Christ and Original Sin

[scameter18]

According to Catholic teaching, due to Christ’s Virgin Birth, coupled with Mary’s Immaculate Conception, Christ did not have original sin on Him in any way. By this, would Christ have been affected by some of the things that we experience due to original sin? Would He have toiled in work, been in enmity with nature (including animal attacks, diseases, plant thorns, natural chaos, etc.), or physically died?

 

[puzzleannie]

that is a good question
I am no scholar but my take is based on verses such as “the rain falls on the just and the unjust alike” and Jesus commentary on why innocent people are killed in natural disasters or get diseases and die.
Even though they personally were free from original sin and its effects, Jesus and Mary were born into a world still in thrall to sin and still disordered by sin, so that they like everyone were subject to the ills of the world both through nature and of course the actions of sinful people. So yes they would have had to work for food, suffer along with everyone else in times of storm and peril and so forth. The times Jesus exerted his power over nature were chosen not to make his life easier but as a sign for his followers to aid their faith.

 

[Salvatore123]

I think what I am about to say is theologically correct:

By becoming man, Christ had two natures: one fully divine and one fully human, and both of those natures inhabited a truly human body.

As such, Christ was SUSCEPTIBLE to everything that a human’s body might experience. But - and this part falls in the “I think” category for me - although he MAY have been subject to being bitten by an insect or catching a cold - I am leaning in the direction that he did NOT, as encountering such things would have caused a “deviation” from his purpose: the Redemption of mankind through his death.

We know he CHOSE to experience such human things as hunger (after fasting in the desert for 40 days), thirst (while on the cross), pain - both mental and physical (Agony in the Garden and the entire Passion), and finally death of his human body.

Hope this is responsive.

 

[seagal]

that is a good question
I am no scholar but my take is based on verses such as “the rain falls on the just and the unjust alike” and Jesus commentary on why innocent people are killed in natural disasters or get diseases and die.
Even though they personally were free from original sin and its effects,** Jesus and Mary were born into a world still in thrall to sin and still disordered by sin, so that they like everyone were subject to the ills of the world both through nature and of course the actions of sinful people. So yes they would have had to work for food, suffer along with everyone else in times of storm and peril and so forth.** The times Jesus exerted his power over nature were chosen not to make his life easier but as a sign for his followers to aid their faith.

How does this jive with the firmly held belief by some that because Mary was born without original sin that she didn’t suffer in childbirth? Just curious about your take on that.

 

[Hecares]

In this quote from the CC we are told that Christ is like us in all things but sin. My interpretation would be that He experienced everything the average person would, but he never sinned. He died for our sins, so it seems reasonable that He could experience the consequences of sin even though he had never sinned,

"The Monophysites affirmed that the human nature had ceased to exist as such in Christ when the divine person of God’s Son assumed it. Faced with this heresy, the fourth ecumenical council, at Chalcedon in 451, confessed:

Following the holy Fathers, we unanimously teach and confess one and the same Son, our Lord Jesus Christ: the same perfect in divinity and perfect in humanity, the same truly God and truly man, composed of rational soul and body; consubstantial with the Father as to his divinity and consubstantial with us as to his humanity; “like us in all things but sin.” He was begotten from the Father before all ages as to his divinity and in these last days, for us and for our salvation, was born as to his humanity of the virgin Mary, the Mother of God. Council of Chalcedon (451): DS301,cf. Heb4:1]"

 

[puzzleannie]

How does this jive with the firmly held belief by some that because Mary was born without original sin that she didn’t suffer in childbirth? Just curious about your take on that.

it is not dogma

 

[scameter18]

@Puzzleannie: Yes, it would seem that Christ humbled Himself in all ways to experience the full spectrum of human life. Hence Him working with St. Joseph as a carpenter, and the things that Salvatore123 said. To me, your ideas would go towards the Catholic concept of penance and indulgence. By this I mean that even though when we are forgiven, we still deserve temporal punishment. Just as even though Christ’s redemption ensured the eventual restoration of the universe, currently its’ restoration is spiritual, and humanity is tasked with aligning the world with Christ’s redemption. Even though Christ and the Blessed Virgin were both fully free from original sin in body and soul, they lived in a world with natural sin in it, thus their own purity did not automatically purify the world around them - unless through a miracle, as you noted, which was primarily for faith, not to exemplify His lack of original sin, which was proven simply by His completely sinless life, even the unintentional habits we pick up.

@Salvatore123: Those are very good points, I hadn’t thought about it from the angle of His redemptive mission, though I think it had been part of my speculation. I had the image of Christ being killed by a disease or a random boulder falling on Him, thus ending His mission due to complete randomness. However, I think it is also quite plausible that God assured His safety, but let Him remain “humbled” by experiencing the natural sin that we all experience, evidenced by the trials you noted.

@Hecares: While He was without personal sin, He also lacked original sin too, so “without sin” must include both personal and original. To more fully reply to your points, see my responses above, which deal with some similar ideas.

 

[Joe_Kelley]

According to Catholic teaching, due to Christ’s Virgin Birth, coupled with Mary’s Immaculate Conception, Christ did not have original sin on Him in any way. By this, would Christ have been affected by some of the things that we experience due to original sin? Would He have toiled in work, been in enmity with nature (including animal attacks, diseases, plant thorns, natural chaos, etc.), or physically died?

Being fully human, Jesus, like all of us, must have had a Guardian Angel. That angel worked overtime to ensure that He arrived safely at the Cross.

 

[seagal]

Being fully human, Jesus, like all of us, must have had a Guardian Angel. That angel worked overtime to ensure that He arrived safely at the Cross.

How true! There are several instances recorded in the NT where the crowd tried to get their hands on him but he “slipped away” somehow.

 

[scameter18]

That is a good point. And after His fourty day trial in the desert, angels “ministered to Him”. This also reminds me of Revelation: “After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth to prevent any wind from blowing on the land or on the sea or on any tree.” (Revelation 7:1 NIV) And: “Then I saw another angel coming up from the east, having the seal of the living God. He called out in a loud voice to the four angels who had been given power to harm the land and the sea”
(Revelation 7:2)