Choosing Godparents issue

[Stilgar]

I have a problem that has been really heavy on me and I need some opinions from others as to what I should do… if anything. My wife’s brother and wife recently had their second child. My wife and I are the god parents to the first child and I really took that choice seriously and as an honor. Now they have decided who they are going to have as the god parents for their second child and I’m really troubled by it. One person is a non practicing Christian (they won’t say if he is Catholic or not… just that he at least goes to church on Easter and Christmas) and the other person is Jewish. Now I know both of the people and they are very nice people and I have no problem with them at all. However, it seems like the choice of god parent is being turned into a “my favorite friend” instead of what I understand it should be.

I’m a recent convert to the Catholic church, so I know I’m still new to everything, but I really take this sort of stuff seriously (otherwise why would I have come to the Catholic church). My wife has talked to her brother about this and he just blew her off and told her not to worry that they were having the baptism at a church that doesn’t ask questions. I’ve been to this church with them before and they are right… mass is super quick and when it comes to marriages and baptisms things are done as quickly as possible. The parish I attend isn’t super hardcore, but the Monsignor seems to really know the faith and makes it a point to pass that along to others. He always explains why we Catholics do the things we do and now I understand that everything that happens in the church has a specific reason to it.

At one time this wouldn’t have been a problem. My wife’s grandmother was really the “spirital rock” of the family and was the one that made sure everyone made it to mass. She would have really stepped in at a time like this, but since she passed away the other year there is no elder that really fills that role in the family. When my wife has mentioned this to her family, they just say to leave it alone, that the baby is being baptised and that is all that matters. In fact when she started to press the matter a bit more, they really didn’t understand the problem. I think maybe my wife and I are a bit more into our faith just

I don’t want to press this issue too hard for the risk of really starting trouble in the family, but I feel very strong that people should take their faith seriously. Now, don’t get me wrong, I’ve got plenty of problems myself and I know I have LOTS of work to do on my spiritual life. Also, sometimes I fear that this is a case of seeing the speck in my brother’s eye, while not noticing the splinter in mine.

I just keep feeling that if it is important enough to have a church baptism and have god parents, it is important enough to do it right. I just feel like the baptism is being treated like an excuse for a party afterward and no one is really taking it seriously or even has a true grasp of what is going on (that is another issue altogether).

I’m sorry for rambling on, but I just needed to get this off my chest. Even if no one has an answer for me, I appreciate just having a place I can talk with others about this sort of thing.

Thanks

 

[Phemie]

They need to be given the straight goods on who may and may not be a godparent.

The rules are simple:

Can. 874 §1. To be permitted to take on the function of sponsor a person must:

1/ be designated by the one to be baptized, by the parents or the person who takes their place, or in their absence by the pastor or minister and have the aptitude and intention of fulfilling this function;

2/ have completed the sixteenth year of age, unless the diocesan bishop has established another age, or the pastor or minister has granted an exception for a just cause;

3/ be a Catholic who has been confirmed and has already received the most holy sacrament of the Eucharist and who leads a life of faith in keeping with the function to be taken on;

4/ not be bound by any canonical penalty legitimately imposed or declared;

5/ not be the father or mother of the one to be baptized.

§2. A baptized person who belongs to a non-Catholic ecclesial community is not to participate except together with a Catholic sponsor and then only as a witness of the baptism.

The Jew, lovely person though he/she may be doesn’t meet any of the requirements. The other certainly doesn’t meet #3 and may not even meet #1, since they are not confirming that the person is in fact Catholic.

 

[stbruno]

Most parishes require a baptism class and some proof of the religion of the godparent, even the most lax parishes will ask that question. Not only does the person need to be Catholic, but they need to be confirmed in their faith. So keep praying. Maybe they will ask you to be the godparents to their second child as well.

 

[Phemie]

Most parishes require a baptism class and some proof of the religion of the godparent, even the most lax parishes will ask that question.

Don’t be too sure. I’ve run into sets of non-Catholic godparents more than once in my parish. Nobody had bothered to ask the question.

 

[Stilgar]

Don’t be too sure. I’ve run into sets of non-Catholic godparents more than once in my parish. Nobody had bothered to ask the question.

This is very much the case in this particular parish. In fact it seems to be known that this is a parish that doesn’t ask too many questions. I know another couple that did the same at this very parish, one godparent being Catholic, the other was Jewish. As far as instruction given by the parish, my wife and I attended the “instruction class” when we were set to be the Godparents of the first child. It was the priest and one other person really reading from a script to a group of about 25 people. The only real requirement that I even remember was a small donation if your child was baptised with a group during an assigned time or a larger donation if you wished a private baptism. My wife and I both thought that just seemed odd.

However, I guess my other issue is just the mindset of the parents (her brother and his wife). I believe they both understand this is not how it should be, but this is what they want and as long as they can find a parish that lets you “sneak” it in then God won’t care or notice.

I don’t know… I suppose this is all a bit of frustration with not just the parish but with family and I really needed a forum like this where I could discuss this with others. I can’t tell if I’m taking this too seriously just because I so recently went through RCIA and I want to know all I can about the faith (good, bad or indifferent).

Once again… please pardon me if I seem like I’m on a rant… I just haven’t been able to talk with anyone other than my wife about this.

 

[Phemie]

I don’t know… I suppose this is all a bit of frustration with not just the parish but with family and I really needed a forum like this where I could discuss this with others. I can’t tell if I’m taking this too seriously just because I so recently went through RCIA and I want to know all I can about the faith (good, bad or indifferent).

Once again… please pardon me if I seem like I’m on a rant… I just haven’t been able to talk with anyone other than my wife about this.

I don’t think you are taking this ‘too seriously’; it’s that someone isn’t taking this seriously enough.

Have you thought about approaching the priest and, without pointing fingers, ask if you’ve misunderstood the requirements for being a sponsor/godparent? He’ll ask why you’re asking and you can lay out what you’ve said here.

 

[Stilgar]

I don’t think you are taking this ‘too seriously’; it’s that someone isn’t taking this seriously enough.

Have you thought about approaching the priest and, without pointing fingers, ask if you’ve misunderstood the requirements for being a sponsor/godparent? He’ll ask why you’re asking and you can lay out what you’ve said here.

The idea crossed my mind, but from previous experience trying to set up a meeting with this priest you have to go through a secretary/handler that refers you to different church staff depending on what your questions are. I won’t go into the details of that experience, other than to say I would not be considered important enough to be able to meet him.

 

[Thomas63116]

I don’t think you are taking this ‘too seriously’; it’s that someone isn’t taking this seriously enough.

Have you thought about approaching the priest and, without pointing fingers, ask if you’ve misunderstood the requirements for being a sponsor/godparent? He’ll ask why you’re asking and you can lay out what you’ve said here.

I agree that someone is not taking this seriously enough (the parents, the priest). The question is what, if anything, should the OP do about it in this particular situation.

In my opinion, going behind the parents back and approaching the priest could backfire, especially if the relatives ever found out. This could be misunderstood as “sour-grapes” that you were not chosen as the godparents again and could seriously undermine your relationship with them.

While having sponsors (Godparents) who do not meet the definition required by canon law would be illicit, I don’t think it would impact the validity of the baptism (someone please correct me if I’m wrong). I’m not sure it’s worth starting World War III in the family over this.

This is even more complicated because these folks are your in-laws, not your blood relatives. I’m not sure it’s your responsibility (or even your wife’s responsibility) to be the “enforcer” in this situation.

 

[Phemie]

It doesn’t affect the validity of the baptism but it perpetuates the idea that godparents have no role to play beyond the day of the baptism and in the long run that is detrimental to both the Catholic family and the Church.

If parents truly knew and understood what godparents are all about they would never believe that a non-Christian could help them raise their child in the Catholic Christian Faith.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Now they have decided who they are going to have as the god parents for their second child and I’m really troubled by it. One person is a non practicing Christian (they won’t say if he is Catholic or not… just that he at least goes to church on Easter and Christmas)…

If not Practicing Catholic in good standing with the Church they cannot be permitted to be a Godparent.

If not Catholic, they may not be a Godparent, but only a Christian Witness along with a Catholic Godparent, however they must be validly Baptized and in good standing with their Community.

One MUST be Catholic, qualified and practicing in good standing with the Catholic Church.

“and the other person is Jewish.” NOT even permitted to be a witness.

You could speak with your pastor, explaining that this concerns you. Let him take it up with the other pastor or the diocese.

 

[FrDavid96]

Only a practicing Catholic may be a Godparent. There is no such thing as “non-Catholic Godparents” and certainly no such thing as non-Christian Godparents.

Such persons might indeed be very helpful to the parents in raising the child, and might be good examples of people who live upright lives, but to actually be a Godparent, one must be Catholic (or one Catholic and one Orthodox). There’s a common misunderstand out there that because a non-Catholic Christian may be admitted as a Christian witness along with a Catholic Godparent, that the non-Catholic is also a Godparent, but this is contrary to what the Church defines as Godparent (or the synonym “sponsor”). The purpose of a Christian witness is to give testimony that the baptism did indeed occur (for example if the records are later lost or destroyed).

 

[SVPATRIOT]

The Godmother I chose for my son is a Baptised and Confirmed Catholic, who married a Baptist outside of the Catholic Church. Can she be the Catholic Godmother of my son?

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

The Godmother I chose for my son is a Baptised and Confirmed Catholic, who married a Baptist outside of the Catholic Church. Can she be the Catholic Godmother of my son?

You can look at this one of two ways.

One of the requirements of a godparent from canon law is:

Can. 874 §1. To be permitted to take on the function of sponsor a person must:

3/ be a Catholic who has been confirmed and has already received the most holy sacrament of the Eucharist and who leads a life of faith in keeping with the function to be taken on;

Someone who married outside the church isn’t fulfilling this requirement.

The other way to look at it is what message you would be giving your son. A godparent should be an example of how to live as a Catholic Christian. What kind of example would this person give your son? That the sacraments and the rules regarding them just don’t matter very much. Is that the role model you want for him?

 

[passus]

The Godmother I chose for my son is a Baptised and Confirmed Catholic, who married a Baptist outside of the Catholic Church. Can she be the Catholic Godmother of my son?

Was the marriage ever convalidated or “blessed” by the Church? Was there a dispensation given to allow for a defection from form and therefore provide for a licit Catholic marriage outside the Church? You need to inquire because these are just two cases which would remove any obstruction the otherwise surely invalid marriage would pose.

To be a Godmother, a woman must be a practicing Catholic in good standing with the Church. Someone who is living in an invalid marriage and potentially living in a state of mortal sin (if she and her husband are engaging in marital relations) would not serve as a commendable Catholic role model for a child growing in the faith.

 

[Phemie]

If not Practicing Catholic in good standing with the Church they cannot be permitted to be a Godparent.

If not Catholic, they may not be a Godparent, but only a Christian Witness along with a Catholic Godparent, however they must be validly Baptized and in good standing with their Community.

One MUST be Catholic, qualified and practicing in good standing with the Catholic Church.

“and the other person is Jewish.” NOT even permitted to be a witness.

You could speak with your pastor, explaining that this concerns you. Let him take it up with the other pastor or the diocese.

Last night we had a meeting of the Baptismal Preparation Team to set guidelines for preparation in our parish. When it came to godparents I could quote Canon Law til I was blue in the face but the pastor said “We’ll meet the minimum requirement for validity unless the bishop sets other guidelines: As long as they have one Catholic godparent they can have whoever and however many they want along with that 1 godparent. The questions are not directed at the non-Catholic or non-baptized anyway so what does it matter?”

When I said “Why does the bishop have to set guidelines? Isn’t Canon Law clear enough: 1 male or female or 1 of each gender & Christian witness needs to be baptized?” I was either ignored or told that the law was too restrictive since it didn’t allow for 2 of the same gender.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Last night we had a meeting of the Baptismal Preparation Team to set guidelines for preparation in our parish. When it came to godparents I could quote Canon Law til I was blue in the face but the pastor said “We’ll meet the minimum requirement for validity unless the bishop sets other guidelines: As long as they have one Catholic godparent they can have whoever and however many they want along with that 1 godparent. The questions are not directed at the non-Catholic or non-baptized anyway so what does it matter?”

When I said “Why does the bishop have to set guidelines? Isn’t Canon Law clear enough: 1 male or female or 1 of each gender & Christian witness needs to be baptized?” I was either ignored or told that the law was too restrictive since it didn’t allow for 2 of the same gender.

There is nothing you can do except consult the diocese/Bishop. doing so of course might mean you will not be part of the Baptismal team any longer. Maybe you could write saying that you would like personal clarification on the requirements or qualifications of the Christian Witness and the permitted number and gender of them. See if you get a response.

 

[jdunn41]

I know this is an old thread but it’s along the lines of a question I’ve been murmuring over in my head. Here’s the situation - my brother and sister-in-law (who are non-practicing, she’s not even catholic) had a baby girl in August. The announcement came Saturday night that the baptism had been scheduled for May 14th. I’ll freely admit that I felt some disappointment because this clearly meant that I was not the Godfather. Over Thanksgiving my wife and his wife had a big argument and even though my wife has moved on his wife loves nothing more than to hold a grudge. At first I suspected this might have something to do with their choice but then as I was reading a few items on Godparents today I noticed the Canonical penalty part. I am married to a Jew and our marriage did not get a dispensation. That said, of the four sons my parents had I’m the only left who goes to Mass weekly and particpates in parish activities. I made a point to call my mother this morning and ask if anyone went to Mass with her this morning (two of my brothers were in town for Easter, I live 20 minutes away but attend my own parish). I knew the answer but wanted to make sure, she said the baby girl went with her, everyone else stayed home. My brother also made the inappropriate remark last night that “my Dad wanted her baptized and so she shall be,” which I took as he wasn’t doing it because he wanted to, he’s doing it to make himself look good.

All of this said, I’m still scratching my head over how I was overlooked. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying I practice my faith simply to be a Godparent, I do it because I want to. Basically my question is, if I call and ask why they didn’t choose me, do they have the simple out of saying “you married a Jew.” I’d think they could get a dispensation, after all he married an Agnostic and was still allowed to be married in a Catholic church. (I’m still very upset at the Church over how my wedding went down but that’s an entirely different rant. ) Any advice is appreciated.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

I know this is an old thread but it’s along the lines of a question I’ve been murmuring over in my head. Here’s the situation - my brother and sister-in-law (who are non-practicing, she’s not even catholic) had a baby girl in August. The announcement came Saturday night that the baptism had been scheduled for May 14th. I’ll freely admit that I felt some disappointment because this clearly meant that I was not the Godfather. Over Thanksgiving my wife and his wife had a big argument and even though my wife has moved on his wife loves nothing more than to hold a grudge. At first I suspected this might have something to do with their choice but then as I was reading a few items on Godparents today I noticed the Canonical penalty part. I am married to a Jew and our marriage did not get a dispensation. That said, of the four sons my parents had I’m the only left who goes to Mass weekly and particpates in parish activities. I made a point to call my mother this morning and ask if anyone went to Mass with her this morning (two of my brothers were in town for Easter, I live 20 minutes away but attend my own parish). I knew the answer but wanted to make sure, she said the baby girl went with her, everyone else stayed home. My brother also made the inappropriate remark last night that “my Dad wanted her baptized and so she shall be,” which I took as he wasn’t doing it because he wanted to, he’s doing it to make himself look good.

All of this said, I’m still scratching my head over how I was overlooked. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying I practice my faith simply to be a Godparent, I do it because I want to. Basically my question is, if I call and ask why they didn’t choose me, do they have the simple out of saying “you married a Jew.” I’d think they could get a dispensation, after all he married an Agnostic and was still allowed to be married in a Catholic church. (I’m still very upset at the Church over how my wedding went down but that’s an entirely different rant. ) Any advice is appreciated.

You could just call and say that you received the invitation, and was wondering who the Godparents were going to be ??? Most likely your Marriage situation would be an issue, since the Church most likely dosen’t recognize your Marriage. Your brother maybe felt that you would want to actually fulfill the role of Godparent.

 

[jdunn41]

You could just call and say that you received the invitation, and was wondering who the Godparents were going to be ??? Most likely your Marriage situation would be an issue, since the Church most likely dosen’t recognize your Marriage. Your brother maybe felt that you would want to actually fulfill the role of Godparent.

I guess maybe my biggest concern is if I’m out of line asking why not me. I’m also trying to think of a way to ask and not sound selfish at the same time.