Christ-Focused Prayer for Rosary

  • Thread starter Thread starter DaveBj
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
there are many scriptural rosaries published, for anyone who has an issue with the Hail Mary - which is not required for Catholics, neither is the rosary itself, it is a private devotion. The scriptural rosary can be prayed with or without beads, reading the verse and meditating on it. Those of us who do pray the rosary like the way the rhythm of the prayers focus us for meditation on the mysteries of the life of Christ.

Dear friend

At Mass we offer our bidding prayers with the intercession of Mary, the prayers are said and immediately after we say the Hail Mary, for Catholics Mary is not optional, only the devotions of the Rosary etc are, but the love of Mary and devotion in Mary and the solemn dogmas on Mary are not…I am sorry what you have said here is misinformation and it may be an idea for you to research in dogma of Mary in the church exactly what we believe and the Church teaches about her. If the Catholic Majesterium declares it, it has to be believed by the layity and the religious…period, just as any solemn dogma, e.g. The Real Presence.

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa
 
40.png
Teresa9:
Dear friend
(snip)…, for Catholics Mary is not optional, only the devotions of the Rosary etc are, but the love of Mary and devotion in Mary and the solemn dogmas on Mary are not…I am sorry what you have said here is misinformation and it may be an idea for you to research in dogma of Mary in the church exactly what we believe and the Church teaches about her. If the Catholic Majesterium declares it, it has to be believed by the layity and the religious…period, just as any solemn dogma, e.g. The Real Presence.

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa
Click to expand...
Glory to Jesus Christ!

Dear Teresa,

I wonder if you have any idea how harsh your instruction sounds? I mean no disrespect but I hear comments like this a lot and it can actually be counter-productive. The Catholic Faith is all sweetness and beauty but we sometimes come across as YOU MUST this and YOU MUST that. 😦

This is a most common problem with people undergoing a conversion process. For those individuals who have found Christ first outside the church, they want to understand and fully embrace everything the church teaches including the Marian doctrines, but it is very difficult to internalize and takes time even for the most ardent converts.

Your statement sounds to me like “sorry bud, you don’t cut the mustard! shape up!” 😉

This “in your face” approach will not win hearts, believe me!

One final point, the Early Fathers emphasized Mary’s role in Salvation history as part of the Christological controversy. There were still many people in those days who didn’t understand that Christ was fully Divine while being fully human. The church’s insistance on a devotion to Mary was, in a way, like snapping a lock on the doctrine of Christ’s Divinity.

One can intellectually assent to this doctrine without actually “feeling” a great deal of affection for her. Respect and understanding of her role as Christ-Bearer, sinless saint and as an available Intercessor (whether we choose to avail ourselves of her or not) should be more than sufficient for a Catholic.

It is much like saying “I know George Bush is President, I respect him for that and I understand that he has this awesome power to wage war and make a peace. I address him with respect when I meet him, I defer to his Office and I ask him for help. These things I know to be true! But I don’t necessarily love him like one of my own kin and I don’t think of him as a personal friend, although some day I hope to”.

No one that I know of has suggested that Mary can be summarily dismissed, but if anyone doesn’t feel a strong impulse to seek her prayers of intercession or lay their own personal concerns at her feet they cannot be criticized for that.
 
40.png
Hesychios:
Glory to Jesus Christ!

Dear Teresa,

I wonder if you have any idea how harsh your instruction sounds? I mean no disrespect but I hear comments like this a lot and it can actually be counter-productive. The Catholic Faith is all sweetness and beauty but we sometimes come across as YOU MUST this and YOU MUST that. 😦

This is a most common problem with people undergoing a conversion process. For those individuals who have found Christ first outside the church, they want to understand and fully embrace everything the church teaches including the Marian doctrines, but it is very difficult to internalize and takes time even for the most ardent converts.

Your statement sounds to me like “sorry bud, you don’t cut the mustard! shape up!” 😉

This “in your face” approach will not win hearts, believe me!

One final point, the Early Fathers emphasized Mary’s role in Salvation history as part of the Christological controversy. There were still many people in those days who didn’t understand that Christ was fully Divine while being fully human. The church’s insistance on a devotion to Mary was, in a way, like snapping a lock on the doctrine of Christ’s Divinity.

One can intellectually assent to this doctrine without actually “feeling” a great deal of affection for her. Respect and understanding of her role as Christ-Bearer, sinless saint and as an available Intercessor (whether we choose to avail ourselves of her or not) should be more than sufficient for a Catholic.

It is much like saying “I know George Bush is President, I respect him for that and I understand that he has this awesome power to wage war and make a peace. I address him with respect when I meet him, I defer to his Office and I ask him for help. These things I know to be true! But I don’t necessarily love him like one of my own kin and I don’t think of him as a personal friend, although some day I hope to”.

No one that I know of has suggested that Mary can be summarily dismissed, but if anyone doesn’t feel a strong impulse to seek her prayers of intercession or lay their own personal concerns at her feet they cannot be criticized for that.
Click to expand...
Dear friend

Thank you for your post. This is not aggressive what I have said, it is the infallible teaching of the church, and yes the church does say, you must believe this and you must believe that, or what are we to believe?

When Christ preached of his True presence and said you must eat my flesh and drink my blood and the people went away at this, He didn’t go after them saying, ok , bit hard to take, come back and I’ll lie to you, I’ll make it different so you might like it better. No, He said what He said and what He said was truth, truth is truth and if someone cannot come to that truth by pondering it in their hearts and coming to it because that is what the truth is then we may as well not have the truth. I will not make the truth anything but what it is, it is just as it is, to say anything other is a lie.

Should I lie therefore when no-one in the Majesterium has lied about the solemn doctrines and dogmas that are declared infallible, should I lie about Jesus and Mary just so it may not offend someone? No I cannot, we believe it because it is the truth, and if the truth is not accepted, my words nor another who lessens the truth will ever win that heart because that heart is closed, doesn’t want to open their hearts and ears and eyes to perceive…is this harsh? No the truth is a sword and the sword cuts …and that is it…truth xxx

Remain faithful this IS the narrow road and if it is hard to tread and people find it hard to do and take into their hearts this is because it is the cross to carry, belief is not something to play at, it is a road after Jesus Himself, it is not something we can water down to suit people, people have to come to God with a willing heart …Lord I believe, help my unbelief!! xxxxxx

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa
 
40.png
Hesychios:
Dear Teresa,

I think you missed my point completely.
Click to expand...
Dear friend

I don’t want to miss the point, so if you are telling me I have missed the point, then can I ask you if you would please point it out to me.🙂

I don’t desire to be right because of my pride, I desire to be right for the right reasons, not because I think something, but because it is the truth of God as laid out by the Catholic church handed down from Christ Jesus Himself.

What I have said is the truth, on this medium you cannot tell a tone of voice, nor see my face when I type. It is not aggression nor telling someone ‘they’ are not good enough as all people are God’s children and God loves them all equally all of the time. What I said , I said because it is the truth.

God bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa
 
Dear Lord, do not allow the rewriting of this most beautiful and most complete Catholic prayer! Holy Mother pray for us!

I could not have put it any better than that!

Thanks for making me smile!! :rotfl:
 
40.png
Teresa9:
Dear friend

I don’t want to miss the point, so if you are telling me I have missed the point, then can I ask you if you would please point it out to me.🙂

I don’t desire to be right because of my pride, I desire to be right for the right reasons, not because I think something, but because it is the truth of God as laid out by the Catholic church handed down from Christ Jesus Himself.

What I have said is the truth, on this medium you cannot tell a tone of voice, nor see my face when I type. It is not aggression nor telling someone ‘they’ are not good enough as all people are God’s children and God loves them all equally all of the time. What I said , I said because it is the truth.

God bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa
Click to expand...
Glory to Jesus Christ!

Dear Teresa,

I am sorry if what I have said offends you, that was not my intent, but I thought that the issue was important enough to make a comment.

The point is that conversion is a process.

A person might dislike a prayer because it does not reflect their own spirituality, that they may not wish to recite any such prayer as the Ave Maria 50 or 150 times at a sitting is no indication that they are not finding Truth.

There have been several good ideas here about helping non-Catholics get used to a prayer rule like the Rosary. I find nothing wrong with them, the intent is fine and noble.

DaveBJ, Edwin1961 and asquared have all presented good ideas that may be very good evangelizing tools. They would make Father Matteo Ricci proud!

To imply that the standard Rosary has a pride of place in Catholic spirituality and by extension, anyone who does not promote it is hiding or denying Catholic theology in some way is unfortunate. That is like making the Rosary a litmus test for Catholic Orthodoxy, it cannot be used that way.

I can tell you that after the Mass (Divine Liturgy) it is the Liturgy of the Hours (Divine Praises) that is the primary prayer of the church, yet most Catholics are entirely clueless about that. The Rosary is a personal prayer rule, and as much as we would like to see it popular, those who cannot or will not pray the Rosary are not for that reason alone denying Catholic theology.

Those who are not yet Catholic could use an un-intrusive prayer rule to get used to the practice, coming from traditions that outright condemn repetitive prayer that is a monumental step for them, stretching the boundaries of their spiritual lives and opening them up to the work of the Holy Spirit. A Catholic who teaches such prayers is not violating any Catholic precepts, but on the contrary is doing a great service.

In Christ Always
 
40.png
Hesychios:
Glory to Jesus Christ!

Dear Teresa,

I am sorry if what I have said offends you, that was not my intent, but I thought that the issue was important enough to make a comment.

The point is that conversion is a process.

A person might dislike a prayer because it does not reflect their own spirituality, that they may not wish to recite any such prayer as the Ave Maria 50 or 150 times at a sitting is no indication that they are not finding Truth.

There have been several good ideas here about helping non-Catholics get used to a prayer rule like the Rosary. I find nothing wrong with them, the intent is fine and noble.

DaveBJ, Edwin1961 and asquared have all presented good ideas that may be very good evangelizing tools. They would make Father Matteo Ricci proud!

To imply that the standard Rosary has a pride of place in Catholic spirituality and by extension, anyone who does not promote it is hiding or denying Catholic theology in some way is unfortunate. That is like making the Rosary a litmus test for Catholic Orthodoxy, it cannot be used that way.

I can tell you that after the Mass (Divine Liturgy) it is the Liturgy of the Hours (Divine Praises) that is the primary prayer of the church, yet most Catholics are entirely clueless about that. The Rosary is a personal prayer rule, and as much as we would like to see it popular, those who cannot or will not pray the Rosary are not for that reason alone denying Catholic theology.

Those who are not yet Catholic could use an un-intrusive prayer rule to get used to the practice, coming from traditions that outright condemn repetitive prayer that is a monumental step for them, stretching the boundaries of their spiritual lives and opening them up to the work of the Holy Spirit. A Catholic who teaches such prayers is not violating any Catholic precepts, but on the contrary is doing a great service.

In Christ Always
Click to expand...
Dear friend

Please would you read all of my posts in this thread as I think you may have misunderstood what I have said. I don’t want to repeat myself.

I know it is a conversion process all throughout our faiths, this is why in pre4vious posts I have said let people ponder what they need to to come to things in their own hearts.

As this thread is about the alteration of the Rosary , I was simply answering it is not appropriate to do that. It is the original poster who wishes to give his Christian friends a Rosary and change the prayers, it seems a waste of time to me to do this. How will the prayers relate to scripture ? How will the prayers bring an understanding of Christ in scripture not only in relation to His Mother but through (as we stand with Mary as a disciple, she was His first disciple ‘Christian’) Mary how we see Christ and love Him.

As I have previously posted, I suggested that he may like to leave the Rosary and let people come to things in their own time, by simply answering their questions about Mary.

You have misread my posts and my intentions. Dear friend you have not offended me and I don’t think for one minute you would want to 🙂 , please don’t worry about that. I understand what you are saying and in all respects what you have said is true, but we cannot take it upon ourselves to change the set devotions, yes they are devotions and as such optional, but we cannot pass them onto another as anything different from what they are as approved by Mother Church. You are right the Divine Office is the prayer of the church, but this is another topic and dear friend, we cannot change that prayer either, nor is it compulsory for lay people to say this prayer as it is with the prayer of the Rosary.

Take care and

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa
 
Dear Teresa,

Thank you for clearing that up, perhaps I have mis-understood your intention. You seem like one of the sweetest posters on the Forums here.

I understand your opinion about the Rosary being passed on unchanged, however it is not my opinion so we will have to agree to disagree. I think that it is the nature of these things to evolve, and the history of the Rosary is a good example of that. However, as I said you are entitled to your opinion.

One final point. You mentioned something at the end of your post that seems to say that it is compulsory for laypeople to say the Rosary, not so! One not ever feel compelled to say the Rosary, it is a purely optional devotion.

On the other hand, Priests and other religious of the Latin church do have some obligation to pray the Liturgy of the Hours as best as they are able. Various dioceses and religious orders probably have established different minimum requirements. Also, it is very common for Monasteries and other religious groups to modify the LOTH as necessary for them, the LOTH at my local Benedictine abbey is a custom-crafted one reflecting their own usage, other monasteries I have been to likewise customize their books.

Good luck and may God abundantly bless you
 
How about this… repeated on every bead, no matter the size or placement of the bead…

Jesus, I trust in You.

Another idea –
They can say their version of the Lord’s Prayer… the one that has wording on it that isn’t in the Bible at the passage where Jesus quotes to His disciples how to pray…

each line of this is one of 10 lines… one for each bead in a decade.

They can settle in and contemplate each of these lines, holding onto that bead, until the next bead when they say the next line.

**Our Father, Who art in Heaven,
Hallowed be Thy name.
Thy kingdom come,
Thy will be done
On Earth as it is in Heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread.
And forgive us our trespasses,
as we forgive those who trespass against us.
And lead us not into temptation (a.k.a. the trial),
but deliver us from evil. **

At the big bead between the other sets of 10 beads, they can say their own ending to the Lord’s Prayer, which is

for Thine is the kingdom, the power, and the glory.

Of course, once you change what you’re praying at the beads of the rosary, you are no longer saying a rosary.

You’re merely using the beads as a counting device.

Remember, it’s the rosary that the Devil hates with a passion! Not a reworded “look-alike” prayer.

You’d be doing nobody a service by giving them an alternative if you simply want to encourage them to pray the rosary.

I strongly recommend that you do not water down the rosary by putting different words to it. Offer the person the beads, explain to them what the parts of the Hail Mary prayer is, explain why we talk to her… why we ask her to pray for us like we ask our other friends to pray for us.

That she, of course, is not divine.

That prayer for us Catholics is NOT the same meaning as “worship.”
 
Dear friend

Thank you for your reply and your patience with me, it is good to discuss this out.

I have stated in a few of my posts on here that the Rosary is a devotion and therefore is not compulsory to practice it, the church encourages the Rosary prayer because of it’s powerful intercession, but it is not a dogma to say it.

Those orders you have mentioned who have revised versions of the Divine office have that because the authority of the church allows, as lay people we do not have any such authority to alter, re-arrange of reword pre-set prayers. Those orders as you have rightly said have this because it pertains to particular charisms in their orders, it is not because they change it as and when they feel like it, it is an adaptation for their order. No-one can presume to change any of the prayers of the church and hand them onto another, we do not have the authority to do this. Just the same as we do not have the authority to change the greatest prayer of the church, which is the Holy Mass.

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top