Christ birthday question

[Subrosa]

Happy holidays, all -

I have a question that was raised when I watched a non-denom preacher on TV the other day. He says that the day we christians celebrate Christmas (Dec. 25) is actually the day that Mary conceived, making Jesus’ actual birthday sometime in August or September.

I have always understood that the date in December was chosen in Egypt during the third century to replace a pagan holiday on that same day. It never has been associated with or claimed to be the actual day of birth of our Lord.

I also am unaware of any particular tradition saying that Dec. 25 is the conception date of our Lord.

Could anyone draw some light on this? Is this a teaching of any branch of protestantism, or is this preacher coming up with his own ideas?

Subrosa

 

[justinthemartyr]

No one really knows that actual date of any of it. What if the date of His actual birth is Dec 25th? that is the real question.

 

[buffalo]

**Good News: Jesus Christ was born on December 25, 1 BC.

**

 

[LilyM]

No one really knows that actual date of any of it. What if the date of His actual birth is Dec 25th? that is the real question.

We can make educated guesses at least that it would’ve been in the month of December. Goes back to John the Baptist. Remember his father Zachary was serving as a priest in the Temple - he went in by himself to make an offering when the angel appeared to announce John’s conception. Everyone wondered why he took so long, remember? So he was alone.

AFAIK there was only one occasion when a priest would’ve gone in alone - Jewish New Year. JNY is one of those lunar calendar things like Easter, but normally sometime in the month of September (this year it was mid-September). So doing a bit of math, we’ve got September as the month of John’s conception, June as the month of his birth and December as the month for Christ’s birth.

This is reconfirmed by Luke when he says Gabriel appeared to Mary ‘in the sixth month’. Most people think of the sixth month of Elizabeth’s pregnancy (which it certainly was) - but Luke is most likely saying it was the sixth month of the YEAR. Which ties in again if John was conceived at Jewish New Year.

 

[ClaireS]

We can make educated guesses at least that it would’ve been in the month of December. Goes back to John the Baptist. Remember his father Zachary was serving as a priest in the Temple - he went in by himself to make an offering when the angel appeared to announce John’s conception. Everyone wondered why he took so long, remember? So he was alone.

AFAIK there was only one occasion when a priest would’ve gone in alone - Jewish New Year. JNY is one of those lunar calendar things like Easter, but normally sometime in the month of September (this year it was mid-September). So doing a bit of math, we’ve got September as the month of John’s conception, June as the month of his birth and December as the month for Christ’s birth.

This is reconfirmed by Luke when he says Gabriel appeared to Mary ‘in the sixth month’. Most people think of the sixth month of Elizabeth’s pregnancy (which it certainly was) - but Luke is most likely saying it was the sixth month of the YEAR. Which ties in again if John was conceived at Jewish New Year.

Really good point. What about the shepherds being in the fields with their flocks? Shepherds usually only do that during lambing time. What time of the year is that around Bethlehem??

 

[Eileen_T]

Really good point. What about the shepherds being in the fields with their flocks? Shepherds usually only do that during lambing time. What time of the year is that around Bethlehem??

Many have speculated that since shepherds were in the field the night Christ was born, it must have been in spring or summer. Some said May 20; others fixed the date on April 19th or 20th.

There is written evidence that by 354, the Bishop of Rome was observing December 25th as the date of Christ’s birth. Four major Roman festivals were held in December, including Saturnalia which celebrated the returning Sun-god. Some thing these were adapted to the Christian celebration of the coming of the Son of God.

In establishing 25 December as the day on which Christians celebrated the birth of Christ, the Church was establishing its ecclesiastical authority.

It amuses me that when Protestants condemn the Catholic Church’s Traditions, they themselves follow this one.

 

[Kitty_Chan]

It amuses me that when Protestants condemn the Catholic Church’s Traditions, they themselves follow this one.

psst; ya know, ya have to quit mentioning it, we could catch on.

It totally amuses me and Im protestant.

So, I did want to say to the question of the post

My birthday this year fell on a Tuesday. And guess what everyone, we celebrated it on the following Saturday.
It wasnt on the actual day!!!

I was thinking the only way it would matter if it wasnt the same day is this,

You cant get a free desert.
rules are rules ya know.

 

[Subrosa]

So what I’m seeing is that this preacher (who will remain un-named) is about the only person in 2000 years to actually have figured out the truth! Well howdaya like that!

I wonder what his fellow pastors say to him at conferences? Anything at all? Is there a preacher here that would care to comment?

Subrosa

 

[bluestarsneyes]

Oh if I had a dime for all the bad theology I hear on a daily basis…I’m not preacher…but I’m a Theological Student…and yes what is on television sometimes is appauling!

However, it doesn’t match some of the insane stuff I’ve heard in actual churches.

I think that the actual timing of the Birth of Christ is…well interesting to attempt to determine…but really about as pointless as throwing a feather in the wind.

I’m quite sure that Jesus is not offending by celebrating…meaning giving Thanks to God for his birth and life and death. I’m quite sure whether we do it on Christmas instead of in the middle of July is quite well…so low on his radar of concerns.

It’s about the heart. Celebrating should be like the pagans but we should follow the example of Christ at Passover…refection…time with loved ones…thankfulness and prayer to God…and some good food!

 

[buffalo]

Really good point. What about the shepherds being in the fields with their flocks? Shepherds usually only do that during lambing time. What time of the year is that around Bethlehem??

The winter season is the wet season. The fields are green and the sheep are out to pasture. Temperatures are mild to freezing.

 

[leonie]

The winter season is the wet season. The fields are green and the sheep are out to pasture. Temperatures are mild to freezing.

Thanks for providing this information.

I imagine that with things pretty crowded in town and in outlying settlements, the shepherds would be likely to enjoy being out of town in any case. Certainly, their moms would have sent them out to make room for Uncle Saul and Aunt Anna.

 

[BibleSteve]

The Bible reveals through prophecy the time of year that Jesus was born. Where does it do this?

In the book of Daniel, chapter9, we find one of the most impressive prophecies regarding the Messiah. It describes both his coming and his being cut off in death, which provided a ransom sacrifice to atone for sin and establish a basis for obedient mankind to gain “righteousness for times indefinite.” (Daniel 9:24-27; compare Matthew 20:28.) According to this prophecy, all of this would be accomplished within a period of 70 weeks of years, beginning in the year 455B.C.E., when the command went forth to rebuild Jerusalem. (Nehemiah 2:1-11) From the time division in this prophecy, it can be discerned that the Messiah would appear at the beginning of the 70th week of years. This occurred when Jesus presented himself for baptism in 29*C.E., officially beginning his Messianic role. “At the half of the week,” or after three and a half years, the Messiah would be cut off in death, thereby bringing an end to the value of all sacrifices under the Mosaic Law covenant.—Hebrews 9:11-15; 10:1-10.

This prophecy reveals that the length of Jesus’ ministry was three and a half years. Jesus died on Passover, Nisan14 (according to the Jewish calendar), in the spring of 33C.E. The equivalent date for that year would be April1. (Matthew 26:2) Counting back three and a half years places his baptism in 29C.E. at the beginning of October. Luke informs us that Jesus was about 30 years old at his baptism. (Luke 3:21-23) This would mean that Jesus’ birth also was near the beginning of October. In harmony with Luke’s account, the shepherds would at that time of year still be “out of doors and keeping watches in the night over their flocks.”—Luke 2:8.

 

[Subrosa]

The Bible reveals through prophecy the time of year that Jesus was born. Where does it do this?

In the book of Daniel, chapter9, we find one of the most impressive prophecies regarding the Messiah. It describes both his coming and his being cut off in death, which provided a ransom sacrifice to atone for sin and establish a basis for obedient mankind to gain “righteousness for times indefinite.” (Daniel 9:24-27; compare Matthew 20:28.) According to this prophecy, all of this would be accomplished within a period of 70 weeks of years, beginning in the year 455B.C.E., when the command went forth to rebuild Jerusalem. (Nehemiah 2:1-11) From the time division in this prophecy, it can be discerned that the Messiah would appear at the beginning of the 70th week of years. This occurred when Jesus presented himself for baptism in 29*C.E., officially beginning his Messianic role. “At the half of the week,” or after three and a half years, the Messiah would be cut off in death, thereby bringing an end to the value of all sacrifices under the Mosaic Law covenant.—Hebrews 9:11-15; 10:1-10.

This prophecy reveals that the length of Jesus’ ministry was three and a half years. Jesus died on Passover, Nisan14 (according to the Jewish calendar), in the spring of 33C.E. The equivalent date for that year would be April1. (Matthew 26:2) Counting back three and a half years places his baptism in 29C.E. at the beginning of October. Luke informs us that Jesus was about 30 years old at his baptism. (Luke 3:21-23) This would mean that Jesus’ birth also was near the beginning of October. In harmony with Luke’s account, the shepherds would at that time of year still be “out of doors and keeping watches in the night over their flocks.”—Luke 2:8.

Thanks for the (name removed by moderator)ut, BibleSteve! Your description of bible prophecy does not agree with the TV preacher. Would you say that he is wrong? (Please reread the OP for reference) He seems determinedly convinced about his dates. I wonder what he would say about your prophecy? Care to speculate?

Also, your ballpark timeframe, near the beginning of October, does not agree with the traditional date of December 25. What is your view of the traditional date?

Also, for those who care to read it, here is an article with historical contexts concerning the date of Christ’s birth. What’s interesting is that no one in the article agrees either!
newadvent.org/cathen/03724b.htm

Subrosa

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

The “BC” and “AD” dating system is not biblical. It wasn’t fully implemented and accepted until several centuries after Jesus’ death. However, when it was being calculated, they actually made a mistake in p(name removed by moderator)ointing the year of Jesus’ birth. Jesus was born under the reign of Herod, who died about 4BC. So, scholars tend to agree that Jesus was born in around 4-6 BC.

Most scholars would agree that Jesus was born during the Feast of Tabernacles which is held around September.

It is true most scholars agree that Jesus died on Friday 3rd April 33AD, which would make Him about 37-39 years old at His death.

December 25th is an ancient Roman holiday; It was celebration for the sun, and considering Jesus in the “light of the world” (Jn 8:12), the early Christians adopted this feast day into their calendar.