Christ is the Father?

[UnityofTrinity]

in Malachi 2:10, it was written “'Is there not one Father of us all? Did not one God create us? Why, then, do we break faith with one another, profaning the covenant of our ancestors?”, yet in Isaiah 9:5, it was written: “For a son has been born for us, a son has been given to us, and dominion has been laid on his shoulders; and this is the name he has been given, ‘Wonder-Counsellor, Mighty-God, Eternal-Father, Prince-of-Peace’”, since there is only one Father, and that the Son is different than the Father, how would one explains this passage? My friend, a oneness Pentecostal is asking me and I need an answer

 

[WesleyF]

"For this reason I bow my knees before the Father, from whom every family (fatherhood in Greek) in heaven and on earth is named " (Eph 3:15).

God the Father is the source of all fatherhood. It is in that sense that we can understand Malachi 2:10. That does not mean that there cannot be other fathers. So, for example, Paul says,

“For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel” (1 Cor 4:15).

Jesus is also a father. He is the new Adam (1 Cor 15:45). Since he is the new Adam, he is also our father, for he has given us new birth in the Spirit. The source of Christ’s fatherhood is in God the Father.

Thus, Jesus is indeed the everlasting Father spoken of in Isaiah 9:6, because he has fathered us, being the new Adam.

 

[UnityofTrinity]

"For this reason I bow my knees before the Father, from whom every family (fatherhood in Greek) in heaven and on earth is named " (Eph 3:15).

God the Father is the source of all fatherhood. It is in that sense that we can understand Malachi 2:10. That does not mean that there cannot be other fathers. So, for example, Paul says,

“For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel” (1 Cor 4:15).

Jesus is also a father. He is the new Adam (1 Cor 15:45). Since he is the new Adam, he is also our father, for he has given us new birth in the Spirit. The source of Christ’s fatherhood is in God the Father.

Thus, Jesus is indeed the everlasting Father spoken of in Isaiah 9:6, because he has fathered us, being the new Adam.

great explanation

 

[EricFilmer]

in Malachi 2:10, it was written “'Is there not one Father of us all? Did not one God create us? Why, then, do we break faith with one another, profaning the covenant of our ancestors?”, yet in Isaiah 9:5, it was written: “For a son has been born for us, a son has been given to us, and dominion has been laid on his shoulders; and this is the name he has been given, ‘Wonder-Counsellor, Mighty-God, Eternal-Father, Prince-of-Peace’”, since there is only one Father, and that the Son is different than the Father, how would one explains this passage? My friend, a oneness Pentecostal is asking me and I need an answer

The Oneness Pentecostals argue that there is only one divine person, and that Christ is the Father. The argument here is that there is only one Father, and because this prophecy of Jesus gives him the name of “Eternal Father” he must actually be God the Father. Your friend claims that there cannot be two distinct persons bearing the heavenly name of Father.

But this passage from Isaiah 9:5 (and its comparison with Malachi 2:10) does not actually prove his point. Consider the below passage from a Jewish Bible commentary:

Isaiah 9:5 “The Mighty God…ruler”: This long sentence is the throne name of the royal child. Semitic names often consists of sentences that describe God; thus the name of Isaiah in Hebrew means “The LORD saves”; "Hezekiah, “The LORD strengthens”; in Akkadian, the name of the Babylonian king Merodach-baladan (Isa. 39:1) means “the god Marduk has provided an heir.” These names do not describe that person who holds them but the god whom the parents worship. Similarly, the name given to the child in this v. does not describe the child or attribute divinity to him, contrary to the classical Christian readings of this messianic verse.
-Adele Berlin and Marc Zvi Brettler, eds., The Jewish Study Bible (Oxford University Press, Inc.: New York, 2004), 802.

Obviously, as Christians we would disagree with that last line of the commentary. But the point is that, according to the nature of Semitic names, the Messiah has the title of “Eternal Father” and is still considered a distinct person from God the Father. The Jews have read Isaiah and Malachi for several centuries, and they never believed that the passages in question indicated that the Messiah would actually be God the Father (as opposed to a person distinct from the Father).

From the aspect of Trinitarian theology, the verses in question simply illustrate the mystery of the Holy Trinity, that Jesus is distinct from the Father and, at the same time, is the Father.

 

[sapphire778]

Interesting thread…I was an ex-oneness pentecostal myself.
And there was once a UPCI pastor (I’m from Singapore) who came over to preach, and he laughed at the Trinitarian belief and said that how could the Father, Son and HS are be “fathers”.

Because the Son is the “Everlasting Father”, and He is also conceived (or “fathered”) by the Holy Spirit.

And the whole congregation, including me, laughed along.

Thinking back, I think I was just brainwashed then.
Apostolic Pentecostals try too hard to justify the Oneness Doctrine, stating that while Jesus was on earth and when he “prayed”, He was actually giving us an example of prayer to God/or that the Son (flesh of Jesus) is praying to the Father (i.e Divinity of Jesus, amongst many others.They propose that Trinity was false doctrine that originated from Tertullian (at least from my Bible Study notes it says so)

Believe me, these people really think they hold THE truth and revelation of Christianity, and that all trinitarians are so badly deceived that they become very convicted to spread the “truth” about the nature of the Godhead amongst other heretical doctrines. Can’t blame them, but I think it will be good for to invite them to start studying the Trinitarian stand FOR THEMSELVES, without biasness and with an open-mind, and try to refute each claim for the Trinity with their own understanding of the Oneness. (You can contact me for a MSdocument refuting their stand if you’re interested, i think it’s good)

A denouncing of the Oneness doctrine is enough for their whole belief system to fall apart, and I speak strictly from personal experiences