Choosing a non-Catholic denomination?

[Horton]

If I told you you would still disagree. You are missing the greater point. The methodology shapes and reveals the meaning. That’s why we arrive at a different interpretation.

So you can’t. I am not missing any point here. The non Catholic Christians must make this so much more complicated than it is to fit within their own narrative. If the Bible alone has absolute truth why are there so many different denominations? If the Bible alone is sufficient as the basis of faith, why are there more than 30,000 different choices of how to practice that faith?

The Catholic Church has remained true to the teachings in the Bible, teachings from Tradition, and teachings of the Magisterium for 2000 years. I was a Protestant who converted to the Catholic Church. I can tell you that reading the Bible as a Protestant always seemed a bit schizophrenic, reading it as a Catholic, it all comes together, makes perfect sense. Reading as a Protestant, one just jumps over verses that don’t fit the Protestant narrative. As a Catholic there is no need to do that because it all just flows together and makes sense.

 

[Horton]

JOHN 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Let’s put verse 63 in a bit of context:
The Words of Eternal Life. 60 Then many of his disciples who were listening said, “This saying is hard; who can accept it?” 61 Since Jesus knew that his disciples were murmuring about this, he said to them, “Does this shock you? 62 What if you were to see the Son of Man ascending to where he was before? 63 It is the spirit that gives life, while the flesh is of no avail. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and life. 64 But there are some of you who do not believe.” Jesus knew from the beginning the ones who would not believe and the one who would betray him. 65 And he said, “For this reason I have told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by my Father.”

In context with the verses before and after it is clear Jesus is acknowledging what he is saying is difficult for many, that they must choose to have life in him or have no life at all. The Bread of Life Discourse was never meant to be read and interpreted by verses here and there. It must be read as a whole passage to get the true meaning of what Jesus was saying.

 

[TomH1]

Off the top of my head Catholics don’t believe the Genesis and Noah’s accounts

The Church teaches they are not to be taken literally.

Subjecting scripture to third party sources denigrates its authority.

No, it does not! The Bible was compiled by the Catholic Church and God gave the Catholic Church the power to interpret scripture.

I do know firsthand for certain that many Catholics do not believe what they are told to believe by the church.

That does not provide evidence of anything other than there are members of the Catholic Church who do not hold to the entire Deposit of the Faith. There’s nothing unique in that. I suspect it is so in non-Catholic Christian churches and ecclesial communities and in non-Christian faiths.

 

[TheRoyalPain]

Huh really

 

[Bushum]

The Church teaches they are not to be taken literally.

Can you provide a source for this? It is my understanding that the Church is neutral on this and allows Catholics the choice to decide. I personally think it’s pretty obvious that it’s not completely literal and have always thought so, even as a Protestant.

For example it is stated that to God a day is a thousand years and a thousand years a day. I don’t know why we have to do mental gymnastics to try to prove a complete literal 24 hour period. Another example regarding the flood, the “world” is commonly referred to when speaking of the known world of an ancient civilization.

 

[AmericanPatriot]

I was a non-believer who publicly converted to Christianity and was baptized. I’ve never been a member of the Catholic Church. But I wish to share that I agree with those here posting that integrity demands one carefully study and test theology.

Not feelings, or social pressure, etc… but rather the primary driver of such a change should occur after careful research, whichever direction one goes.

Historically, many a believer has found themselves in a bad position void of good feelings and friends. Suffering persecution, for example, just last century over much of the globe under the state atheists in places like the Soviet Union, China, North Korea, Cambodia, etc…

They abided with little but God and their Christian convictions. Make sure you understand your own. You might need them for real.

 

[mcq72]

So what is your literal translation of the above passage? (John 6: 51-57)

Do you take this literally :

"Your ancestors ate the manna in the wilderness, yet they died.
Anyone who eats the bread from heaven, however, will never die. " John 6:49

 

[AlNg]

They are using scripture to interpret scripture but do so with absolutely no consistency.

Is the Roman Catholic interpretation of scripture consistent?
There are many verses which appear inconsistent or hyperbolic in Scripture.
Already we have seen one of many:

“Anyone who eats the bread from heaven, however, will never die.”

Now suppose that someone is in mortal sin, say for example, has implanted a birth control device which she knows to be wrong, or is taking the pill which she knows to be wrong and eats the bread from heaven but does not repent before her death on earth. Then what?
Or take the verse:
“… I say to you, if you have faith as a mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move: and nothing will be impossible for you.”
Has anyone ever moved a mountain this way?

 

[mcq72]

before her death on earth

You miss the literal intent…ther.e should be no death

 

[AlNg]

You miss the literal intent…ther.e should be no death

Right. I don’t see that happening.

 

[Horton]

I’m not the one making the claim that the sole source of knowledge is found in the Bible.

 

[lilypadrees]

Because we’re human beings, each of us will die physically. Jesus is the bread from Heaven, the Living Bread. Eat of the Living Bread and you will have eternal life with Him in Heaven.

 

[C.Ray]

People living to 800-900 years?

I am always stumped by Christians who simply cannot take seriously claims that perople lived 800 years, or or that there was a deluge, or that Mary was a perpetual virgin, that she was assumed into Heaven and so on, when they will willingly believe Jesus was God, that he rose from the dead, or that he walked on water and so on. It is a highly selective skepticism.

 

[LutheranScholar]

Indeed. People tend to forget that at one point in time, people could live to what we see now as fantastically old ages. God arranges things His way. Human understanding is far too limited to grasp things like that rationally. Faith is called for.

 

[Isearch]

For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink.

• John 6:55, NLT

Our Lord Jesus Himself clarifies that this is literal. You don’t see this type of language when He said, in some scriptural passages, that He is the Door or that He is the Vine.

 

[mcq72]

Right. I don’t see that happening.

correct, because it is not literal that way…perhaps the eating of His flesh the next verses is not literal the same way also.

 

[mcq72]

Because we’re human beings, each of us will die physically.

"Anyone who eats the bread from heaven, however, will never die.”…I agree with you, because i do not take it physically literally (never dying) , as i do not take the eating of flesh as physical literally.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

The Catholics I have known who chose another non-Catholic denomination and didn’t go full-on non-Christian (e.g. Buddhism or Hinduism) did so for one of the following reasons:

1. They had a non-Catholic parent or spouse and decided to join that parent or spouse’s church
2. They decided to join a different church, usually Baptist or Evangelical, because it had more social opportunities, people were friendlier there, more kids’ activities happening, better music, better preaching, livelier services, etc. In many cases they become convinced that the theology of the church they join is correct, but I don’t know anybody who sits down, investigates theologies first and then selects the church they think is right. It’s more like they get invited to a cookout or a presentation and from there they start hearing about the theology and eventually start thinking “yeah it’s right”.

 

[Horton]

"Anyone who eats the bread from heaven, however, will never die.”…I agree with you, because i do not take it physically literally (never dying) , as i do not take the eating of flesh as physical literally.

Our physical bodies will die but we will have eternal life with Christ i.e. never die. We consume the body & blood of Christ in the species of bread & wine at Mass. This is very clear through out the Gospels. Protestants are like those who felt Jesus’ saying was too hard and walked away.

 

[mcq72]

Our physical bodies will die but we will have eternal life with Christ i.e. never die.

Agree. You take it from the physical to the spiritual but you do not do so a few verses later when it comes to eating His flesh. It is an eternal spiritual life and a spiritual eating. As I believe Augustine said, leave your teeth and bellies behind.

Protestants are like those who felt Jesus’ saying was too hard and walked away.

Neither you or I are like those who had no faith, who do not belief that Jesus has the words of eternal life.

We walk away from the literal understanding of eating that the unbelievers had. We do not walk away from spiritually eating and partaking of His death and Ascension that is understood in said passage.