Choosing Hell

[Neil_Anthony]

It’s hard to understand that “people only go to hell if they choose it” - who would choose hell?

Here’s an idea, does it make sense?

WARNING MY IDEA: DOES NOT HAVE NIHIL OBSTAT:
When you die, you are faced with two doors. Inside one is a big licentious immoral party. In the other door is flames, but you get a quick glimpse that after going through the flames you get to a room where you can pray to God who is present there. The more purification you need, the more flames in the second room and the longer the path through it. Then you get to decide which door you pick.

 

[teachccd]

It’s hard to understand that “people only go to hell if they choose it” - who would choose hell?

Here’s an idea, does it make sense?

WARNING MY IDEA: DOES NOT HAVE NIHIL OBSTAT:
When you die, you are faced with two doors. Inside one is a big licentious immoral party. In the other door is flames, but you get a quick glimpse that after going through the flames you get to a room where you can pray to God who is present there. The more purification you need, the more flames in the second room and the longer the path through it. Then you get to decide which door you pick.

Anytime one denies God through sin one chooses to be separated from Him, which is what hell is. If we remain in a state of rebellion and separation in this life God will allow us to continue with our choice for all eternity. Flames would be too good in comparison to our inability to comprehend the eternal absence from God.

As for your idea it’s just that…teachccd

 

[Neil_Anthony]

Anytime one denies God through sin one chooses to be separated from Him, which is what hell is. If we remain in a state of rebellion and separation in this life God will allow us to continue with our choice for all eternity. Flames would be too good in comparison to our inability to comprehend the eternal absence from God.

As for your idea it’s just that…teachccd

Oh, sorry

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Well, people misunderstand what exactly is meant by ‘choosing hell’.

They think that since people are pretty much mostly good, and nobody can ever really sin that much anyway, and even if they DID, if they ‘saw’ a choice of ‘flames, devils, pitchforks, and eternal torment’ versus "love, joy, peace, angels, singing and eternal bliss’, well, people are such RATIONAL creatures, don’t you know, that only an insane person would ‘choose’ hell–and of course we don’t punish somebody who is insane–that would be ‘cruel.’

What they don’t realize is that a person who has truly rejected God has also rejected the Divine Law. That people are not (and have proven this for millennia) ‘rational creatures’ per se. How many people do you know who smoke cigarettes even when diagnosed with lung cancer? Who ‘can’t stop’ themselves from dangerous behaviors of all types, knowing that they are shortening their lives and making their loved ones suffer. . .

And that is exactly what will happen. The ‘choice’ of those who choose hell is **their will. ** Even when ‘their will’ is dangerous, painful, evil. . .they prefer the ‘granting of their evil will’ to the submission of that will to good. A final rejection of God. . . freely entered into.

So here is a clear picture of the ‘two rooms’ of heaven and hell.

In one room: The person can be ‘free’ to do whatever he wants. . .for eternity. . .never to ‘submit’ to another.

In the other: The person will have to freely choose to accept God’s will over his (the person’s) will. . .forever.

NOW we can see clearly why a person would choose hell. To that person, being ‘free’ to do HIS OWN WILL is more important than anything. . . more important than life, more important than whether he ‘suffers’ or not. His choice is his god and it is paramount.

To accept heaven he would have to submit his will to God. And he will not do it. Not even for all the joy, peace, and love in the world. He is trapped in his twisted self-love and self-glorification but he chooses the trap and will not be denied.

 

[StCsDavid]

IMHO, the concept of choosing Hell is not a one time event. I believe some folks have the notion that we die and then are given a choice. It may be that upon death we continue upon the trajectory we began in this life. So if we were oriented towards God we would continue in that direction, but if we were oriented away from Him we would continue in that direction. So mortal sin is changing one’s orientation and trajectory away from God.

Now if one is turning away from God, he is likely turning towards self. The torture of Hell may not be fire and getting poked in the tush by a pitchfork, but rather the totality of self-absorption.

 

[Neil_Anthony]

Well, people misunderstand what exactly is meant by ‘choosing hell’.

They think that since people are pretty much mostly good, and nobody can ever really sin that much anyway, and even if they DID, if they ‘saw’ a choice of ‘flames, devils, pitchforks, and eternal torment’ versus "love, joy, peace, angels, singing and eternal bliss’, well, people are such RATIONAL creatures, don’t you know, that only an insane person would ‘choose’ hell–and of course we don’t punish somebody who is insane–that would be ‘cruel.’

Oops, I should have explained…

In the first post, the flames were purgatory, and the party was hell. Hell is a licentious party, so the sinner would naturally choose that over hell.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

In the first post, the flames were purgatory, and the party was hell. Hell is a licentious party, so the sinner would naturally choose that over hell.

Yes, but that is where, I think, you made your error. It appears from a quick glance that you are saying the person has a choice between a temporary ‘pain’ of flames and then paradise. . .or a ‘licentious party’ with lots of fun.

And the ‘reasonable’ sinner would just ‘slide’ into the fun.

I don’t think so. I don’t think people go ‘unknowingly’ into hell, or think of hell as a party. As I said, I think they go quite knowingly, even knowing that they are headed for an eternity of MISERY. . .no fun at all. And they are perfectly aware as well that the ‘flames’ of purgatory are temporary, and those of hell are NOT.

The way I see your post is that our atheist friends could argue that it was ‘unfair’ to blame the poor sinner for wanting ‘fun’ instead of flames.

But it isn’t like that. They want–they PREFER–eternal flame to eternal bliss. . .they don’t want a ‘party’ over pain.

 

[Neil_Anthony]

Yes, but that is where, I think, you made your error. It appears from a quick glance that you are saying the person has a choice between a temporary ‘pain’ of flames and then paradise. . .or a ‘licentious party’ with lots of fun.

And the ‘reasonable’ sinner would just ‘slide’ into the fun.

Well, I think licentiousness and debauchery lead to a false temporary happiness, then the party ends and they realize what they’ve done.

But it’s wrong to suggest that you get this decision after death. It’s more of a symbol of the choice we face in life I guess. Or sumpthin’

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Well, I think licentiousness and debauchery lead to a false temporary happiness, then the party ends and they realize what they’ve done.

Do you mean the debauchery leads to a false temporary happiness IN HELL, then they 'realize what they have done?"

I completely disagree with that. As I said, one enters hell knowingly.

By your scenario, the poster enters hell under the impression that he is choosing HAPPINESS, then realizes “he chose poorly” (if you get the reference here, 2 points) and. . . then what? By realizing ‘what he has done’, are you saying he REGRETS the choice? Again, no one ‘regrets’ the choice of choosing hell. . .

Yes, there will be despair. . .but not at ‘not getting into heaven.’ It will be the despair of knowing that they have chosen their own will and will have to live with their own will–and nothing else–for eternity. It will not be regret–if they were offered a chance to ‘leave’ and to submit to God they would refuse. . .over and over. For eternity.

 

[warriorofpeace]

consider no regret in hell with the devil controling and soaking your energy into you becoming a unprpose type vesel with no words or thought being in total isolation into slavery within deaper and deaper within your self you can continue to go on from here and by the way dont regret the choice

 

[teachccd]

How do all you guys know so much about hell when even Jesus spoke in parables because the finite human mind could never comprehend its severity?? As no human can fully grasp the intense ecstacy of heaven, no one can fully grasp the severe isolation of hell. We can toss around ideas about burning rooms and immoral parties but when all is said and done only our infinite God can know the implications of our eternity…merely because heaven is with Him and the other is without Him. Until we fully know God as much as He knows us we cannot speculate on the detailed conditions of our eternal life or death…teachccd

 

[AndyF]

Neil_Anthony:

And in that place look for other entities that can sin besides angels and men. Here you will find a truth that will bring justice to you but no one will dare to admit it. Collectives that offend God in collective form DO NOT receive the same collective judgment that you will receive. Indeed if you are in hell for murdering a person without receiving absolution, you will be comforted to know nations are allowed to do the same and never will receive the same collectively. Some may surmise that the difference is convenience. Man is packaged in a singular unit making him ideal for this place. Indeed, niches are carved in these places that can only suit the singular offender. So the furnace is fueled by individuals to supply warmth for the unjust masses.

On another point, not to forget the first decision to choose hell comes at the first microsecond of existence prior to understanding and absorbing the full impact of existence.

Here a lack of intent to offend by his decision to return to nothingness is brushed aside by the creator taking his decision as a negative and lack of co-operation, thereby justifying that the creator send him to hell for the offense. In an ideal universe with plural Gods, universes and their subjects, perhaps the consensus would conclude this treatment would be unusual, who knows.

The above is the essence of man’s worth laid out in the first instant, and the countless same questions that are repeated throughout the ages without adequate answers speaks of the torment and horror of his predicament and an attempt to seek comfort where none will be found, and brings on him a longing to return to his unaffected and non-intrusive state.

His lesson learned by this jolt into existence is that those remaining are really viewed as aware objects, not aware beings, and the word of God, that it is better not to have not been born become frighteningly true indeed, and this time in this first case and instant not culpable by anything that he justifiably brings on himself.

AndyF

 

[Neil_Anthony]

Yes, there will be despair. . .but not at ‘not getting into heaven.’ It will be the despair of knowing that they have chosen their own will and will have to live with their own will–and nothing else–for eternity. It will not be regret–if they were offered a chance to ‘leave’ and to submit to God they would refuse. . .over and over. For eternity.

Hi,
Thanks for the answers. I’m having difficulty with the statement that the souls in hell would not leave if they could. Is this Church teaching?

 

[Neil_Anthony]

Now if one is turning away from God, he is likely turning towards self. The torture of Hell may not be fire and getting poked in the tush by a pitchfork, but rather the totality of self-absorption.

Does this relate to being self-absorbed in this life? I tend to spend a lot of time reflecting on myself and my situation and where I stand with God. Does that mean I’m already on my way to hell?

 

[CentralFLJames]

Do you mean the debauchery leads to a false temporary happiness IN HELL, then they 'realize what they have done?"

I completely disagree with that. As I said, one enters hell knowingly.

By your scenario, the poster enters hell under the impression that he is choosing HAPPINESS, then realizes “he chose poorly” (if you get the reference here, 2 points) and. . . then what? By realizing ‘what he has done’, are you saying he REGRETS the choice? Again, no one ‘regrets’ the choice of choosing hell. . .

Yes, there will be despair. . .but not at ‘not getting into heaven.’ It will be the despair of knowing that they have chosen their own will and will have to live with their own will–and nothing else–for eternity. It will not be regret–if they were offered a chance to ‘leave’ and to submit to God they would refuse. . .over and over. For eternity.

This is correct. Lucifer knew before he fell that he would face eternal separation from God and suffer the most deep of punishments. Yet he chose to become Satan rather than serve God since his pride was more important to him. If God were to open the gates of Hell and give all therin a choice to repent and come to heaven or to torment earth - all in hell would gladly elect to torment and possess humans on earth. They would do this out of contempt for God rather than suffer their pride to stand in the shadow of God’s presence for an eternity.

James

 

[CentralFLJames]

How do all you guys know so much about hell when even Jesus spoke in parables because the finite human mind could never comprehend its severity?? As no human can fully grasp the intense ecstacy of heaven, no one can fully grasp the severe isolation of hell. We can toss around ideas about burning rooms and immoral parties but when all is said and done only our infinite God can know the implications of our eternity…merely because heaven is with Him and the other is without Him. Until we fully know God as much as He knows us we cannot speculate on the detailed conditions of our eternal life or death…teachccd

Read some of the saints who have had visions of hell or have been taken there to give us accounts and actual statements from demons and condemned souls therein.

James

 

[teachccd]

Read some of the saints who have had visions of hell or have been taken there to give us accounts and actual statements from demons and condemned souls therein.

James

That is private revelation and the Church does not require us to accept such revelation. We can, if we so choose, but if the Church does not teach this then my question remains…teachccd

 

[teachccd]

actual statements from demons and condemned souls therein.

James

 

[Greg27]

I think hell makes sense in two ways; as a consequence of personal choice, or as an outcome of necessary divine justice. Theologians I have noticed, tend to come down on either of these two sides, though there are elements of both.

In classical theism, the emphasis is more on divine justice rather than personal choice. Hell occurs because original sin deprived mankind of original justice and holiness, and as a result unbaptised people either go to limbo (if unborn) or to hell (if responsible adults in grave sin). Augustine and Anselm approached the issue from the divine justice side, and saw no problem in reconciling God’s justice with the existence of a state of eternal separation from God for those beings who freely chose to reject God, or who die in a state of guilt.

In more modern times, with its more existential and personal focus, the emphasis is more on human freedom and choice. I think this is why theologians tend to focus more on the moral wrongness of certain specific actions which may merit damnation, rather than speculating about God’s justice.

I think whatever position you take, the classical perspective which balanced personal action and responsibility and divine justice was probably the most coherent one, in explaining why hell exists.

 

[Archus]

To choose Hell is to accept the belief that you are nothing. Such a belief is false, because as a human, you are everything.

Choosing Hell means you choose yourself as master, and not God. It is turning away from all that is eternal and true to that which is false and short lived. With lies, sin and death, you accept that you are nothing, because that is what Hell does to you. It is what you do to yourself, after all, you are master now.

We must not give in to such a horrid notion. We are Man. God’s belovèd. Go to Him. Choose life, not death! If we accept ourselves as master, without God, then we are alone; we are nothing.