Christ Resurrected On Saturday Morning

[Samie]

by gosh you are right!
one amateur playing games with Greek has proven 2000 years unbroken Christian tradition based on eye witness accounts is wrong. good work, dude

Hi, puzzleannie;

For sure, you alone know the tenor of your post. But this much I can say: Copernicus got excommunicated when presenting evidence against the age-long-held belief in the geocentricity of our solar system. The Savior was awarded with Crucifixion when He went against the belief of the times.

Thank you, annie.

In Christ Our Risen Savior,
Samie

 

[ConstantineTG]

Hi, puzzleannie;

For sure, you alone know the tenor of your post. But this much I can say: Copernicus got excommunicated when presenting evidence against the age-long-held belief in the geocentricity of our solar system. The Savior was awarded with Crucifixion when He went against the belief of the times.

Thank you, annie.

In Christ Our Risen Savior,
Samie

What belief did Jesus “go against”? Weren’t the Jews waiting for a Messiah?

 

[pablope]

Hi, pablope;

Thank you for venturing on a reply. Sadly, as with others, you failed to address the main issue on the Greek ‘proi prote sabbatou’ of Mark 16:9. Your mentioning of EGW is I think out of place. I never mentioned her in my OP; in fact, my position does not reflect hers.

In Christ Our Risen Lord,
Samie

Hello…Samie…I did not see a need to address it…

Let me repost Mark 16…And when the Sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of James, and Salome bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint Him.

9Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, He appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom He had cast seven devils

Verse 1 says after the Sabbath…verse 9 says early the first day of the week…seems very clear to anybody (except maybe you)…Jesus rose on the first day of the week, after the Sabbath.

You can argue it to death…but as I stated, we have 2000 years of Apostolic tradition that has been passed on down to us…and know when Christ rose.

Mark was a disciple of Peter…and put into writing what Peter taught…which is now the Gospel of Mark.

And the Didache…Chapter 14. Christian Assembly on the Lord’s Day. But every Lord’s day gather yourselves together, and break bread, and give thanksgiving after having confessed your transgressions, that your sacrifice may be pure. But let no one who is at odds with his fellow come together with you, until they be reconciled, that your sacrifice may not be profaned. For this is that which was spoken by the Lord: “In every place and time offer to me a pure sacrifice; for I am a great King, says the Lord, and my name is wonderful among the nations.”

So my question to you…which one would you believe…the eyewitness of Peter and put down in writing by Mark?

Or the testimony of an EGW saying the apostles were wrong on this matter? And why would God wait for 1800 years to pass by before correcting this?

Your mentioning of EGW is I think out of place. I never mentioned her in my OP; in fact, my position does not reflect hers.

So, why is it out of place? You are SDA…so you believe everything she said, correct?

 

[anodos]

I believe silence is NEVER an evidence for or against an issue.

Thanks for the suggestion. But could you help me out in the search? You could perhaps readily come across such and post the link right away.

Thank you, jmcrae.

But the early church was not silent on the issue of whether Jesus was resurrected on a Saturday or a Sunday. It is one of the main reasons Sunday is called the Lord’s Day, from the earliest Christian sources. I posted a link to a searchable website for the writings of the Fathers of the Church, but I linked it to part of the sentence, so it might have been missed. I did not post anything specific, but suggested a search for “Sabbath” or “Lord’s Day” within the database; unfortunately I haven’t found out how to search only the Fathers, so you will also get results from the Catholic Encyclopedia (which is also an interesting read, though its almost 100 years old now). If I have time today, if someone else hasn’t done it, I might try to find the quotes.
Here is the site again:
newadvent.org/fathers/

 

[MaryandJoseph]

I ponder on this question sometimes…

Does it really matter WHICH day of the modern calandar we celebrate and worship our Lord and Saviour?

Work six (6) days and totally give the seventh (7th) to God and rest within Him:thumbsup:

I wonder if God really cares Which day we worship just as long as we DO worship

 

[Samie]

What belief did Jesus “go against”? Weren’t the Jews waiting for a Messiah?

The belief regarding their understanding about God.
**
John 10:31-33, 36**

31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.

32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?

33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for
blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

John 19:7 The Jews answered him, We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God.

 

[Samie]

Hello…Samie…I did not see a need to address it…

I won’t force you…

Let me repost Mark 16…And when the Sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of James, and Salome bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint Him.

9Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, He appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom He had cast seven devils

Verse 1 says after the Sabbath…verse 9 says early the first day of the week…seems very clear to anybody (except maybe you)…Jesus rose on the first day of the week, after the Sabbath.

You can argue it to death…but as I stated, we have 2000 years of Apostolic tradition that has been passed on down to us…and know when Christ rose.

Mark was a disciple of Peter…and put into writing what Peter taught…which is now the Gospel of Mark.

I thought you said you saw no need to address the issue? And Yes, Mark wrote the Gospel of Mark. You would agree with me if I say he wrote it in Greek, wouldn’t you? And he wrote Christ rose on ‘proi prote sabbatou’, didn’t he?

So my question to you…which one would you believe…the eyewitness of Peter and put down in writing by Mark?

Or the testimony of an EGW saying the apostles were wrong on this matter? And why would God wait for 1800 years to pass by before correcting this?

My opening post tells you what I believe in and that is what was originally written by Mark in Greek and not as translated by the Sunday-keeping translators of the Bible.

So, why is it out of place? You are SDA…so you believe everything she said, correct?

Well perhaps I am a bit different from you. It appears to me you seemed, as gleaned from your line of reasoning, to have swallowed everything - hook, line and sinker - about what you were taught.

 

[Samie]

I ponder on this question sometimes…

Does it really matter WHICH day of the modern calandar we celebrate and worship our Lord and Saviour?

Work six (6) days and totally give the seventh (7th) to God and rest within Him:thumbsup:

I wonder if God really cares Which day we worship just as long as we DO worship

As the one who started this thread, I could be charged of being off-topic if I cater to your question. But oh how I like to address it. Could you provide me with an e-mail address where I could send my reply?

 

[anodos]

I ponder on this question sometimes…

Does it really matter WHICH day of the modern calandar we celebrate and worship our Lord and Saviour?

Work six (6) days and totally give the seventh (7th) to God and rest within Him:thumbsup:

I wonder if God really cares Which day we worship just as long as we DO worship

Yes, it matters; its the first precept of the Catholic Church.

CCC 2042: The first precept (“You shall attend Mass on Sundays and holy days of obligation and rest from servile labor”) requires the faithful to sanctify the day commemorating the Resurrection of the Lord as well as the principal liturgical feasts honoring the mysteries of the Lord, the Blessed Virgin Mary, and the saints; in the first place, by participating in the Eucharistic celebration, in which the Christian community is gathered, and by resting from those works and activities which could impede such a sanctification of these days.

 

[TOME]

Samie,
I don’t know Greek so I am going to be forced to ask questions rather than make statements (for the most part).

First, the translation I am using is the RSV. Mark 16:1 is translated as “When the sabbath was over”. What is the relationship between this verse and the later verse you are using?

My second question is could the events you are talking about happen on a Saturday? Wasn’t there a ban on doing the activites Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome were recorded doing?

 

[Incomplete]

Hi, puzzleannie;

For sure, you alone know the tenor of your post. But this much I can say: Copernicus got excommunicated when presenting evidence against the age-long-held belief in the geocentricity of our solar system.

Thank you, annie.

In Christ Our Risen Savior,
Samie

Well, except Copernicus was never excommunicated.

In fact, read his introduction to his great work, De Revolutionibus, and see who he gives credit to for publishing it. In fact, you can read it and letters from a couple of his supporters at the link I’ll provide. And here is part of his dedication, so you can see who they were if you don’t want to follow the link.

He dedicated it to the Pope, in fact.

[But while I hesitated (*publishing this work

) for a long time and even resisted, my friends drew me back. Foremost among them was the cardinal of Capua, Nicholas Schönberg, renowned in every field of learning. Next to him was a man who loves me dearly, Tiedemann Giese, bishop of Chelmno, a close student of sacred letters as well as of all good literature. For he repeatedly encouraged me and, sometimes adding reproaches, urgently requested me to publish this volume and finally permit it to appear after being buried among my papers and lying concealed not merely until the ninth year but by now the fourth period of nine years.

Anyway, here’s the link.

webexhibits.org/calendars/year-text-Copernicus.html

Note the letters of support from the Bishop and the Cardinal.

Also note that Pope Leo X (the Pope before this was published) consulted with Copernicus to see if this information would be useful in the formation of a more accurate calendar. And Pope Gregory actually did use his information to develop one.

Were there religious folks against Copernicus? Certainly. For example, there’s this:

“There is talk of a new astrologer who wants to prove that the earth moves and goes around instead of the sky, the sun, the moon, just as if somebody were moving in a carriage or ship might hold that he was sitting still and at rest while the earth and the trees walked and moved. But that is how things are nowadays: when a man wishes to be clever he must needs invent something special, and the way he does it must needs be the best! The fool wants to turn the whole art of astronomy upside-down. However, as Holy Scripture tells us, so did Joshua bid the sun to stand still and not the earth.”

It comes from Luther’s Tablebook.

So what does this have to do with your contention about Sabbath? Well, it’s this.

You claim to know about Copernicus, but you only know what you have heard, and that is in error. I can easily prove you wrong, just by looking at his dedication. And by searching for information on whether or not he was excommunicated, all you will find is that he was NOT excommunicated. It’s an easy search. You will find plenty of speculation that he kept quiet because of fears of excommunication, but that is all just theory. In reality, he obviously kept in touch with high-ranking members of the Church, and nobody can come up with a writing of his to prove the “theory” that he was afraid of the Church. More likely he was afraid of the others who criticized him. (Even some scientists were not supportive.)

So, not knowing Greek, why should I trust you on your translation? Why should I trust you on the dates you claim that Jesus was crucified and rose on? Why should I trust that you didn’t get that information in the same kind of place you got your info on Copernicus?

No, I will trust that the early Christian fathers, who were not discussing what the New Testament interpretation really meant because there was no canon yet, I will trust that they understood the language and what all of it meant.

I’m thinking you may have meant Galileo, in which case you are still wrong. He was excommunicated, but not for any evidence he presented. It’s much, much more complicated than that, but he had the support of the Church, even the support of Popes, until he blew it himself.

 

[eddadonkey]

+JMJ+

Hi, puzzleannie;

For sure, you alone know the tenor of your post. But this much I can say: Copernicus got excommunicated when presenting evidence against the age-long-held belief in the geocentricity of our solar system. The Savior was awarded with Crucifixion when He went against the belief of the times.

Thank you, annie.

In Christ Our Risen Savior,
Samie

 

[dogknox]

Hi, jmcrae;

Thanks. I share with you the same observation of having different sabbaths in that Paschal week; although of course we differ on their specific weekdays of occurrence. This is why I started this thread.

In Christ Our Risen Savior,
Samie

Matthew 17:23
They will kill him, and on the third day he will be raised to life.” And the disciples were filled with grief.

1 Corinthians 15:4
that he was buried, that he was raised **on the third **day according to the Scriptures,

Not after three days but “ON the third day!”
He died the day before the Sabbath… The Sabbath was a High Sabbath because it was a feast day!
Sabbath is Saturday!
Jesus died the day before the Sabbath… Friday!
Jesus roseON the third Day… 1) Friday, Died 2) Sabbath, Saturday 3)** ON **the third day… Sunday!

 

[meltzerboy]

There is only one verse in Scriptures that explicitly say when Christ rose from the grave. All other resurrection verses only tell of the coming of some of the Lord’s followers to the sepulcher only to find an already empty tomb. That empty tomb was proof He has indeed risen. But when? Only Mark 16:9 says when: on ‘proi prote sabbatou’

The Greek phrase ‘proi prote sabbatou’ is better rendered ‘early morning of the chief sabbath’ rather than the generally accepted ‘early morning of the first day of the week’. It is worth noting that the Greek makes no mention of ‘day’(hemera) nor of ‘week’(hebdomas). In fact, in the Septuagint, ‘sabbatou’ (genitive, singular) always refer to ‘sabbath’ (a single day) and NEVER to ‘week’ (7 days). But the Sunday-keeping Bible translators seemed to have put in a tint of doctrinal bias in their rendering of the phrase in order to give a semblance of Scriptural authority to their Sunday-keeping.

But why ‘chief sabbath’? Because in that paschal week, other than the weekly sabbath, there also occurred a ceremonial sabbath. Between the weekly sabbath which the Lord calls ‘my sabbath’ and a ceremonial sabbath referred to by the Lord as ‘your sabbath’ the chief is undoubtedly the weekly sabbath, Saturday.

That ceremonial sabbath was the sabbath that had passed when the women followers of the Lord bought spices (Mk 16:1) which they prepared before they rested the weekly sabbath (Lk 23:56). Since preparation of the spices and ointments was before the weekly sabbath, it was done Friday. Also, since the ceremonial sabbath preceded the preparation of spices, having only bought the spices after this ceremonial sabbath had passed, it was therefore Thursday. This ceremonial sabbath occurred after preparation of Passover the day before, which was, of course, Wednesday.

It was preparation of Passover when Christ was crucified (John 19:14ff), and therefore Wednesday. 3 days and 3 nights later, as the Lord Himself specified (Mt 12:40), He rose from the grave ‘proi prote sabbatou’ = ‘early morning of the chief sabbath’.

daytime Wednesday = day 1; … nighttime Wednesday = night 1
daytime Thursday = day 2; … nighttime Thursday = night 2
daytime Friday = day 3; … nighttime Friday (which covers the whole night until before sunrise Saturday) = night 3

In contrast, the Roman Catholic doctrine of Friday crucifixion and early Sunday morning resurrection can only account for 2 days and 2 nights.

Honest Sunday-keepers who keep Sunday believing it was His resurrection day would do well to become Sabbath-keepers upon knowing the Lord rose from the grave Saturday.

From a Jewish viewpoint, would Jesus rise on the Sabbath, the day of rest? The Sabbath is so holy that even when the soul is in Purgatory, according to Jewish belief, there is no cleansing or purification that takes place on the Sabbath.

 

[promethius]

There is only one verse in Scriptures that explicitly say when Christ rose from the grave. All other resurrection verses only tell of the coming of some of the Lord’s followers to the sepulcher only to find an already empty tomb. That empty tomb was proof He has indeed risen. But when? Only Mark 16:9 says when: on ‘proi prote sabbatou’

The Greek phrase ‘proi prote sabbatou’ is better rendered ‘early morning of the chief sabbath’ rather than the generally accepted ‘early morning of the first day of the week’. It is worth noting that the Greek makes no mention of ‘day’(hemera) nor of ‘week’(hebdomas). In fact, in the Septuagint, ‘sabbatou’ (genitive, singular) always refer to ‘sabbath’ (a single day) and NEVER to ‘week’ (7 days). But the Sunday-keeping Bible translators seemed to have put in a tint of doctrinal bias in their rendering of the phrase in order to give a semblance of Scriptural authority to their Sunday-keeping.

But why ‘chief sabbath’? Because in that paschal week, other than the weekly sabbath, there also occurred a ceremonial sabbath. Between the weekly sabbath which the Lord calls ‘my sabbath’ and a ceremonial sabbath referred to by the Lord as ‘your sabbath’ the chief is undoubtedly the weekly sabbath, Saturday.

That ceremonial sabbath was the sabbath that had passed when the women followers of the Lord bought spices (Mk 16:1) which they prepared before they rested the weekly sabbath (Lk 23:56). Since preparation of the spices and ointments was before the weekly sabbath, it was done Friday. Also, since the ceremonial sabbath preceded the preparation of spices, having only bought the spices after this ceremonial sabbath had passed, it was therefore Thursday. This ceremonial sabbath occurred after preparation of Passover the day before, which was, of course, Wednesday.

It was preparation of Passover when Christ was crucified (John 19:14ff), and therefore Wednesday. 3 days and 3 nights later, as the Lord Himself specified (Mt 12:40), He rose from the grave ‘proi prote sabbatou’ = ‘early morning of the chief sabbath’.

daytime Wednesday = day 1; … nighttime Wednesday = night 1
daytime Thursday = day 2; … nighttime Thursday = night 2
daytime Friday = day 3; … nighttime Friday (which covers the whole night until before sunrise Saturday) = night 3

In contrast, the Roman Catholic doctrine of Friday crucifixion and early Sunday morning resurrection can only account for 2 days and 2 nights.

Honest Sunday-keepers who keep Sunday believing it was His resurrection day would do well to become Sabbath-keepers upon knowing the Lord rose from the grave Saturday.

Well, let’s see, this teaching came from the clearly defunct prophet Ellen Gould White, did it not? The one who erroneously claimed as revelation from GOD that the church moved the sabbath to Sunday when Constantine came to power?

Hasn’t she been shown to be wrong on this subject enough that SDAs can finally reject her false prophecy and return to Christianity?

At any rate, to counter your arguement, I will defer to greek speaking authorities rather than biased translation based on Gould White’s faulty works:

**
vine's dictionary:
4413,protos
the superlative degree of pro, “before,” is used (I) “of time or place,” (a) as a noun, e.g., Luke 14:18; Rev. 1:17; opposite to “the last,” in the neuter plural, Matt. 12:45; Luke 11:26; 2Pet. 2:20; in the neuter singular, opposite to “the second,” Heb. 10:9; in 1 Cor. 15:3, en protois, lit., “in the first (things, or matters)” denotes “first of all;” (porkbun.com | parked domain as an adjective, e.g., Mark 16:9, used with “day” understood, lit.,“the first (day) of (i.e., after) the Sabbath,” in which phrase the “of” is objective, not including the Sabbath, but following it (cp. B, No. 3); in John 20:4,8; Rom. 10:19, e.g., equivalent to an English adverb; in John 1:15, lit., “first of me,” i.e.,“before me” (of superiority); (II) “of rank or dignity,” see CHIEF, Cp. B, Nos. 3 and 4.**

There you have it: PROPER translation which explains that the objective use of “of” in the construct denotes that the statement, correctly translated LITERALLY would be “early on the first day AFTER the sabbath”…

As to the assertion that Christ died on WEDNESDAY and rose on Saturday, you should understand something: SDAs are faux Jews. They interpret scripture with a modern American understanding of phrases. In Judaism, if one rested in the Tomb during a portion of a day, that counts as a day. Dying Wednesday and rising Saturday would be FOUR days in Jewish timekeeping. Dying Friday and rising early Sunday? Three days in Jewish timekeeping.

Again, this is another area where the false prophet Ellen Gould White messed up… she knew nothing about Judaism other than a few rumors, and she formulated her teachings around her false understanding of Jewish custom.

Come out of the SDA, Sammie, you deserve better than false prophecy to guide you to God.

 

[trebiasgreg]

I don’t understand why one get confused to a single verse of the Bible when a lot of verses points to the answer.

 

[ConstantineTG]

The belief regarding their understanding about God.
**
John 10:31-33, 36**

I don’t see Jesus changing anything the Jews believed. They believe in the Messiah, the Son of God. They just didn’t believe that He was the Messiah. Its not “going against” anything.

[BIBLEDRB]Matthew 5:17[/BIBLEDRB]

 

[pablope]

I won’t force you…

I thought you said you saw no need to address the issue? And Yes, Mark wrote the Gospel of Mark. You would agree with me if I say he wrote it in Greek, wouldn’t you? And he wrote Christ rose on ‘proi prote sabbatou’, didn’t he?

 

[Samie]

Well, except Copernicus was never excommunicated.
…
I’m thinking you may have meant Galileo, in which case you are still wrong. He was excommunicated, but not for any evidence he presented…

I stand corrected on the excommunication of Copernicus in the same way you should be in the excommunication of Galileo. Galileo never was excommunicated.

 

[Samie]

Matthew 17:23
They will kill him, and on the third day he will be raised to life.” And the disciples were filled with grief.

1 Corinthians 15:4
that he was buried, that he was raised **on the third **day according to the Scriptures,

Not after three days but “ON the third day!”
He died the day before the Sabbath… The Sabbath was a High Sabbath because it was a feast day!
Sabbath is Saturday!
Jesus died the day before the Sabbath… Friday!
Jesus roseON the third Day… 1) Friday, Died 2) Sabbath, Saturday 3)** ON **the third day… Sunday!

**Matthew 12:40 **

For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly; so shall the Son of man be **three days and three nights **in the heart of the earth.

From daytime Friday to Sunday before sunrise is** 2 days and 2 nights** and does not meet the Lord’s specification of 3 days and 3 nights.

On the other hand, the Bible records the “on the third day” phrase is equivalent to “after three days”.

2 Chronicles 10:5, 12

5 And he said unto them, Come again unto me after three days. And the people departed…
12 So Jeroboam and all the people came to Rehoboam on the third day, as the king bade, saying, Come again to me on the third day.

**Mark 8:31 **

31 And he began to teach them, that the Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders, and of the chief priests, and scribes, and be killed, and **after three days **rise again.

Sunday is two days after Friday and fails the test “after three days” which is equivalent to “on the third day”.

The above verses prove the doctrine Christ was crucified Friday and resurrected Sunday is biblically untenable.