Chose to use artificial insemination - now what?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Mom2Girls
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Mom2girls…check your inbox.

I think you’ve gotten some really great advice here. I know you are in a tough spot here in regards to the Church teaching. I think maybe getting some direct advice from the church as to why Artificial Insemination is wrong, is a start. Your were blessed through this process by God as you know pregnancy is not guaranteed through this method, so God truly did bless you, but that is not to say God blessed the way you did it.

Just think about that and also my inbox, and I hope in some small way I was able to help.

Maybe once you understand why Artificial Insemination is wrong, you can as for forgiveness without feeling regret for having your children through this method.

I’m praying for you.
 
GailMac said:
Kevin42 states: "Quote:
Originally Posted by GailMac
So, in your desperation for a child you’ve consented to partake of an endless array of mortal sins. Are you still Christian? I don’t think so. Maybe you do.

Peace,

Gail

Are you suggesting that someone who is baptized can actually sin enough, or commit a big enough sin that they can stop being Christian ? While a person may not be in a state of grace, I wasn’t aware that they ceased to be Christian."

Yeppers, I am. The beginning of justification of that type of sin cycle would include apostasy. I found in the dictionary an alternative god for those who would like to justify their excesses. It’s name is Anubis and information about it can be found in Egyptology. Here’s some help with justifying that many sins consented to to let a good end justify any means taken to have a baby: "Anubis - God of Embalming
head of jackal

Anubis invented embalming to embalm Osiris, the first mummy. He was the guide of the dead. The Egyptians embalmed their dead, especially their pharaohs, to preserve them, since they thought…" Here’s the link: gwydir.demon.co.uk/jo/egypt/anubis.htm

But I really wouldn’t recomend using this route to justify that type of sin cycle. The end result is Hell. Good luck and God bless.

Peace,

Gail
Click to expand...
While I would agree that a baptized person can indeed turn their back so thoroughly on God that they can endanger their salvation or even renounce Christianity altogether, I think it requires much more than what Mom has done here. She obviously has not chosen this out of her desire to turn her back on God or the Church. She chose it because she wanted to raise children. Intent makes a BIG difference.

To become a non Christian would be to directly renounce God and/or Christian faith, either because you no longer believe or out of anger. I once did exactly that, so I am quite familiar with that path. Yes, serious sin can lead to it, but at some point it actually becomes a conscious and intentional rejection of God. If Mom had done such, she would not be here asking if it is possible for her to be reconciled to the Church without rejecting her children; she would not want to be reconciled. And, the very fact that I am now Catholic myself, or for that matter would choose to even be within 100 feet of a church of any kind, is proof that Our Lord has plenty of love and mercy for all of us.

NO sin is too great for His mercy if we but repent and ask for it.
 
I am sorry if my post was too hars, I do apologize. I am not perfect and sometimes too blunt. My only point to it is this: sometimes even though are action may be one thing, our money goes to support other things that we may not agree with, not that you yourself had committed these things or ever would.

Another way to look at this is the old anullment question: How can I get an anullment if I have children - won’t this make my children bastards? The answer to that is no. The marriage is not undone - one has to live with that - it is only the sacrament that is found to be invalid. Therefore the children are not bastards as they were birthed in marriage. So how does this apply?

The act of reconcilliation does not mean the sin never happenned and that your children are no longer gifts from God, it just means that the sin you incurred is washed clean so that you can better bring those gifts from God up in the Church. Hopefully that is more lovingly put.

Also, as a parent you must realize that your two children will not always like ALL of your rules - especially when they get to be teenagers. :eek: They will need to follow them anyway and find forgiveness in that unconditional love that you give them as a mother. They can’t just go move down the street. Well, just like us we are “spiritual teenagers” who sometimes don’t like all the rules our Father and his bride, The Church, give us. It is much more consoling and comforting to find forgiveness in that unconditional love that a parent has for a child than to go live down the street IMO.

God bless and good luck,
 
You might also want to look into the actual procedures. The semen is not inserted into the uterus. There are also many different aspects to the procedure which makes it legitimate or not such as how the semen is collected. Look to the first link for acceptable means.
Click to expand...
Actually techinically what we used was IUI (for years referred in general terms as AI) - where it is inserted into the uterus, here nor there really. You are correct that we do not fall into the ‘approved or disapproved’ section of the document you provided, I know this and knew so when I initially posted.
I believe this will be of some help. This may shed a “new light” on things.
Click to expand...
The gospel shows that physical sterility is not an absolute evil. Spouses who still suffer from infertility after exhausting legitimate medical procedures should unite themselves with the Lord’s cross, the source of all spiritual fecundity. They can give expression to their generosity by adopting abandoned children or performing demanding services for others (CCC 2379).
Click to expand...
Now of course I can be wrong, as I can’t speak for the Church, but it just seems to me that the procudure that you had done would be within the legitimate medical procedure you had done. Now don’t get me wrong, but my thoughts are since the medical procedure you had done was to place your husbands seed in your utures to create life, seems to me this would fall under a legitimate medical procedure. After all he did not spill his seed on the ground or to prevent pregnancy, his seed was just helped to get there to create life.
Click to expand...
I’m sure without a doubt “others” may tell me my answer is wrong, but I truely don’t think it is.
Click to expand...
Thanks Adelore, for your perseverance. You have been giving me a daily smile with your posts and PM’s - Thank you.
 
If the IUI is not covered in the official list of illegitimate means speak to your priest. If you haven’t done anything wrong than you have nothing to be sorry for. However if you feel any internal guilt or questioning then pray to God to remove that and he will. If you do that under the bounds of confession than it is sacramental and he definitely will. Is it internal guilt that you feel or is it the judgement of others that has made you feel as if you do not belong? If it is the judgement of others than maybe you can do something good with it: talk to your priest and start a support group for infertile couples to get educated on procedures that are legitimate and illegitimate and talk about their experiences with others that understand how much pain is involved in the process. I don’t mean the physical. Infertility can cause much stress on the marriage and having other souples in the same boat to help may bring everyone closer to each other. Also it may bring more peace to you.

God bless and I apologize again for my first post,
 
Adelore,

My apologies. I meant to say that the semen is not inserted into the uterus in all procedures. Guess I need a review of my biology. I got GIFT confused in the mix.

Dianne
 
The end does not justify the means.

The end results might be a good, the means may be a sin.

The OP and her husband deliberately chose to sin. Let them rejoice in their child. But they still need to repent because of their sin.

This is why we have so many “protest-ant” denominations today – they want to reject beliefs which may make their lives inconvenient or difficult. They want their faith to “fit in” to their desires rather conform their will to God’s.
 
If the IUI is not covered in the official list of illegitimate means speak to your priest. If you haven’t done anything wrong than you have nothing to be sorry for. However if you feel any internal guilt or questioning then pray to God to remove that and he will. If you do that under the bounds of confession than it is sacramental and he definitely will. Is it internal guilt that you feel or is it the judgement of others that has made you feel as if you do not belong? If it is the judgement of others than maybe you can do something good with it: talk to your priest and start a support group for infertile couples to get educated on procedures that are legitimate and illegitimate and talk about their experiences with others that understand how much pain is involved in the process. I don’t mean the physical. Infertility can cause much stress on the marriage and having other souples in the same boat to help may bring everyone closer to each other. Also it may bring more peace to you.
Click to expand...
God bless and I apologize again for my first post,
Click to expand...
Sorry if I confused with my words. The method we used is not accepted. To be politically correct and clear, it involved masturbation, washing of the sperm and the sperm was injected into my uterus by a 3rd party. We tried the means listed on the ‘acceptable’ list first for the first 6 months of treatment and they did not work. We will meet with a priest after Thanksgiving for his thoughts on the current situation and go from there.

Also there is no need to apologize for your first post, I did not feel it was harsh as you mentioned earlier. 🙂
 
I was taught many years ago in a Catholic Morality course that it was a legitimate option in some cases of difficult conception for a couple to have intercourse in a doctor’s office following which the physician would use a syringe to collect excess semen and insert it directly into the uterus. I can’t recall if using a condom with a hole in it was another way of collecting a semen sample for this purpose. I think it may have been considered OK. Of course all this was long before Paul VI, John Paul II, or Christopher West.
 
Hello there.
Code: 
 I just want to ask, did you even look into adoption?  It looks to me that adoption would cost about the same as artificial insemination.  I agree with most posters here that yes, the method of conception was wrong but the kids are not.  Kids are God's gift to the world.  I will commend you for at least using your husband's sperm.  I read on here somewhere that fertility clinics are bad because you've got all these sperm and eggs flying around that are donated to random people.  On the surface, that may not look so bad.  But, when these kids grow up, there is a chance that they will meet their biological half-sibling and not know it and date or whatever.  (uh, EEEWWWW.)  After I read that, I was like, never will I consider artificial insemination.  (I don't need it, but if I did, I would try to adopt.)  With adoption, you know who the parents are most of the time and you run into that problem A LOT less, I'm sure.  I'm not trying to  make you feel too guilty.  Just go to confession for your conception method and you'll be fine.  There was a time when I had to go to confession A LOT and it ain't no thing.  I mean, it is - confession is a great thing.  But don't think or stress too much over it and just go.  Jesus misses you!  :D
Tracy
 
Mom2Girls said:
Sorry if I confused with my words. The method we used is not accepted. To be politically correct and clear, it involved masturbation, washing of the sperm and the sperm was injected into my uterus by a 3rd party. We tried the means listed on the ‘acceptable’ list first for the first 6 months of treatment and they did not work. We will meet with a priest after Thanksgiving for his thoughts on the current situation and go from there.

Also there is no need to apologize for your first post, I did not feel it was harsh as you mentioned earlier. 🙂
Click to expand...
Thanks for your clarifying. Did you know that you could get the sperm in a different and licit way? If you had known would you have done things differently?

I’m glad you are going to speak to the priest.
 
I just want to ask, did you even look into adoption?
Click to expand...
Adoption is not an option for us. There are many reasons couples are not able to adopt.
I read on here somewhere that fertility clinics are bad because you’ve got all these sperm and eggs flying around that are donated to random people. On the surface, that may not look so bad. But, when these kids grow up, there is a chance that they will meet their biological half-sibling and not know it and date or whatever. (uh, EEEWWWW.) After I read that, I was like, never will I consider artificial insemination. (I don’t need it, but if I did, I would try to adopt.)
Click to expand...
I am not sure if this was directed at my situation but just to be clear my eggs remained in my body and were not donated and neither was my husbands sperm. I am certain there is no risk of them marrying siblings in the future. I also believe that it’s a bit of a stretch as this can happen with adoption in todays society as well which I think would also be a stretch.
There was a time when I had to go to confession A LOT and it ain’t no thing. I mean, it is - confession is a great thing. But don’t think or stress too much over it and just go.
Click to expand...
Here in lies the problem, how does one confess something one is not sorry for or does one not go with the other. People keep telling me to confess. I can confess it, yes I did it but do not regret it, and can not say I wouldn’t do it if I had to make the choice again. Maybe I am thinking to much just seems wrong to do it, confess it, be forgiven and then the cycle repeats? I am trying to honest about where I am at with this.
 
Thanks for your clarifying. Did you know that you could get the sperm in a different and licit way? If you had known would you have done things differently?
Click to expand...
I’m glad you are going to speak to the priest.
Click to expand...
No I did not know that it could be collected as I have seen described in this post. I was under the impression it has to be collected in a sterile environment.

However as discussed in a previous post about removing the sperm and reinjecting it, this would not have been optional. Sperm was part of the infertility issues and needed to be washed prior to injection.
 
Hi Mom2Girls. Welcome to the forums. You have been getting some good advice here, but yes I can see where you might be at an impasse. You are correct. If you would make the same choice again given the circumstances then it doesn’t make sense to confess just to repeat the cycle. (Even hypothetically speaking.) Are you open to hearing why immoral medicine is just plain *bad *medicine though?

I was at a very similar place at one point in my life. It was amazingly painful. I was not in union with the Church on pretty much any teachings involving sexuality, (contraception, gay marriage, oral sex, et al.) My journey began in the secular world even though I was a Catholic. It was the realization that the “medicine” I was being offered didn’t fix the root problem that started me seeing the light.

I discovered that I was often told incorrect information. Basically I was misled at best, and at worst outright lied to. I was given the very same option you took, and I was given it right out of the gate. It took awhile to see why… Why indeed?

Just in this thread you were given the information that there is a moral way to collect sperm. But you were not given that information in the secular world. There are many, many ways to have helped your husband’s aspermaglutination, all moral. But the problem is that morality doesn’t get the funding. The Catholic infertility clinics actually have a higher success rate of actual conceptions and live births! Moral medicine is just *good *medicine. That is the True point of Catholic teaching. God’s way IS the best way!

Basically, I feel bad that you paid that third party. You paid good money for something that God has already given us the moral means to do. Please understand that I did read that you “tried the other methods.” I saw that, I promise. But my point is that since you weren’t given the moral answers about infertility, then you weren’t given the whole truth about those other methods.

There was a study of two groups of men, all with aspermaglutination. One group had the sperm harvested unnaturally, washed and inseminated. The other group took high doses of Vitamin C and continued natural relations with their wives. The results? The Vitamin C group had a higher number of pregnancies in the same period of time! And the Vitamin C group felt healthier overall. I always think about that like one of those MasterCard commercials. “IUI: $5000. Bottle of high quality Vitamin C: $50. Having a baby God’s way: Priceless.”

Now I don’t know if you tried the Vitamin C route and am not trying to offer medical advice. What I am trying to ask and help you see is this: What if the secular world did not have your best interest at heart? What if their greed took advantage of your desperation? Is it possible that what they had you do really was objectively immoral? Does that change how you feel about the IUI?

May God bless you and your family in this journey.
 
Tracyms1974 said:
I just want to ask, did you even look into adoption? It looks to me that adoption would cost about the same as artificial insemination.
Click to expand...
Not even close.

When me and my wife did artificial insemination it was $275 a shot (though there were a few appointments before that, but those were the same cost as a regular doctors visit). We were told that most couples achieve success within six attempts.

From what I hear about spending as much as $10,000 or more on an adoption, it’s far cheaper. Though it doesn’t make it moral.
 
I just want to ask, did you even look into adoption? It looks to me that adoption would cost about the same as artificial insemination. I agree with most posters here that yes, the method of conception was wrong but the kids are not. Kids are God’s gift to the world. I will commend you for at least using your husband’s sperm. I read on here somewhere that fertility clinics are bad because you’ve got all these sperm and eggs flying around that are donated to random people. On the surface, that may not look so bad. But, when these kids grow up, there is a chance that they will meet their biological half-sibling and not know it and date or whatever. (uh, EEEWWWW.) After I read that, I was like, never will I consider artificial insemination. (I don’t need it, but if I did, I would try to adopt.) With adoption, you know who the parents are most of the time and you run into that problem A LOT less, I’m sure. I’m not trying to make you feel too guilty. Just go to confession for your conception method and you’ll be fine. There was a time when I had to go to confession A LOT and it ain’t no thing. I mean, it is - confession is a great thing. But don’t think or stress too much over it and just go. Jesus misses you!
Click to expand...
In Mom’s defense it was her husband’s sperm. The children are biologically theirs. It was just the method that was an issue.

God bless,
 
Mom2Girls said:
No I did not know that it could be collected as I have seen described in this post. I was under the impression it has to be collected in a sterile environment.

However as discussed in a previous post about removing the sperm and reinjecting it, this would not have been optional. Sperm was part of the infertility issues and needed to be washed prior to injection.
Click to expand...
Semen can be collect post coital (after sex ) or with a perforated condom. Then it can be treated and washed. This is permitted at this point for IUI.

I think you should allow yourself the point that you really did not understand church teaching on this matter or the options to you . Perhaps you didn’t even understand why should have addressed this very sensitive and painful issue according to church teaching. Many of us don’t. I think you should give yourself some credit that if you truly understood the meaning of the marital act in marriage and it’s relationship to the Eucharist and the symbol of God’s relationship to us his body then perhaps you would not have done what you did. That combined with the fact that your children are still seen as children of God gives a different light on things, doesn’t it?

Perhaps you can do some study on Theology of the Body, Marriage and the Eucharist and delve deeper into the churches understanding of sexual and reproductive matters. It might be of some comfort to you.

I’ve made some mistakes in this area as well. Not infertility but other issues. It was tough to come to the realization of this. But truly when I was done researching and studying I did realize that I never understood marriage, sexuality or the church teaching on a myriad of issues. It helped me deal with forgiving myself and understanding my place in the body of Christ.

Prayers that you might find some relief in this area.
 
LittleDeb said:
Just in this thread you were given the information that there is a moral way to collect sperm. But you were not given that information in the secular world. There are many, many ways to have helped your husband’s aspermaglutination, all moral. But the problem is that morality doesn’t get the funding. The Catholic infertility clinics actually have a higher success rate of actual conceptions and live births! Moral medicine is just *good *medicine. That is the True point of Catholic teaching. God’s way IS the best way!
.
Click to expand...
Question Littledeb…where can you find a Catholic Infertility clinic in Ontario Canada?
 
Mom2Girls said:
You have no idea who I am or what my intentions are.

Let’s not leave out your earlier comments. This is a ridiculous statement. Your intentions are to come to this thread to punish me with words, not help.
I am not sure if this thread just goes on and on but I feel I know were I am at and where I need to go. I will be setting up a meeting with the priest to talk about this and get some more feedback from him. Then I will be better equiped to make an infomed decision.
.
Click to expand...
I only thought your intentions were good. I have no intention to punish you with words, I wasn’t trying to comfort you either though. You are going through an experience that I would also dread, to not be able to adopt or have children, but yet have a loving husband. The idea would truly be a miserable thing to me. Then to know that their is a procedure to help me make a child, I know I would be very tempted.

Right now, I’m very young and unmarried, so to think of a future like that; it would be very bleak. I just have been tired of the idea that being Christian is filled with easy and happy choices. The Christian path is very hard, everyday we sin and fall short somehow. We know we shall never reach perfection, but we still continually strive for it. That’s my idea of Christianity. So for you to say you are going to leave the Church, if you can not be accepted, seemed exactly opposite of the idea of Christianity.

Jesus suffered on the Cross, was beaten and abused, lived on charity, and walked barefoot. Suffered continually when he could have lived as a King. Then there is you, still continually trying to let yourself be right, instead of just asking for forgiveness and moving on. You are so very blessed by God, but you are willing to reject that for your own pride or misunderstanding.

I’m angered by the idea of it. But I know I have the same things, I’m not perfect. No where near it. I treated you with the same respect I give myself. I treated you harshly because I want you to have eternal life.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top