Choosing Your Friends Wisely - A Question

[latinmasslover]

If you were to stop speaking to a person just because of their sins, then you’d have no one to talk to. We’re Catholic, not JWs. We don’t shun people because of their actions. Jesus “hung around” with sinners, even prostitutes and murderers. Did they have a change of heart? Yes they did. Maybe your friendship in one way or another will influence your friend, maybe not. The thing here is to think “What would Jesus do in this situation?”, and there you have the answer.

Check out the Gospel of St. Matthew chapter 18: 15-18. Pretty obvious what Jesus would have us do.

 

[DJgang]

Tough question. If the person is Christian, the friendship shouldn’t continue actively. By that I mean that if this friend ever needs help, provide it as Christian charity dictates, but don’t “encourage” it, do you know what I mean. I know I’m going to get dogged for that poor expression, so if I’m misunderstood I’ll explain later when I’m more awake.

If this person isn’t Christian than it’s a little different, as his conscience very likely isn’t properly formed. Either way, consult a holy and orthodox priest for guidance.

I understand exactly what you are saying and it’s very, very hard to put into words…in this case actions do speak louder.

I wouldn’t dog you…I have gay friends and have met people in the corporate world that are gay…and that’s exactly how I do it.

Likewise, I have a friend who looks for men on the internet, spends weekends with them…the same applies to her.

 

[yessisan]

Check out the Gospel of St. Matthew chapter 18: 15-18. Pretty obvious what Jesus would have us do.

Now you’re just acting like a JW. That’s the quote they use to shun people. I’m sorry but the Church doesn’t tell you not to speak to homosexuals. I gave perfect examples of what Christ did, and that’s what the op should have in mind. As long as you don’t encourage their immoral behavior you’re not sinning.

 

[latinmasslover]

Now you’re just acting like a JW. That’s the quote they use to shun people. I’m sorry but the Church doesn’t tell you not to speak to homosexuals. I gave perfect examples of what Christ did, and that’s what the op should have in mind. As long as you don’t encourage their immoral behavior you’re not sinning.

Jesus never said to shun people *who didn’t know any better *or who weren’t given a chance to convert. You are now picking and choosing which of of His words you will follow. Those who know better and **refuse **to give up their bad behavior are to be, simply put, cast out. I don’t mean people who are trying to overcome a sin, but those who *refuse *to acknowledge that it is a sin or *refuse *to stop that behavior. Jesus Christ says to do this, as does St. Paul, and even the dear Apostle of Love, St. John. It’s all there in the Holy Scriptures, in is the practice of the Church, all based on the words of Jesus Christ. If you believe Jesus is wrong and the modern mentality of the world (which isn’t morally reliable) to be correct, just say so, but I think the OP was looking for a Christian handling of the situation, and in Christianity, Jesus is not wrong. Jesus says to give a warning, in Christian charity. Then warn the sinner again with a witness, then refer to the Church, and if he refuses to obey even then, treat him as the tax collector.

 

[crohnie4life]

I was in a similar situation myself w/an ex-best friend who’s Catholic. She knew better but refused to do what was morally right because as she put it " I’ve been praying for the kind of man God wants me to be with and He wants me to be happy so it is ok for me to date “Doug” while I’m waiting for my annullment". She said this 3 months after leaving her husband due to him not paying any bills & causing severe financial problems for their 2 boys age 13 & 18.

We’ve been best friends since college & were always there for each other …I use babysit for free, drop what I was doing to be there for her even when her niece had major surgery & she had problems with her family. But after she separated from her husband, she was a different person. She informed me that the priest had no problem w/her divorce & dating “Doug”. She could still be a eucharist minister & Sunday school teacher. I tried to tell her about the church’s teachings but she was like “my priest said he had no problem so I don’t care”. I still stood by her side seeing as she was going rough spots but then she stopped seeing/calling me.

She only contacted me when she wanted a favor. DH had a watch business at the time. Once in a while she’d ask if a minor repair could be made…no problem but it got to the point where she’d show up unannounced wanting a watch or jewelry fixed. I had to tell her that my DH couldn’t fix them anymore for free because we needed to concentrate on paying customers (she started abusing his time/labor so I had to tell her that which didn’t make her happy). Then I wouldn’t hear from her again until yet another favor.

Two yrs. ago I was recovering from a stroke and she emailed me asking if I could design invitations for her grandma’s birthday and she needed them w/in 3 days. I told her I was recovering from a severe stroke that left me very weak on my right side & that I couldn’t do it due to MD appts. & therapy. She got very mad at me & said “the friend I knew would’ve loved to help her friends in need.” I suggested that she get her sons, family, and boyfriend involved seeing as it was a family function.

Then nothing for a few weeks from her unless it was to complain about her ex husband but I put a stop to it stating that personal problems are best dealt w/privately. Then she started bragging about how great “Doug” was which made me feel uncomfortable. I was then accused of being judgemental when I tried to explain that while she may have grounds for an annullment, she shouldn’t be involved in another relationship until her marriage is deemed null & void by the tribunal. It’s cause for scandal & what kind of example was she setting for her sons. She told me that her boys really like “Doug” & they don’t see anything wrong with their relationship. He spoils them & he treats her like a queen. So I dropped the subject & continued praying for her.

What really hurt me the most was when my FIL passed away, she knew about it but never called or stopped by. When I really needed a friend, she wasn’t there for me.

Months later, she told me that she would rather be w/her boyfriend instead of family & friends. Another close friend of mine made me realize that Chris was dragging me down emotionally & spiritually & turning out to use others for her own gain. It was affecting my well being so after many days of prayer, I ended our friendship by telling her that it was obvious that she wanted to end our 18 yr. friendnship via her actions/words so I wished her well & told her that she’d still be in my prayers.

I wondered at times if I did the right thing but she just simply refused to abide by the Church’s teachings & put her happiness first & God in 2nd along w/her family & friends.

 

[latinmasslover]

I was in a similar situation myself w/an ex-best friend who’s Catholic. She knew better but refused to do what was morally right because as she put it " I’ve been praying for the kind of man God wants me to be with and He wants me to be happy so it is ok for me to date “Doug” while I’m waiting for my annullment". She said this 3 months after leaving her husband due to him not paying any bills & causing severe financial problems for their 2 boys age 13 & 18.

We’ve been best friends since college & were always there for each other …I use babysit for free, drop what I was doing to be there for her even when her niece had major surgery & she had problems with her family. But after she separated from her husband, she was a different person. She informed me that the priest had no problem w/her divorce & dating “Doug”. She could still be a eucharist minister & Sunday school teacher. I tried to tell her about the church’s teachings but she was like “my priest said he had no problem so I don’t care”. I still stood by her side seeing as she was going rough spots but then she stopped seeing/calling me.

She only contacted me when she wanted a favor. DH had a watch business at the time. Once in a while she’d ask if a minor repair could be made…no problem but it got to the point where she’d show up unannounced wanting a watch or jewelry fixed. I had to tell her that my DH couldn’t fix them anymore for free because we needed to concentrate on paying customers (she started abusing his time/labor so I had to tell her that which didn’t make her happy). Then I wouldn’t hear from her again until yet another favor.

Two yrs. ago I was recovering from a stroke and she emailed me asking if I could design invitations for her grandma’s birthday and she needed them w/in 3 days. I told her I was recovering from a severe stroke that left me very weak on my right side & that I couldn’t do it due to MD appts. & therapy. She got very mad at me & said “the friend I knew would’ve loved to help her friends in need.” I suggested that she get her sons, family, and boyfriend involved seeing as it was a family function.

Then nothing for a few weeks from her unless it was to complain about her ex husband but I put a stop to it stating that personal problems are best dealt w/privately. Then she started bragging about how great “Doug” was which made me feel uncomfortable. I was then accused of being judgemental when I tried to explain that while she may have grounds for an annullment, she shouldn’t be involved in another relationship until her marriage is deemed null & void by the tribunal. It’s cause for scandal & what kind of example was she setting for her sons. She told me that her boys really like “Doug” & they don’t see anything wrong with their relationship. He spoils them & he treats her like a queen. So I dropped the subject & continued praying for her.

What really hurt me the most was when my FIL passed away, she knew about it but never called or stopped by. When I really needed a friend, she wasn’t there for me.

Months later, she told me that she would rather be w/her boyfriend instead of family & friends. Another close friend of mine made me realize that Chris was dragging me down emotionally & spiritually & turning out to use others for her own gain. It was affecting my well being so after many days of prayer, I ended our friendship by telling her that it was obvious that she wanted to end our 18 yr. friendnship via her actions/words so I wished her well & told her that she’d still be in my prayers.

I wondered at times if I did the right thing but she just simply refused to abide by the Church’s teachings & put her happiness first & God in 2nd along w/her family & friends.

I can only imagine how hard that must have been, but you did the right thing. When somebody gets to that point there’s nothing we can really do but pray. God Bless.

 

[crohnie4life]

thanks for the support latin. yes, it was hard and you know the worst part of it was when she told me that even if her annullment didn’t go through, she’d still get married either outside of the church
or join another parish and actually LIE about it stating that it was the first marriage for the both of them. That is one thing that really made me realize how messed up her priorities really were.

I know that we are not perfect but one thing I will never ever tolerate is lying to anyone even the Church just to get what we want. sigh… anyway, I am better off now & I still pray that maybe one day she’ll see the light before it’s too late.

 

[goofyjim]

I’m certainly not one to preach because for the most part I wouldn’t hang out with gays or liberals or anyone else really involved in an immoral lifestyle. There are good people to hang out with.

In my second year of college I met a girl who was really messed up. I didn’t like her. She was kinda skanky, involved in immoral activity, depressed because of it, didn’t really have a clear grasp on morality, whatever. I still hung out with her though, she seemed like a good kid despite, she just didn’t really know, didn’t have a strong support system, a strong upbringing, whatever. She has since done a complete 180, got baptized last Easter, and we are engaged to be married in July. She’s a wonderful person, and God really blessed us by bringing us together. We look forward to having as many kids as God wants to give us and hopefully homeschooling them as well. You never know.

(I know this doesn’t apply to you, but I’m just sayin.)

So you’re saying if someone is gay or liberal they are evil people? I thought people are good and the actions are evil.

 

[latinmasslover]

So you’re saying if someone is gay or liberal they are evil people? I thought people are good and the actions are evil.

The actions usually determine the person. The situation varies with the person. For a Catholic to practice homosexual behavior encourage abortions, use contraceptives, etc. then that person is to be shunned after the “three warnings,” as Jesus says. St. Paul speaks similarly, that a member of the Church is to be warned, an warned again, but if they persist in sinful behavior in full knowledge then they are to be cut off from the “people of God.” This is the teaching of Jesus Christ, the Church, and the Bible. For somebody outside the Church the situation is a little different, but essentially the same…maybe extra warnings. By warnings, I mean explanations to be present with the “do nots.”

 

[latinmasslover]

I’m certainly not one to preach because for the most part I wouldn’t hang out with gays or liberals or anyone else really involved in an immoral lifestyle. There are good people to hang out with.

In my second year of college I met a girl who was really messed up. I didn’t like her. She was kinda skanky, involved in immoral activity, depressed because of it, didn’t really have a clear grasp on morality, whatever. I still hung out with her though, she seemed like a good kid despite, she just didn’t really know, didn’t have a strong support system, a strong upbringing, whatever. She has since done a complete 180, got baptized last Easter, and we are engaged to be married in July. She’s a wonderful person, and God really blessed us by bringing us together. We look forward to having as many kids as God wants to give us and hopefully homeschooling them as well. You never know.

(I know this doesn’t apply to you, but I’m just sayin.)

Deo Gratias! for her conversion, and congrats on the engagement!

 

[Sr_Sally]

I agree with this to a certain point. The person who is befriending and trying to help those with immoral lifestyles needs to be a strong Catholic with a well-formed conscience and a good parish to support them. Those who are just returning to the faith, who are struggling with their own temptations, who do not have a stable prayer life, should look to their own house first. The image I use with youth is that you are standing on a chair. Would it be easier for you to pull someone up or for them to pull you down? Once you are in a secure postition–say a platform with railing–it will be much easier for you to pull your friends up with you.

Let’s think it through by reversing the situation.

Suppose you were the one with an immoral lifestyle. Suppose all the good Catholics concluded that it was bad to be your friend and refused to associate with you.

You would have no one to suggest that you take another look at how you are living, no one to give you helpful things to read, no one to take you to Confession when you were ready to make things right.

God could certainly act in your life more directly, or could arrange for you to “accidentally” come across the information you needed to turn from your sin, but don’t you think He would want you to have good friends giving you good example and helping you along to return to His grace?

Did Jesus shun sinners?

Betsy

 

[Kathrin]

I like very much what Betsy said.

I was going to mention that too: Jesus was the One who ate with sinners!

And how can we deem ANYbody a hopeless case? And if there is hope for everybody, who can be their guidelamp if it is not US??

I even think it is important that we are friends with sinners.

(By the way, aren’t we all sinners…)

Kathrin

 

[jmcrae]

Hi everyone. Lets say that you know a person who is involved in a gravely immoral lifestyle such as homosexuality, is it okay to be friends with such a person or not?

I have lots of homosexual friends. They know where I stand on the issue, and we don’t discuss anyone’s sex life in our conversations - not mine, and not theirs.

 

[Em_in_FL]

I think the friends you choose has more to do with YOU than with them…

If you are strong in your faith and a good evangelist… then in many ways you may be CALLED to befriend sinners and bring them to faith!

But, if you’re not so strong in your faith, and require the support of strong Catholics in your life, then you should probably avoid situations that may either bring you to sin or place you in situations where you may condone sinful actions…

Depends on the person…

 

[goofyjim]

The actions usually determine the person. The situation varies with the person. For a Catholic to practice homosexual behavior encourage abortions, use contraceptives, etc. then that person is to be shunned after the “three warnings,” as Jesus says. St. Paul speaks similarly, that a member of the Church is to be warned, an warned again, but if they persist in sinful behavior in full knowledge then they are to be cut off from the “people of God.” This is the teaching of Jesus Christ, the Church, and the Bible. For somebody outside the Church the situation is a little different, but essentially the same…maybe extra warnings. By warnings, I mean explanations to be present with the “do nots.”

Well I’m sorry but I will not shun anyone. I will continue to hang out with anyone I choose. There is no sinful behavior in just having friends of any persuasion.

 

[ASimpleSinner]

Well I’m sorry but I will not shun anyone. I will continue to hang out with anyone I choose. There is no sinful behavior in just having friends of any persuasion.

Are you at all familiar with the Catholic thinking of the duty to not put oneself in the near occasions of sin?

 

[goofyjim]

Are you at all familiar with the Catholic thinking of the duty to not put oneself in the near occasions of sin?

Not a near occasion of sin for me, thank you. And if I were to cease hanging out with sinners, well, I would have to stop going to Church on Sundays as well.

 

[latinmasslover]

Not a near occasion of sin for me, thank you. And if I were to cease hanging out with sinners, well, I would have to stop going to Church on Sundays as well.

When we say to shun somebody because of their sin, we are referring to those who persist in their sin and are not trying to overcome it. We’re all sinners, and as Christians we are called to overcome our passions, especially the mortally sinful ones, and to strive for perfection. The situation is different for those who grew up not being aware of how offensive this sin is to God. For those who know better, Jesus Christ says (after warning them multiple times) essentially, to cast them out. St. Paul says the same, as these people (among others) will not enter into the kingdom of Heaven (inspired words of St. Paul). We’re to show them why it’s wrong and shouldn’t be practiced, but if they refuse to acknowledge the truth, treat them as the “heathen and publican.” You can’t disagree with God and be right, and those are the words of God. We don’t flat out condemn the person, but detach with Christian charity, letting them know that the door is always open, they just have to walk through it.

 

[Sheeniac]

Hi everyone. Lets say that you know a person who is involved in a gravely immoral lifestyle such as homosexuality, is it okay to be friends with such a person or not?

I think so. And pray for this person a lot. I was an atheist for 25 years, and my Catholic friends never preached, but loved me nonetheless. I think God saw that they weren’t going to stop praying and showered me with His Grace

 

[ASimpleSinner]

Not a near occasion of sin for me, thank you. And if I were to cease hanging out with sinners, well, I would have to stop going to Church on Sundays as well.

All I asked was if you were at all familiar with the Catholic concept of the near occasion of sin.