Christ died for us? So?

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A better question would be this: why does the Messiah need to die, given that the Old Testament doesn’t actually seem to stipulate the stonewall requirement for sacrifices. Works of charity are said to save people as is prayer.

Another question would be: why is there not a single verse in the Old Testament that prophecies that the Messiah would die for the sins of everyone, be buried and raise again?
 
BenjaminDaVinci said:
A better question would be this: why does the Messiah need to die, given that the Old Testament doesn’t actually seem to stipulate the stonewall requirement for sacrifices. Works of charity are said to save people as is prayer.

Another question would be: why is there not a single verse in the Old Testament that prophecies that the Messiah would die for the sins of everyone, be buried and raise again?
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I think you missed the book of Isaiah & a few Psalms
 
safa92 said:
I don’t understand how Christ dying on the cross did anything? Why did God do it? Isn’t he the one that makes the rules? Can’t he just redeem us because he says so?
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It was God who suffered and died for us in human flesh, when the time was ripe in human history. That’s what He would endure to prove what He probably should never have to prove: a goodness and love so deep and wide and vast that it’s beyond our immediate comprehension, and only barely perceivable as we turn to Him and begin to embrace the brilliant light that only He can show us-as we begin to embrace and then reflect the love that is the offspring of fellowship or communion with Him.

With this most high and ultimate act of love He intends to draw us towards himself, never forcing us to believe just as he wouldn’t force Adam to believe and obey to begin with.
 
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BenjaminDaVinci said:
A better question would be this: why does the Messiah need to die, given that the Old Testament doesn’t actually seem to stipulate the stonewall requirement for sacrifices. Works of charity are said to save people as is prayer.

Another question would be: why is there not a single verse in the Old Testament that prophecies that the Messiah would die for the sins of everyone, be buried and raise again?
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John 19:32–19:37
32 The soldiers therefore came; and they broke the legs of the first, and of the other that was crucified with him.
33 But after they were come to Jesus, when they saw that he was already dead, they did not break his legs.
34 But one of the soldiers with a spear opened his side, and immediately there came out blood and water.
35 And he that saw it, hath given testimony, and his testimony is true. And he knoweth that he saith true; that you also may believe.
36 For these things were done, that the scripture might be fulfilled: You shall not break a bone of him. [Ex 12:46, Ps 34:20]
37 And again another scripture saith: They shall look on him whom they pierced. [Zech 12:10]
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Also Suffering Servant: Isa 53:7-8 and Acts 8:32-35
The ransom, righteous one: Isa 53:11; Isa. 53:12; Jn 8:34-36; Acts 3:14
 
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you have to stand back and look at what He said, how He treated others and see the reactions of others toward Him. He did not just die for us, He took on the sins of the world. What are the sins of the world? Do you know?
 
mary77 said:
you have to stand back and look at what He said, how He treated others and see the reactions of others toward Him. He did not just die for us, He took on the sins of the world. What are the sins of the world? Do you know?
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All sins are due to our disobedience to God and disobedience is generated by our lack of faith in God, in His goodness and love. Throught His Passion, Christ shows us how great is His love for us, He uproots from our heart our distrust and doubts about God’s love, so that we may have faith in Him, reject sin and be sanctified.

So, using an allegorical language, we may say that He took on the sins of the world.
 
He was inflicted with the same pain and dissappointment and injustice each of us experience individually in our own lives. There is nothing we cant identify with, no sin against us and many sins we do ourselves that were done to Christ. His sacrifice to us to let us see, to free us from the darkness of sin.
 
mary77 said:
He was inflicted with the same pain and dissappointment and injustice each of us experience individually in our own lives.
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I have never been crucified, nor were you (I suppose), so I do not understand what you mean.
mary77 said:
There is nothing we cant identify with, no sin against us and many sins we do ourselves that were done to Christ.
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The point is that, through His Passion, Christ took away sin of the world, because He uproots from our heart our distrust and doubts about God’s love, so that we may have faith in Him, reject sin and be sanctified.

Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world (John 1:29)

See also: 1 John 3: 16 This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us.
 
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Christ showed us sins effect on us. Christ showed us the way to react to sin and showed us the way to rise above sin. Christ showed the Truth and the Way. He showed us to pray pray pray… to place all out attention on God as can…What a witness of love to do that to become our savior here on Earth to face the things we face except for our will to Sin.
 
I’ve seen them. The suffering servant in Isaiah is explicitly said to be Israel. There isn’t actually a single text in the Old Testament that prophecies that the Messiah would die and rise again.
 
Have you read Isaiah 52 and Isaiah 54? The Suffering Servant in Isaiah is explicitly said to be Israel in that book. This is one of the main reasons I have an issue with the claim that Jesus is the Messiah in the first place. John quotes Psalm 22, but Psalm 22 doesn’t say “pierced” in the Hebrew.
 
BenjaminDaVinci said:
Have you read Isaiah 52 and Isaiah 54? The Suffering Servant in Isaiah is explicitly said to be Israel in that book. This is one of the main reasons I have an issue with the claim that Jesus is the Messiah in the first place. …
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Yes I studied Isaiah in class. Isaiah has various meanings for Israel, per my teacher for that book. I noted Isa 53:7-8, 11-12

You wrote: “Psalm 22 doesn’t say “pierced” in the Hebrew”

Strong’s Concordance shows Psalm 22:16 uses pierced.

Word: DXK
Pronounce: kaw-raw’
Strong: H3738
 
Personally, I do not think that the faith in Christ can be founded on the interpretation of some prophecies; in fact the fundamental reason why I believe in Jesus Christ, is that I find that the christian concept of God and of divine love is the highest possible concept. I find that the idea itself that God loves us so much that He chose to assume the human nature and accepted to suffer crucifission in order to save us, expresses such a high concept of God and of divine love that it can comes only from God. This concept is fully convincing for me, it proves itself by itself and makes superfluous any other arguments . I believe that Chirst suffered His Passion to help us to have faith in Him and trust Him, to make us understand that God loves us infinitely, that God is good and mercifull and that God is near to us so that we may open our heart to Him, be in communion with Him and be saved.

Many religions teach that God is love, but the problem is to define what the word “love” means, because by itself it could be only a vague and generic concept.
The christian faith is unique because it gives a very concrete and unique meaning to the concept of divine love: in fact God’s love actualizes in the acceptance of a terrible physical suffering; the God of the christian faith loves us so much that He is willing to suffer a painful death in order to save us. In the christian faith, love is not only a theoretical and vague concept; Christ’s Passion is a clear and concrete realization of the concept of divine love which teaches us what is the true meaning of love. I think that this christian idea of divine love is the highest possible concept of divine love and it is the fundamental reason why I believe that Christ is God.
 
Mmarco said:
Christ’s Passion is a clear and concrete realization of the concept of divine love which teaches us what is the true meaning of love.
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Christ died for me and everyone else, so he must love each and everyone of us as he loves himself - the greatest commandments.
 
No, it means “to dig”. Literally speaking, it reads in the Masoretic Text “like a lion, my hands and my feet”. One way to understand the verb here is to understand it as using a poetic technique called ellipsis, so something like “they encircled my hands and feet”. The LXX bears witness to the alternative, that is to say “they dug my hands and feet”, with the verb ὀρύσσω meaning “to burrow/to dig”. This passage is an awkward construction given the ancient versions, but it’s not likely to read “to pierce”.

I don’t know where you’re getting that Strong’s concordance says “to pierce” when it doesn’t say that? See here:

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
 
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If God just said “the world’s sins are forgiven” would we believe it? No, we wouldn’t; we’d probably think it couldn’t be true or that any being could love us as much as God claims to.

Since words are wind, God decided to demonstrate His love with actions. He chose to become a human, to live in the mire and misery with the rest of us, to live an incorrupt life to show it can be done, and when we decided to exeucte Him for it He not only refused to fight back but prayed for the forgiveness of the men who stabbed Him in His side. Then He rose from the dead and told us our sins were forgiven. If God was willing to forgive us for murdering Him then we have no reason to doubt the limitlessness of His mercy.
 
BenjaminDaVinci said:
No, it means “to dig”. Literally speaking, it reads in the Masoretic Text “like a lion, my hands and my feet”. One way to understand the verb here is to understand it as using a poetic technique called ellipsis, so something like “they encircled my hands and feet”. The LXX bears witness to the alternative, that is to say “they dug my hands and feet”, with the verb ὀρύσσω meaning “to burrow/to dig”. This passage is an awkward construction given the ancient versions, but it’s not likely to read “to pierce”.

I don’t know where you’re getting that Strong’s concordance says “to pierce” when it doesn’t say that? See here:
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You did not click the link that I provided to Strong’s? Certainly is can mean pierce.
a primitive root; properly, to dig; figuratively, to plot; generally, to bore or open:–dig, X make (a banquet), open.
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BenjaminDaVinci said:
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Vico:
a primitive root; properly, to dig; figuratively, to plot; generally, to bore or open:–dig, X make (a banquet), open.
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Where does it say “pierce” here?
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to bore or open
 
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