Christ in the smallest particles

[youthcrusader]

If the whole Christ, body, blood, soul, and divinity, is contained in even the smallest particles of the Host, what happens to the tiny particles that break off the Host? Is Christ’s body trampled under foot by the priest unknowingly because the particles may fall onto the ground? What about the *tiniest *particles, the ones we can only see at a molecular level? Are they signficant?

 

[Verbum_Caro]

Great question youthcrusader.

Hold on tight! You are going to get some good answers!

 

[youthcrusader]

Verbum Caro:

Great question youthcrusader.

Hold on tight! You are going to get some good answers!

Cool! This is just a question I’ve had for a long time because I noticed at Mass, when the priest breaks the Host, small almost invisible particles seem to scatter everywhere.

 

[MaryAgnes]

youthcrusader:

Cool! This is just a question I’ve had for a long time because I noticed at Mass, when the priest breaks the Host, small almost invisible particles seem to scatter everywhere.

And just think about it … the bread Jesus probably used would have made even more crumbs and miniscule fragments! Still, Jesus gave himself to us under the signs of bread and wine just the same!

Surely Jesus knew what would happen. I wonder, then, if we sometimes get more caught up in things that did not even concern our Lord … and ignore those things that did concern him (like the poor, the marginalized, the alien, etc.) … Just a thought.

 

[tee_eff_em]

This is why the priest ought to be doing any fractioning over the Eucharistic vessels (ciborium, paten or chalice) and/or over the corporal. The corporal is a sacred linen whose purpose, AFAIK, is to catch crumbs. It ought to be folded in thirds twice (ie two horizontal and two vertical folds) in order to contain particles. It is later respectfully purified.

And as for microscopic/molecular particles: I am told that when the sacred species cease to be recognized (that is: when they no longer look like bread and wine), the sacramental presence of our Lord ends. I’ve never recognized an individual molecule of bread, so I wouldn’t worry about it.

tee

 

[MaryAgnes]

tee_eff_em:

And as for microscopic/molecular particles: I am told that when the sacred species cease to be recognized (that is: when they no longer look like bread and wine), the sacramental presence of our Lord ends. I’ve never recognized an individual molecule of bread, so I wouldn’t worry about it.

tee

You are so correct! Jesus gave himself to us in the signs of bread to be eaten and wine to be drunk … when it ceases to be either of those the sacramental presence of our Lord ends. However, we still purify the corporal and purificators with respect.

We have a deacon who almost licks the patten clean of any minicule particles … ugh!

 

[Shiann]

youthcrusader:

If the whole Christ, body, blood, soul, and divinity, is contained in even the smallest particles of the Host, what happens to the tiny particles that break off the Host? Is Christ’s body trampled under foot by the priest unknowingly because the particles may fall onto the ground? What about the *tiniest *particles, the ones we can only see at a molecular level? Are they signficant?

EVERY piece of consecrated Host significant. This is why there are so many people advocating the use of every measure to assure the hosts get from the ciborium to our mouths without pieces falling to the wayside.

The use of patens to catch any piece that may fall as the priest offers communicants a host.

Taking the host by mouth only so that we do not unknowingly scatter pieces from our hands.

The use of licit hosts and host recipies to make sure the host is unlevened and less likely to crumble.

And proper instruction to the parishoners on how Christ is fully present in the consecrated host. I think it was Chesterson who said “if people truly believed that Jesus Christ was fully present in the Host, they would fall to their knees.” That kind of humility automatically shows respect and reverence that would avoid any kind of mishandling of the crumbs of consecrated hosts.

If you look close, you may note that priests are usually VERY carefull to break the large host over the chalice or ciborim so as to catch any particles that should fall. Those particles would then be brushed into the chalice and consumed with the blood by the priest as he cleaned off the alter at the end of Mass.

Your question is a good one, as it offers the reality and the completeness of Christ’s presence at each Mass. But as one of the other posters also noted, it should also be noted that we are imperfect and God knows that.

We must never intend to disrespect the Body by mishandling it or intentionally misusing it. And we should show reverence to His Presence.

There is a term called scrupulosity which refers to the unhealthy obsession of one’s own sin’s- enough to distract the person from living normally as one of the Faithful. Try not to let a similar thing happen with the Host. Please explore the philosophy of substance and transubstantiation as far as you wish- but do not get caught up so far in the “science” or “method” that it distracts you from the meaning.

 

[youthcrusader]

tee_eff_em:

And as for microscopic/molecular particles: I am told that when the sacred species cease to be recognized (that is: when they no longer look like bread and wine), the sacramental presence of our Lord ends. I’ve never recognized an individual molecule of bread, so I wouldn’t worry about it.

tee

I’ve heard something similar to this. I once read that the sacramental presence is exists only while the accidents of the bread and wine exist. Therefore, once our bodies digest the Host, the accidents no longer exist, and therefore, Christ’s presence ceases. That leaves me with two questions: one, does the substance of the bread return after Christ’s substance ceases, and two, don’t accidents also refer to size, shape, dimension, etc., and that although we can’t see the particles, they still are in fact particles of the Host?

 

[Deacon_Ed]

tee_eff_em:

And as for microscopic/molecular particles: I am told that when the sacred species cease to be recognized (that is: when they no longer look like bread and wine), the sacramental presence of our Lord ends. I’ve never recognized an individual molecule of bread, so I wouldn’t worry about it.

This is absolutely correct! We are as careful as we can be with the particles (especially in the East) but we also know that we can’t track every single particle. If it no longer has the appearace of bread it is also no longer the Precious Body.

Deacon Ed

 

[MaryAgnes]

youthcrusader:

I’ve heard something similar to this. I once read that the sacramental presence is exists only while the accidents of the bread and wine exist. Therefore, once our bodies digest the Host, the accidents no longer exist, and therefore, Christ’s presence ceases. That leaves me with two questions: one, does the substance of the bread return after Christ’s substance ceases, and two, don’t accidents also refer to size, shape, dimension, etc., and that although we can’t see the particles, they still are in fact particles of the Host?

One can spend a lot of time examining the philosophical language of substance and accidents (Aquinas did!) … However, it does not serve us to become overly scrupulous at the risk of missing the real meaning of what a true gift the Eucharist is.

 

[mhansen]

MaryAgnes:

Surely Jesus knew what would happen. I wonder, then, if we sometimes get more caught up in things that did not even concern our Lord … and ignore those things that did concern him (like the poor, the marginalized, the alien, etc.) … Just a thought.

…And a good one at that!

 

[The_Augustinian]

youthcrusader:

That leaves me with two questions: one, does the substance of the bread return after Christ’s substance ceases, and two, don’t accidents also refer to size, shape, dimension, etc., and that although we can’t see the particles, they still are in fact particles of the Host?

1. Since the accidents of bread are gone then the substance would not “return” so to speak.
2. True, but a sacrament is supposed to be a *visible *sign of inward grace. Thus, if the Host is not recognizably bread, and especially broken down to molecular level, then I don’t think Christ is present. To take another example, let’s think of the Sacrament of Baptism. In the air, there are some water molecules, especially if it’s a very humid area such as where I’m living. Would it be a true baptism, then, if I were to just fan some air over a person’s head saying the formula for baptism? Of course not! To paraphrase St. Cyprian, I would just be getting them cool. The same also applies to the sacramental presence of Our Lord in the eucharistic host. So, I would not worry about the tiny particles we cannot see. Nevertheless, it is extremely important to exercise care in distributing the Eucharist and disposing of any particles in a respectful manner.

 

[youthcrusader]

2. True, but a sacrament is supposed to be a *visible *sign of inward grace. Thus, if the Host is not recognizably bread, and especially broken down to molecular level, then I don’t think Christ is present. To take another example, let’s think of the Sacrament of Baptism. In the air, there are some water molecules, especially if it’s a very humid area such as where I’m living. Would it be a true baptism, then, if I were to just fan some air over a person’s head saying the formula for baptism? Of course not! To paraphrase St. Cyprian, I would just be getting them cool. The same also applies to the sacramental presence of Our Lord in the eucharistic host. So, I would not worry about the tiny particles we cannot see. Nevertheless, it is extremely important to exercise care in distributing the Eucharist and disposing of any particles in a respectful manner.

Oh, I see. That’s a good point; we’re definitely not baptized by the water vapor in the air. But it still bugs me about those really small particles. What if one person can see it, but no one else can. Does it mean that Christ is present only to the person who can see the particle?

 

[youthcrusader]

1. Since the accidents of bread are gone then the substance would not “return” so to speak.

But then does that bread no longer have a substance? Is it just non-existent nothing with the appearance of bread?

 

[Verbum_Caro]

1. Since the accidents of bread are gone then the substance would not “return” so to speak.

I concur. The substance of bread and wine never “return”.

But what, then, is happening when a consecrated host turns moldy? Certainly the substance of Our Lord isn’t affected, and in fact the Real Presence of Christ ceases. So where did the mold come from?

Ah, see St. Thomas: newadvent.org/summa/407705.htm on this issue!

I offer this for you Youthcrusader, to show you that great thought has been given to the truth of the Eucharist. Have patience and faith! Keep exploring the theology, keep reading, keep praying.

VC

 

[youthcrusader]

Verbum Caro:

I concur. The substance of bread and wine never “return”.

But what, then, is happening when a consecrated host turns moldy? Certainly the substance of Our Lord isn’t affected, and in fact the Real Presence of Christ ceases. So where did the mold come from?

Ah, see St. Thomas: newadvent.org/summa/407705.htm on this issue!

I offer this for you Youthcrusader, to show you that great thought has been given to the truth of the Eucharist. Have patience and faith! Keep exploring the theology, keep reading, keep praying.

VC

I greatly appreciate your efforts, but I’m not sure I understand what St. Thomas is saying: his language and philosophy are very complex to the average teenager

I think he’s saying that the substance of Christ ceases when the Host corrupts, and that it isn’t the Host’s substance (which is Christ) to cause the corruption; rather, the accidents of bread still retain some properties and power, such as mold growth. But I’m still not sure whether the substance of bread returns; if Christ’s substance ceases, is the Host just the substance of “nothing” with the appearance of bread?

 

[flamingsword]

Oh, I see. That’s a good point; we’re definitely not baptized by the water vapor in the air. But it still bugs me about those really small particles. What if one person can see it, but no one else can. Does it mean that Christ is present only to the person who can see the particle?

That is a good question. I know a monk at an abbey with a baslica Church. As such it is frequently visited by pilgrims. After Mass he walks around and every so often he will stoop down, lick his finger touch the ground, and then lick his finger again. Since he would never tell me what he was doing, another monk from the abbey told me that the monk in question sees glowing rays surrounding even the smallest particles of the host and he goes around ensuring that they do not get trampled. Like I said he won’t talk about this gift, but it has made me a lot more conscious of any remaining particles I may have on my fingure tips when I receive on the hand.

 

[JimG]

youthcrusader:

But then does that bread no longer have a substance? Is it just non-existent nothing with the appearance of bread?

After the consecration, the bread and wine are gone. Only the appearances remain. And the appearances do not inhere in any substance.

The appearances reamain but they do not inhere in either Jesus or in the bread.

 

[batteddy]

And as for microscopic/molecular particles: I am told that when the sacred species cease to be recognized (that is: when they no longer look like bread and wine), the sacramental presence of our Lord ends. I’ve never recognized an individual molecule of bread, so I wouldn’t worry about it.

This is true. If a particle is so small that we cannot call it “bread” or “wine” to our senses any more…then the Real Presence is gone.

But we must be very careful about crumbs that are still clearly crumbs of bread. Or droplets that are still clearly drops of wine.

The substance of bread and wine never “return” because they are replaced by a new substance: that of digestive muck.

But its not like after the Real Presence ends, there are still accidents inhering in no subject floating around.

The bread and wine are gone, and remain Jesus as long as they have the accidents of bread and wine…but when those accidents change in such a way that they no longer appear to be bread and wine…Jesus leaves and the new accidents inhere again in their natural subject; that is, they return to being whatever they have become (digestive muck, dissolved in water, ashes…however they have been destroyed).

But bread and wine specifically never come back, because as long as the accidents are of bread and wine, the substance is Jesus. But when the accidents are digested, the substance simply becomes digestables too.