"Christ decended to Hell"

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In the Catechism of the Catholic Church, in section 2, chapter 2, article 5, paragraph 1. It states that Jesus went down to Hell and freed the just from Hell. He also stayed there for 3 days right? So why did the Christ say to the thief, “truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in paradise”.

I’m just a little confused on where the thief goes and whats happening in this verse.

Thanks.
 
After the fall of Adam & Eve, paradise was closed to everyone. Yet, we know from the parable of the rich man and lazarus that there was a place of the dead for those who died in God’s friendship(Lazarus), referred to as Abraham’s bosom and a place of the dead for those damned(rich man). When we say that Jesus descended into hell, it is understood that He went to Abraham’s bosom to preach the good news to them. It wasn’t until his resurrection on the 3rd day that heaven was opened to those in Abraham’s bosom.

While Abraham’s bosom was not heaven, or paradise as we think of it, the repentance of the good thief may very well have kept him from the hell of the damned and put him in Abraham’s bosom until the gates of heaven were opened. There is also another school of thought that says “Truly I say to you today, you shall be with me in Paradise”. Note where the comma is and the difference it makes in our understanding of the verse.
 
Also “today” and “3 days” have no direct correlation to the time-less spiritual realm, when Jesus asserted that the thief would be with him in Paradise “today” he was using our mental constructs.
Once dead time ceases to exist for them, Jesus reappears in our timeline 3 days after to fulfill the OT, He can reappear to us at any given point in time and space He wishes if this is what God’s plan calls for.
 
I have read that ‘Paradise’ was a Greek word meaning the abode of the righteous dead, which is another name for Abraham’s bosom. So he thief goes to the place of the righteous dead, as does Jesus.
 
Part of this is an issue with Translation:

Current use: Hell
The Hell of the Dammed. The place of eternal torment to which those who reject God’s mercy are condemned by their own free will. This includes Satan and the other fallen Angels.

Biblical language: Hades: Sometimes translated as “Hell”. This is the place of the Dead, prior to Judgement. a more traditional catholic word would be Limbo.

The catholic theology is that whatever it’s name, Jesus descended to the place or state where those who had died without rejecting God awaited his Death. He preached to them there (see the epistles). It may be assumed with reasonable safety that some or many would accept Him, and be judged fit for Heaven. (their First Judgement).

Jesus did NOT descend to the place of the Dammed. (what we call Hell in modern parlence). that is referered to as “Gehenna” in the gospels and is different from Hades.
 
ByzCath08 said:
After the fall of Adam & Eve, paradise was closed to everyone. Yet, we know from the parable of the rich man and lazarus that there was a place of the dead for those who died in God’s friendship(Lazarus), referred to as Abraham’s bosom and a place of the dead for those damned(rich man). When we say that Jesus descended into hell, it is understood that He went to Abraham’s bosom to preach the good news to them. It wasn’t until his resurrection on the 3rd day that heaven was opened to those in Abraham’s bosom.

While Abraham’s bosom was not heaven, or paradise as we think of it, the repentance of the good thief may very well have kept him from the hell of the damned and put him in Abraham’s bosom until the gates of heaven were opened. There is also another school of thought that says “Truly I say to you today, you shall be with me in Paradise”. Note where the comma is and the difference it makes in our understanding of the verse.
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I believe it was Christ’s death that opened the gates of Heaven and He could very well have taken the good thief straight to Heaven. Jesus is God. The Trinity is together at all times. God Bless, Memaw
 
A clarification should be made here. The rich man was not in the place of the damned, rather, he was in what we call purgatory today. He actually interceded for his brothers while he was there, and we know that nobody in the place of the damned (Hell as we call it today) can show any such acts of charity.

The comments about Lazarus and the Bosom of Abraham are correct. This Bosom was a sort of Limbo, where the righteous awaited Christ’s Divine Sacrifice in order to be released directly to Heaven. It was a place of no pain or discomfort, rather, they simply waited for Christ.

Furthermore, Christ released people from Abraham’s Bosom the moment He died on the Cross, not during his Resurrection. The evidence is when Christ’s human nature expired on the Cross, the tombs of many holy people opened and they were raised from the dead (Matt 27:52). Only Christ’s human nature spent time in “Hell”, which was Abraham’s Bosom, but his Divine nature was immediately in Heaven, hence, the good thief being with Christ (His Divine nature) the same day Christ told him, but only when Christ’s human nature expired on the Cross. Therefore, if the thief died first, he briefly spent time in this Limbo until Christ’s human nature expired on the Cross, subsequently, he was released to Heaven to be with our Lord (His Divine Nature).
 
Joltin_Joey_Jav said:
A clarification should be made here. The rich man was not in the place of the damned, rather, he was in what we call purgatory today. He actually interceded for his brothers while he was there, and we know that nobody in the place of the damned (Hell as we call it today) can show any such acts of charity.

The comments about Lazarus and the Bosom of Abraham are correct. This Bosom was a sort of Limbo, where the righteous awaited Christ’s Divine Sacrifice in order to be released directly to Heaven. It was a place of no pain or discomfort, rather, they simply waited for Christ.

Furthermore, Christ released people from Abraham’s Bosom the moment He died on the Cross, not during his Resurrection. The evidence is when Christ’s human nature expired on the Cross, the tombs of many holy people opened and they were raised from the dead (Matt 27:52). Only Christ’s human nature spent time in “Hell”, which was Abraham’s Bosom, but his Divine nature was immediately in Heaven, hence, the good thief being with Christ (His Divine nature) the same day Christ told him, but only when Christ’s human nature expired on the Cross. Therefore, if the thief died first, he briefly spent time in this Limbo until Christ’s human nature expired on the Cross, subsequently, he was released to Heaven to be with our Lord (His Divine Nature).
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Jesus died before either of the thieves.They broke the legs of both thieves, so they would die quicker, but did not break the legs of Jesus as he was already dead. Jesus is GOD and He is present everywhere at all times. God less, Memaw
 
Memaw said:
Jesus died before either of the thieves.They broke the legs of both thieves, so they would die quicker, but did not break the legs of Jesus as he was already dead. Jesus is GOD and He is present everywhere at all times. God less, Memaw
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I know Jesus is God. I was only pointing out His human nature went to “Hell” - the Bosom of Abraham (Limbo) - for three days after He expired on the Cross, while His Divine nature was in Heaven. The Divine nature of Christ did NOT die, only His human nature died. Christ is a Divine Being with 2 Natures - a Divine nature and human nature. This is important to understand because the good thief was with Christ (His Divine nature) in Heaven the same day of the Crucifixion, yet, Christ’s human nature still spent three days in “Hell” - the place of the dead or Limbo - before His body Resurrected, and subsequently, ascended into Heaven.
 
JerryZ said:
Also “today” and “3 days” have no direct correlation to the time-less spiritual realm, when Jesus asserted that the thief would be with him in Paradise “today” he was using our mental constructs.
Once dead time ceases to exist for them, Jesus reappears in our timeline 3 days after to fulfill the OT, He can reappear to us at any given point in time and space He wishes if this is what God’s plan calls for.
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Is the spiritual realm timeless, or does time pass just as it does here? For God there is no time, but for us, isn’t it a matter of “time” without end. Don’t we proceed in Purgatory from one state to another. Doesn’t each “day” in Purgatory brings us closer to heaven? Granted, not night and day “days,” but the passage of time nevertheless. When we’ve been there ten thousand years, bright shining as the sun, we’ve no less time to sing God’s praise as when we’d just begun.
 
Joltin_Joey_Jav said:
I know Jesus is God. I was only pointing out His human nature went to “Hell” - the Bosom of Abraham (Limbo) - for three days after He expired on the Cross, while His Divine nature was in Heaven. The Divine nature of Christ did NOT die, only His human nature died. Christ is a Divine Being with 2 Natures - a Divine nature and human nature. This is important to understand because the good thief was with Christ (His Divine nature) in Heaven the same day of the Crucifixion, yet, Christ’s human nature still spent three days in “Hell” - the place of the dead or Limbo - before His body Resurrected, and subsequently, ascended into Heaven.
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Are you saying that for three days Jesus’ dual nature was severed? I am no theologian, but I would assume that Christ’s suffering ended with death on the Cross and that his human nature (sans body) and his divine nature both descended to hell to free the souls awaiting salvation there. Otherwise, he would have had no power to free the souls there. While Jesus Christ is God and therefore everywhere, he was so before he died and after he died, at both times present in heaven. Why there was a waiting period of “3 days” before his body was resurrected, besides to fulfill scripture, I do not know, but I will ask when I get to heaven. So, yes, he could have meant being with the thief in heaven by way of his divine nature alone, or he could have meant that the freeing of the souls (including the thief’s) only took an instant so that both natures were in heaven (sans body) very quickly just as when we die and go straight to heaven without our bodies with an effective plenary indulgence, and that after “3 days” his body was then resurrected to spend 40 days on the earth in his dual nature (with his glorified body). These are my thoughts for your consideration. Peace…

PS-- It also occurs to me that he could have been both in hell and in heaven in both natures at the same time, considering the possibility of bi-location (even though heaven and hell are not “locations” in space and time) as demonstrated by our own Saint Padre Pio during his lifetime. What we know is that at least “bodily” he did not ascend into heaven until 40 days later. Remember he said, “Do not touch me for I have not yet returned to the Father.” That seemed to indicate he had not returned in “bodily” form, hence, “do not touch.” .
 
anruari said:
Part of this is an issue with Translation:

Current use: Hell
The Hell of the Dammed. The place of eternal torment to which those who reject God’s mercy are condemned by their own free will. This includes Satan and the other fallen Angels.

Biblical language: Hades: Sometimes translated as “Hell”. This is the place of the Dead, prior to Judgement. a more traditional catholic word would be Limbo.

The catholic theology is that whatever it’s name, Jesus descended to the place or state where those who had died without rejecting God awaited his Death. He preached to them there (see the epistles). It may be assumed with reasonable safety that some or many would accept Him, and be judged fit for Heaven. (their First Judgement).

Jesus did NOT descend to the place of the Dammed. (what we call Hell in modern parlence). that is referered to as “Gehenna” in the gospels and is different from Hades.
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Wait, why wouldn’t Christ go down to the damned also? I’m not very knowledgeable in Catholic doctrine but wouldn’t it make sense for Christ to visit those who were damned also and give them a chance to accept Christ? Or do Catholics believe that it’s a one and done kinda thing on this earth.

Also, where do people go that aren’t baptized in this life but have the “spirit of baptism” (i don’t remember what it’s called). Or those that haven’t heard the Good News yet. are they in the bosom of Abraham or limbo i think is what i’m gathering that it’s called now. or do they go to Purgatory?

Thanks for the clarifications gents and ladies, this helps a lot
 
Ignore the first part of my response. I guess what I should ask is, did everyone who died before Christ go to Limbo? or were there people that went to Hell right away? And if so, who were these people?
 
xCelticx said:
Ignore the first part of my response. I guess what I should ask is, did everyone who died before Christ go to Limbo? or were there people that went to Hell right away? And if so, who were these people?
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There was no such thing as limbo.

newadvent.org/cathen/01055a.htm

According to the Jewish conceptions of that day, the souls of the dead were gathered into a general tarrying-place the Sheol of the Old Testament literature, and the Hades of the New Testament writings (cf. Luke 16:22; in the Greek 16:23). A local discrimination, however, existed among them, according to their deeds during their mortal life. In the unseen world of the dead the souls of the righteous occupied an abode or compartment of their own which was distinctly separated by a wall or a chasm from the abode or compartment to which the souls of the wicked were consigned. The latter was a place of torments usually spoken of as Gehenna (cf. Matthew 5:29, 30; 18:9; Mark 9:42 sqq. in the Latin Vulgate) — the other, a place of bliss and security known under the names of “Paradise” (cf. Luke 23:43) and “the Bosom of Abraham” (Luke 16:22-23). And it is in harmony with these Jewish conceptions that Our Lord pictured the terrible fate of the selfish Rich Man, and on the contrary, the glorious reward of the patient Lazarus. In the next life Dives found himself in Gehenna, condemned to the most excruciating torments, whereas Lazarus was carried by the angels into “the Bosom of Abraham”, where the righteous dead shared in the repose and felicity of Abraham “the father of the faithful”.
 
JamesCaruso said:
When we’ve been there ten thousand years, bright shining as the sun, we’ve no less time to sing God’s praise as when we’d just begun.
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That quote is beautiful. Is that Scripture you quote above? And if so, is it found in Psalms?

Thanks, Peace.
 
xCelticx said:
Wait, why wouldn’t Christ go down to the damned also? I’m not very knowledgeable in Catholic doctrine but wouldn’t it make sense for Christ to visit those who were damned also and give them a chance to accept Christ? Or do Catholics believe that it’s a one and done kinda thing on this earth.

Also, where do people go that aren’t baptized in this life but have the “spirit of baptism” (i don’t remember what it’s called). Or those that haven’t heard the Good News yet. are they in the bosom of Abraham or limbo i think is what i’m gathering that it’s called now. or do they go to Purgatory?

Thanks for the clarifications gents and ladies, this helps a lot
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Here, when we say hell, we are refrring to the place where just souls went awaiting the opening of the gates of heaven by Our Lord. Hell in this sense is not meant as the place of the damned. Sorry for not making that clear. It is clear to most Catholics and is in our Creed.
 
peace2u2 said:
That quote is beautiful. Is that Scripture you quote above? And if so, is it found in Psalms?

Thanks, Peace.
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It’s from the hymn, Amazing Grace, the words written by the English poet and clergyman John Newton (1725–1807), an Anglican clergyman, but I have not researched it to see if it is also contained in Holy Scripture. Of course, the concept is certainly contained in Holy Scripture.
 
anruari said:
Part of this is an issue with Translation:

Current use: Hell
The Hell of the Dammed. The place of eternal torment to which those who reject God’s mercy are condemned by their own free will. This includes Satan and the other fallen Angels.

Biblical language: Hades: Sometimes translated as “Hell”. This is the place of the Dead, prior to Judgement. a more traditional catholic word would be Limbo.

The catholic theology is that whatever it’s name, Jesus descended to the place or state where those who had died without rejecting God awaited his Death. He preached to them there (see the epistles). It may be assumed with reasonable safety that some or many would accept Him, and be judged fit for Heaven. (their First Judgement).

Jesus did NOT descend to the place of the Dammed. (what we call Hell in modern parlence). that is referered to as “Gehenna” in the gospels and is different from Hades.
Click to expand...
Good points.

Just goes to show, English, as many things translate to the same word, isn’t the best language to convey Catholic theology.
 
Pope Benedict as then Cardinal Ratzinger wrote that Christ suffered on the cross the reality of emptiness and loneliness of hell so in that sense there was a real contact with the void of separation from God, but in touching that void he conquered it which is why His actual descent into hell or hades or sheol (realm of the dead) is always portrayed in the Fathers as victorious and triumphant. Now one does not have to be distanced from God; rather they can see Him face to face or, conversely, choose to separate themselves eternally from God.
 
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