Choir Quandary

[JoyIsLikeRain]

I’ve never been a big fan of the parish a few blocks away from my home. A main reason was because their former music director was simply not good.
Good pianist, but he would choose complex, unknown selections that usually were Bel Canto (in English) or 18th century Anglican stuff. Occasionally, he’d do some sappy showtune-like stuff as well. Some people may like that, but as a former choir member from a different parish, I was turned off by this when thinking of joining the choir here.

I’m fortunate to live in a urban area, and participated with the choir at a parish just a few parishes over. Nice group, great selection of music (reverent; some traditional, some modern, some Latin).

I still go to the parish by me occasionally, and noticed recently they have a new, young choir director. I like what I heard one Sunday, and I asked if he needed a new choir member. He said yes, and told me to come to practice last night.

I went - nice group, but most members were far older than me. I wasn’t put off by that.

What did put me off was the music. Apparently that Sunday I had gone was just a fluke.

We had to practice terribly theatrical, sappy-softy new selections that have been published in the last decade.
Lots of very awkward, bi-lingual new hymns that are out of my range (I like Spanish hymns, but these were just awful).

The final nail in the coffin was a 16th century Anglican hymn (If Ye Love Me) with 4 parts and it was bad. Very bad. We all expressed our frustration and reservations with this hymn, and the director still pushed for this item.

(Sorry for those who love Tallis, but we’re not a scola. Just an average neighborhood parish choir).

The members sensed my frustration and bewilderment, as most of the stuff was out of my range. Several said to me after “I hope you’ll stay…we really need new members…”

I felt guilty, but I really have no desire to participate with this director and his selections further.

Should I show up to a Mass and try it out, then call it quits?
Or, should I simply tell the director “Look, as much as I want to help out, I really cannot tackle your selections, and I doubt I’ll be of much help to you” ?

 

[angelic06]

If you don’t mind telling us: what type of choir are you looking for?

I do not mean this badly, I am just curious: are you looking for a choir whose task it is to sing the melody and lead the congregation in song? There is one in almost every parish where I live.

I say this because my frame of reference is different. I actually looked forward to being in a parish choir which sings in parts (SATB).

(I am not here to start a fist fight on which is better. I really do want to know what you are looking for.)

 

[pianistclare]

My first thought is that he must think the choir is pretty good. Throwing random hard pieces out means he has confidence and also that he wants to grow the repertoire. Not necessarily a bad thing. Few choirs master a piece on the first reading.
Also, Directors tend to pick selections whose words can be closely identified with the readings. So that may be a reason why he selected that piece.
I’d love to see more choirs develop diverse music. Going to a parish that sings the same hymns year after year can be comforting and at the same time dreary.
A lot of the Spanish (Mexican pieces) are in the key of D, which is the preferred key for guitarists who play by ear. Unfortunately it’s hard for people to sing in that key. Does the choirmaster not offer 4 part harmony? Are you an alto?

And for the previous poster…it likely will develop into a fight if more people weigh in…I seldom post in the Liturgy threads because people immediately get on one side of the aisle or the other and have little respect for those who have different views.

OP, if you sing well enough and are not terribly shy, maybe your could offer to cantor a Mass each week. Many people want to join the choir, but it’s hard for Directors to enlist cantors. Might be a cool option for you!
Peace!
pianist

 

[agapewolf]

When I started as a music director at my parish a long while ago, there were several people that judged me from ONE rehearsal and left without even so much as a word.

ONE REHEARSAL!

I had to find my way through a maze of finding the ability and expectations of a choir, fight the comparison to the last director.

I also didn’t want to change stuff from what was before me so drastically. I believe when there is a change in leadership, there is already trauma and enough change going on. I wanted to keep things stable for awhile and slowly rotate in better music and new processes.

It took me a good year or 2 to REALLY settle in. It would have been much shorter if people would have been honest with me, and came with an open mind and flexibility and understanding that we are all finding our way together.

I’m not suggesting you stick with it that long…but instead of just up and quitting, make an appointment with them and tell them what you REALLY think. It doesn’t help if you just skip town.

 

[TimothyH]

I still go to the parish by me occasionally, and noticed recently they have a new, young choir director. I like what I heard one Sunday, and I asked if he needed a new choir member. He said yes, and told me to come to practice last night.

I went - nice group, but most members were far older than me. I wasn’t put off by that.

What difference does anyone’s age have to do with anything? Why do you feel the need to mention that you weren’t uncomfortable around people much older than you? If this is just about music then why bring up anyone’s age at all?

Age is clearly enough of an issue that you feel the need to point out age twice.

-Tim-

 

[pianistclare]

When I started as a music director at my parish a long while ago, there were several people that judged me from ONE rehearsal and left without even so much as a word.

ONE REHEARSAL!

I had to find my way through a maze of finding the ability and expectations of a choir, fight the comparison to the last director.

I also didn’t want to change stuff from what was before me so drastically. I believe when there is a change in leadership, there is already trauma and enough change going on. I wanted to keep things stable for awhile and slowly rotate in better music and new processes.

It took me a good year or 2 to REALLY settle in. It would have been much shorter if people would have been honest with me, and came with an open mind and flexibility and understanding that we are all finding our way together.

I’m not suggesting you stick with it that long…but instead of just up and quitting, make an appointment with them and tell them what you REALLY think. It doesn’t help if you just skip town.

Good advice here ^^^

When I came into the last choir I led as Director, I got all kinds of blowback from the group. They were convinced that they had little ability and were “doomed” to super easy, trite music. A copy of years of putting the more challenging pieces in front of them…they developed into the best choir around. The Archbishop praised them SINCERELY each time he came. Not just the "I want to thank the choir, the servers, the people…etc. But a leaning over and telling the Pastor, Man, your choir is excellent! Eventually they realized that with the proper focus and work ethic, they could indeed read anything and do it with reverence and excellence.
It just takes time. In the meantime, God gave you that voice! Get even! LOL
Just kidding. Most don’t care to sing…if you have a gift, please do use it in a choir.
**It’s a prayer. **

 

[SMHW]

If you don’t mind telling us: what type of choir are you looking for?

I do not mean this badly, I am just curious: are you looking for a choir whose task it is to sing the melody and lead the congregation in song? There is one in almost every parish where I live.

I say this because my frame of reference is different. I actually looked forward to being in a parish choir which sings in parts (SATB).

(I am not here to start a fist fight on which is better. I really do want to know what you are looking for.)

I wondered this too.

(BTW, Tallis was Catholic even though much of his work was composed during the reigns of Henry VIII and his three children and would thus be best known to Anglicans.)

 

[JoyIsLikeRain]

If you don’t mind telling us: what type of choir are you looking for?

I do not mean this badly, I am just curious: are you looking for a choir whose task it is to sing the melody and lead the congregation in song? There is one in almost every parish where I live.

I say this because my frame of reference is different. I actually looked forward to being in a parish choir which sings in parts (SATB).

(I am not here to start a fist fight on which is better. I really do want to know what you are looking for.)

Well, it’s not so much as looking for a choir, but more like getting involved in the parish.

I know no choir is perfect. Maybe I had unrealistic expectations, but I’m a guy and sing baritone.

 

[JoyIsLikeRain]

It took me a good year or 2 to REALLY settle in. It would have been much shorter if people would have been honest with me, and came with an open mind and flexibility and understanding that we are all finding our way together.

I’m not suggesting you stick with it that long…but instead of just up and quitting, make an appointment with them and tell them what you REALLY think. It doesn’t help if you just skip town.

That’s sound advice, thank you.

The director is new. I’m glad he doesn’t do singy-songy, trite hymns that people like because they heard it 18 years ago at a funeral.

However, I want to tell him that his selections are too awkward, especially for someone with my range.

 

[agapewolf]

That’s sound advice, thank you.

The director is new. I’m glad he doesn’t do singy-songy, trite hymns that people like because they heard it 18 years ago at a funeral.

However, I want to tell him that his selections are too awkward, especially for someone with my range.

Here’s the thing though-- I had to keep some of those trite songs in, and I still use a few of them due to the emotional attachment the parish has to them. (as long as it isn’t bad theology) A choir director just chopping off everything that everyone knows and finds comfort in immediately is not really doing a good job transitioning.

 

[JoyIsLikeRain]

Here’s the thing though-- I had to keep some of those trite songs in, and I still use a few of them due to the emotional attachment the parish has to them. (as long as it isn’t bad theology) A choir director just chopping off everything that everyone knows and finds comfort in immediately is not really doing a good job transitioning.

Good to know. I know talented musicians are hard to come by and keep in parishes these days. And, I know everyone can be a critic.

 

[angelic06]

S ing

Well, it’s not so much as looking for a choir, but more like getting involved in the parish.

I know no choir is perfect. Maybe I had unrealistic expectations, but I’m a guy and sing baritone.

I am also a guy and sing baritone.

 

[JoyIsLikeRain]

Update:

Decided to give it another try and sang with the director and choir at Sunday morning mass.

Boy, that was awkward.

The Introit was an odd a capella arrangement of humming and singing while the director sang as cantor during the procession. I don’t remember the hymn.

It finally became like work to me during the Gospel - the director played the piano softly during the whole Gospel, then the priest would pause at certain points while we had to sing some verses. I didn’t know we’d be doing that, and I don’t care for that when I’ve seen it done at other parishes.

Apparently they had been singing “Take, O Take me As I Am” for the past few Sunday, but different verses per Sunday.

I think I’ll retire my musical career at this parish.

 

[27lw]

Yikes - - the piano playing during the Gospel does sound…unusual. I would be tempted to get out of there myself. Especially if you have a choir / parish where you are happy.

 

[pianistclare]

Yikes - - the piano playing during the Gospel does sound…unusual. I would be tempted to get out of there myself. Especially if you have a choir / parish where you are happy.

Agreed. Sorry you’ve had such a bad experience.
It’s things like this that drive people nuts.
Peace.