Christ Did NOT make Peter the head of the church

  • Thread starter Thread starter Tomyris
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Jon_S said:
See my underline above. Did you miss that part? The Catholic Church teaches that all the Bishops have and share authority. They are united with Zpeter who is the prince of the apostles. A leader and organizer and debate settler when needed.
Click to expand...
We both know this is a half truth. The RC denomination does indeed teach that all bishops share and have authority. But what you neglected to say is that the denomination teaches that one bishop in particular is higher, and greater than all the other bishops. This is contra the teaching of the early church.
These quotes, besides the fact that you missed the point of them, teach too much. You as a son of the reformation deny the authority of ANY of the bishops. You trade it for congregating around a like minded speaker.
Click to expand...
Nonsense. My denomination has loads of bishops, and I accept their authority. Many protestants have bishops. I don’t think you know very much about the “sons of the reformation”.
 
adrift said:
He also said to cut off your hand and put out your eye . What does Jesus mean when He calls Peter Satan. Obviously he doesn’t mean the fallen angel which is one meaning but another meaning is 1) adversary (one who opposes another in purpose or act). Jesus said He was a stumbling block. However, you ignored
Click to expand...
I believe you are incorrect. Jesus was rebuking (exorcising) the devil out of Peter. He wasn’t calling Peter Satan.

Mark 8: 33 But turning and looking at his disciples, he rebuked Peter and said, “Get behind me, Satan! For you are setting your mind not on divine things but on human things.”

catholic-resources.org/Bible/Exorcisms.htm
 
House_Harkonnen said:
We both know this is a half truth. The RC denomination does indeed teach that all bishops share and have authority. But what you neglected to say is that the denomination teaches that one bishop in particular is higher, and greater than all the other bishops. This is contra the teaching of the early church.

Nonsense. My denomination has loads of bishops, and I accept their authority. Many protestants have bishops. I don’t think you know very much about the “sons of the reformation”.
Click to expand...
The Catholic Church is not a denomination…nor are the orthodox. Saying so, proves that you are either ignorant of the origins and meaning of the term, or you are trying to be inflammatory.

Either way I suggest you cease.

When there is not one bishop as leader, it results in a thousand year stagnation (orthodox) or countless splits (Lutherans). Well done.
 
Jon_S said:
The Catholic Church is not a denomination…nor are the orthodox. Saying so, proves that you are either ignorant of the origins and meaning of the term, or you are trying to be inflammatory.
Click to expand...
It is a denomination if you speak English.
When there is not one bishop as leader, it results in a thousand year stagnation (orthodox) or countless splits (Lutherans).
Click to expand...
That sounds nice but it’s not consistent with the witness of scripture or the early church.
 
House_Harkonnen said:
It is a denomination if you speak English.

That sounds nice but it’s not consistent with the witness of scripture or the early church.
Click to expand...
Sure it is, after Acts 15, a single decision was made and a letter sent to all the churches telling them the decision that they were to follow.

Each church/bishop was not left to his own devices, such novelty did not appear for 1500 years.
 
Jon_S said:
Sure it is, after Acts 15, a single decision was made and a letter sent to all the churches telling them the decision that they were to follow.

Each church/bishop was not left to his own devices, such novelty did not appear for 1500 years.
Click to expand...
Now you are just knocking down straw men. No protestant denomination leaves its bishops to its own devices.
 
House_Harkonnen said:
Now you are just knocking down straw men. No protestant denomination leaves its bishops to its own devices.
Click to expand...
Have you ever heard of “evangelical free churches”? The free means they are free of authority outside their individual church.

Ever heard of non denominationals ?

What about when your church divides? The bishops separate themselves based on their own opinions.
 
The word denomination has no bearing on the Church. It is only used because there were so many protestant denominations. Even the non-denominational ones are protestant.
 
Jon_S said:
Have you ever heard of “evangelical free churches”? The free means they are free of authority outside their individual church.
Click to expand...
No, it means that each congregation is autonomous in electing its presbyters and overseers. There is still a governing body of the EV free Church. Not to mention it was created as a unification and merger of several different churches. Not by division.
Ever heard of non denominationals ?
Click to expand...
Yes. They aren’t a denomination.
What about when your church divides? The bishops separate themselves based on their own opinions.
Click to expand...
Not anymore than when your denomination divides.
 
Jon_S said:
See my underline above. Did you miss that part? The Catholic Church teaches that all the Bishops have and share authority. They are united with Zpeter who is the prince of the apostles. A leader and organizer and debate settler when needed.
Click to expand...
Jon, it is much more than a leader, organizer and settler:
  • Can. 331 The bishop of the Roman Church, in whom continues the office given by the Lord uniquely to Peter, the first of the Apostles, and to be transmitted to his successors, is the head of the college of bishops, the Vicar of Christ, and the pastor of the universal Church on earth. By virtue of his office he possesses supreme, full, immediate, and universal ordinary power in the Church, which he is always able to exercise freely.
  • Can. 332 §1. The Roman Pontiff obtains full and supreme power in the Church by his acceptance of legitimate election together with episcopal consecration. Therefore, a person elected to the supreme pontificate who is marked with episcopal character obtains this power from the moment of acceptance. If the person elected lacks episcopal character, however, he is to be ordained a bishop immediately.
  • Can. 333 §1. By virtue of his office, the Roman Pontiff not only possesses power offer the universal Church but also obtains the primacy of ordinary power offer all particular churches and groups of them. Moreover, this primacy strengthens and protects the proper, ordinary, and immediate power which bishops possess in the particular churches entrusted to their care.
Take a note of: supreme, full, immediate, universal, ordinary powers over the entire Church regardless of location, province or any other condition you can think of.
  • Can. 1404 The First See is judged by no one.
  • Can. 338 §1. It is for the Roman Pontiff alone to convoke an ecumenical council, preside offer it personally or through others, transfer, suspend, or dissolve a council, and to approve its decrees.
The Bishops have 0 authority outside of Rome.
 
Read the scriptures. Jesus placed Peter in Charge as we see in Matthew 16:18 and in the Acts of the Apostles we see Peter taking the Lead. Simple…
 
Karen107 said:
The word denomination has no bearing on the Church. It is only used because there were so many protestant denominations. Even the non-denominational ones are protestant.
Click to expand...
Here is Webster’s definition of “denomination”. Can you tell us how the RC church doesn’t fit definition 4?
1
: an act of denominating
2
: a value or size of a series of values or sizes (as of money)
3
: name, designation; especially : a general name for a category
4
: a religious organization whose congregations are united in their adherence to its beliefs and practices
— de·nom·i·na·tion·al adjective
— de·nom·i·na·tion·al·ly adverb
Click to expand...
 
Isaiah45_9 said:
Jon, it is much more than a leader, organizer and settler:
  • Can. 331 The bishop of the Roman Church, in whom continues the office given by the Lord uniquely to Peter, the first of the Apostles, and to be transmitted to his successors, is the head of the college of bishops, the Vicar of Christ, and the pastor of the universal Church on earth. By virtue of his office he possesses supreme, full, immediate, and universal ordinary power in the Church, which he is always able to exercise freely.
  • Can. 332 §1. The Roman Pontiff obtains full and supreme power in the Church by his acceptance of legitimate election together with episcopal consecration. Therefore, a person elected to the supreme pontificate who is marked with episcopal character obtains this power from the moment of acceptance. If the person elected lacks episcopal character, however, he is to be ordained a bishop immediately.
  • Can. 333 §1. By virtue of his office, the Roman Pontiff not only possesses power offer the universal Church but also obtains the primacy of ordinary power offer all particular churches and groups of them. Moreover, this primacy strengthens and protects the proper, ordinary, and immediate power which bishops possess in the particular churches entrusted to their care.
Take a note of: supreme, full, immediate, universal, ordinary powers over the entire Church regardless of location, province or any other condition you can think of.
  • Can. 1404 The First See is judged by no one.
  • Can. 338 §1. It is for the Roman Pontiff alone to convoke an ecumenical council, preside offer it personally or through others, transfer, suspend, or dissolve a council, and to approve its decrees.
The Bishops have 0 authority outside of Rome.
Click to expand...
Baby steps for our Protestant brothers…baby steps.
 
Karen107 said:
Read the scriptures. Jesus placed Peter in Charge as we see in Matthew 16:18 and in the Acts of the Apostles we see Peter taking the Lead. Simple…
Click to expand...
No one disputes that Peter was a leader. We dispute that he had full universal immediate jurisdiction over the over apostles, and we dispute that he ever used this power, nor did popes for hundreds of years claim that power.
 
Karen107 said:
The meaning of the word came into being after Protestantism began.
Click to expand...
False.
denomination (n.) Look up denomination at Dictionary.com
late 14c., “a naming, act of giving a name to,” from Old French denominacion “nominating, naming,” from Latin denominationem (nominative denominatio) “a calling by anything other than the proper name, metonymy,” from denominare “to name,” from de- “completely” (see de-) + nominare “to name” (see nominate). Meaning “a class” is from mid-15c. Monetary sense is 1650s; meaning “religious sect” is 1716.
Click to expand...
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top