enough to believe fictions as bogus as that one? Every day in the United States, approximately 4,000 abortions are performed. Abortion is an act of violence that kills a baby. Pictures prove that. So long as America accepts the practice of abortion, CBR will continue to show America pictures of abortion.

Joab and others, you will want to then visit the top link, no graphic abortion photos, just mainstream media photos, you will find this interesting.
 
When American troops were fighting in Somalia, and the graphic images of the mutilated American soldiers being dragged through the streets came on TV, America lost it’s resolve and public outcry forced the State Department to remove troops from the area.

Think about the images that have defined our history - the Vietnamese Buddhist monk setting himself on fire in protest, the Chinese teenager standing in front of a tank in Tiananman Square, or photos of prisoners in Nazi concentration camps.

All of these are examples of images that shocked the public and were catalysts for change. As much as it may make some people uncomfortable, our history is full of instances where the right images at the right time can spur change.
 
To those who say, “my child was traumatized” by seeing such pictures, I ask a question: Was it the pictures that traumatized your child, or was it your reaction to them?
 
Vern,

It really doesn’t matter because not only is there no evidence to show that children are traumatized from these photos nor has any woman who has had an abortion committed suicide from seeing these photos.

The amazing fact is that where these photos are shown on trucks or on campus or on the sidewalk, lives are often saved. That is the real issue at hand, do we care more about our preceived view of a child’s temporary feelings or tears or the lives of unborn babies that are being taken.
 
bmmckinney said:
Vern,

It really doesn’t matter because not only is there no evidence to show that children are traumatized from these photos nor has any woman who has had an abortion committed suicide from seeing these photos.

The amazing fact is that where these photos are shown on trucks or on campus or on the sidewalk, lives are often saved. That is the real issue at hand, do we care more about our preceived view of a child’s temporary feelings or tears or the lives of unborn babies that are being taken.
Click to expand...
You’re right of course. Why people who claim to be pro-life object so strenuously to these pictures is something I can only surmise.
 
Well Vern, most of those people aren’t prolife and they use the only avenue left to them, to try to hide the truth.

These photos prove to anyone with a functioning conscience that abortion is an act of violence that kills a baby. It then puts the viewer into a corner and that person can either decide to care about other people and show the truth that will save babies, or they can be selfish and come up with any reason under the sun that these photos should not be shown.

Showing the truth is never a sin no matter how hard that truth is to accept.
 
bmmckinney said:
Well Vern, most of those people aren’t prolife and they use the only avenue left to them, to try to hide the truth.

These photos prove to anyone with a functioning conscience that abortion is an act of violence that kills a baby. It then puts the viewer into a corner and that person can either decide to care about other people and show the truth that will save babies, or they can be selfish and come up with any reason under the sun that these photos should not be shown.

Showing the truth is never a sin no matter how hard that truth is to accept.
Click to expand...
Of course you are right. But we don’t show the truth for its own sake. We show it for the sake of changing people’s attitudes and values, and thereby saving innocent human lives.
 
We have had this discussion already. Yes there is evidence that such pictures can and do upset and traumatize young children in certain circumstances. BTW< it isn’t only these pictures I would wish to shield my children from. I screen tv viewing before letting my kids see it, I don’t allow graphic pictures in my home and, yes, I have even asked local shops to put filthy magazines up on the top shelf where they can’t be seen by little people. And, on the whole my children were and are very sheltered from the atrocities of the world for as long as possible. There is plenty of time for them to see the evils of the world. They may as well enjoy the innocence and naivity God has given them for as long as they can. Believe me, childhood doesn’t last long enough!
bmmckinney said:
Vern,

It really doesn’t matter because not only is there no evidence to show that children are traumatized from these photos nor has any woman who has had an abortion committed suicide from seeing these photos.

The amazing fact is that where these photos are shown on trucks or on campus or on the sidewalk, lives are often saved. That is the real issue at hand, do we care more about our preceived view of a child’s temporary feelings or tears or the lives of unborn babies that are being taken.
Click to expand...
 
mapleoak said:
Guilty consciences usually have a need to hide the truth.
Click to expand...
That’s one theory – although I’m inclined to think it’s the Union Syndrome at work.

In or about 1816 the steamboat Union left the dock at Alexandria, Virginia headed for Washington, and blew up in the middle of the Potomac. There was an investigation, reported in the Alexandria Gazette.

The Union was a new boat and there were numerous leaks in the steam system. That was normal, and such leaks would “heal” as sediment and scale built up in the system. But someone wanted to speed the “healing” up, and shoveled horse manure into the filler pipe. That blocked the line, and the engine blew up.

To this day, however, there are people who think you can solve problems by adding horse manure.😛
 
I am still in waiting for bmmckinney to either show my “hypocracy” or apologize for letting the emotions in the way of the discussion. I would think that bmmckinney is just being emotional about abortion( as a person should be)and not rude.

Yes, Vern, my child was tramatized. I have the bills to prove it. My son has special needs. Not every special needs child is it physical or physical only. I was unable to avoid the pictures. Our stores don’t have those types of magazines, we must be to backwoods. Of course, we live rural to a town of less than 2000 people, so I would assume that people that want the girlie mags order them or buy them in the city. We have locks on our internet so that this particular child will not accidentaly see certain images. We are usually only on religious sites anyway.

My view is that this has yet to be proved that this is the only way, the best way to stop abortion. I agree and believe these pictures are helpful. I just think that showing them on the side of the road is not right.

I would like drunk driving to stop. I do not, however, take graphic pictures of the result of drunk drivers crashing and stand them on the side of the road for all to see. I don’t see where young children would benefit from this. Same as these pictures. I don’t see any benefit to young children seeing this. I think if parents wanted thier children to see such pictures, they would come to a MADD group(mothers against drunk drivers),Pro-life, etc.
 
joab said:
Yes, Vern, my child was tramatized. I have the bills to prove it. My son has special needs. Not every special needs child is it physical or physical only. I was unable to avoid the pictures. Our stores don’t have those types of magazines, we must be to backwoods. Of course, we live rural to a town of less than 2000 people, so I would assume that people that want the girlie mags order them or buy them in the city. We have locks on our internet so that this particular child will not accidentaly see certain images. We are usually only on religious sites anyway.
Click to expand...
How was your child traumatized? And by what or whom?
joab said:
My view is that this has yet to be proved that this is the only way, the best way to stop abortion. I agree and believe these pictures are helpful. I just think that showing them on the side of the road is not right.
Click to expand...
We don’t have to prove to everyone in the country that something works before we try it – if that were the rule, we’d never be able to do anything.

But those with direct, hands-on experience have reported positive results.
joab said:
I would like drunk driving to stop. I do not, however, take graphic pictures of the result of drunk drivers crashing and stand them on the side of the road for all to see.
Click to expand...
But others do.
joab said:
I don’t see where young children would benefit from this.
Click to expand...
Where is it written that everyone must “see” where there is a benefit before we can do anything?
joab said:
Same as these pictures. I don’t see any benefit to young children seeing this. I think if parents wanted thier children to see such pictures, they would come to a MADD group(mothers against drunk drivers),Pro-life, etc.
Click to expand...
Ah, so only children of pro-life parents would be able see these pictures?
 
Vern,
As I posted in a previous thread, my child was tramatized while we were trapped on a road going by those pictures. He has the mind of a 10 year old in social situations, he is super “intelligent” in the book work(way above most college professors), but has a 3 year old mind with emotions. He will probably not live outside our home when he is an adult. The pictures “stuck” in his mind. We had to cut the vacation and drive straight through from FL back home. We drove to patient lock-up thearpy with the luggage and other children still with. After about 2 months he was allowed into residential treatment and his meds reevaluated. He agreed to not kill abortion providers, nurses, doctors, electric company officials, etc. The list was endless. He spent the next 6 months working on why everyone connected to an abortion clinic should be allowed to live. Since he has been home, we are working with inhome thearpy to see if he can be allowed back into the school and such. He will great strangers with the statement- Hi, I am ______. If you are helping abortion people, I will have to kill you. This was said to the electrician from the power company working on a downed line. He has said this to almost every one who has entered our property.
I realize that my child’s reaction is not norm. But the other kids in the car, who had to put up with the fallout, are mad against the group that showed the pictures. As they have become adults, this has turned them away from the cause. They in turn influenze other children away from the cause. I have even overheard one say" _________ is a reason abortion exists." They are so disgusted about the whole situation that I believe less of their peers are getting information/pressure against abortion from them.

Now, is my child’s damage worth it? Did the message going out that day reach anyone and stop an abortion? I will never know but do know how much I have already given for the cause. When I am ridiculed for my objection to the pictures, I wish that person to walk my shoes with this child before and after the viewing and explain why I should be glad that this happened.

bmmckinney,

Where is the “hypocracy” you said I showed? I have asked you a few times now and you are quiet on it. If I need to correct that sin, I need to know when I am doing it. Please tell.
 
mapleoak said:
Guilty consciences usually have a need to hide the truth.
Click to expand...
Lots of folks here who think small children should be subjected to violence are not guilty of abortion. I don’t think small children should see photos of STDs either (no doubt these qualify as affective). Will you now assume I’ve got a raging case of the clap?

I think those photos are an educational tool, but not for everyone and not in all circumstances.
 
joab said:
Vern,
As I posted in a previous thread, my child was tramatized while we were trapped on a road going by those pictures. He has the mind of a 10 year old in social situations, he is super “intelligent” in the book work(way above most college professors), but has a 3 year old mind with emotions. He will probably not live outside our home when he is an adult. The pictures “stuck” in his mind. We had to cut the vacation and drive straight through from FL back home. We drove to patient lock-up thearpy with the luggage and other children still with. After about 2 months he was allowed into residential treatment and his meds reevaluated. He agreed to not kill abortion providers, nurses, doctors, electric company officials, etc. The list was endless. He spent the next 6 months working on why everyone connected to an abortion clinic should be allowed to live. Since he has been home, we are working with inhome thearpy to see if he can be allowed back into the school and such. He will great strangers with the statement- Hi, I am ______. If you are helping abortion people, I will have to kill you. This was said to the electrician from the power company working on a downed line. He has said this to almost every one who has entered our property.
I realize that my child’s reaction is not norm. But the other kids in the car, who had to put up with the fallout, are mad against the group that showed the pictures. As they have become adults, this has turned them away from the cause. They in turn influenze other children away from the cause. I have even overheard one say" _________ is a reason abortion exists." They are so disgusted about the whole situation that I believe less of their peers are getting information/pressure against abortion from them.

Now, is my child’s damage worth it? Did the message going out that day reach anyone and stop an abortion? I will never know but do know how much I have already given for the cause. When I am ridiculed for my objection to the pictures, I wish that person to walk my shoes with this child before and after the viewing and explain why I should be glad that this happened.

bmmckinney,

Where is the “hypocracy” you said I showed? I have asked you a few times now and you are quiet on it. If I need to correct that sin, I need to know when I am doing it. Please tell.
Click to expand...
Without meaning to offend you, let me point out that chidren’s reactions are often not caused by what they see, but by their parent’s reactions to them.

Unless you exhibited no reaction at all to the pictures – didn’t even notice them – it is not possible to say whether your child was responting to the pictures or to your reactions.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top