Christ Tempted, but God Cant Be tempted?

[Steven_Merten]

TOME:

I see the question about the possibility of Jesus being able to sin in a pre-begotten of God state. The answer is quite simple no. In His “Pre-Begotten” state Jesus only in His Divine Nature - The Word, The Second Person of the Trinity.

Jesus the Human didn’t exist until His miraculous conception when Mary conceived of the Holy Spirit. It was only then that Jesus’ two natures were brought into the hyperstatic union of the incarnation.

Hello TOME,

Jesus was begotten of Mary and Jesus was begotten of God.

Are you familiar with the Mass when we state that we believe in Jesus as “eternally begotten of God, light from light, true God from true God, begotton not made, One inbeing with the Father”

So do you think Jesus could sin in a pre-begotten-of-God state?

 

[TOME]

Steve: My initial reaction to your last post is to disagree with you assestment of Jesus’ two natures in union with each other. However, this could be that I just misunderstood you.

So let me clarify (if that is ever possible) my thoughts. First, when we use the word “Begotten” this always means a sharing of Natures, not the physical reality of ones sperm is the sperm that fertilizes the ovum - which is the normal natural process of the passing on or sharing of one’s Nature with one’s off spring.

Again, I must stress “Begotten” must be understood as the sharing of Natures not physical traits. This is why in the creed we pray “Eternally Begotten of the Father (not God - unless you are using an inaccurate inclusive language translation), God from God, Light from Light, True God from True God. Begotten (sharing of the Divine Nature) not made, One in Being with the Father (sharing of the Divine Nature)”.

In the creed we continue to profess that Jesus was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit, and was born of the Virgin Mary. Here is a clear profession of the Created Human person - Jesus.
In his creation Jesus received His Human Nature from his mother.
However, if something/someone is created then that person is not eternal however is immortal (that is the person has a beginning - conception - but no end)

It would be only the Human Nature of Jesus’ two natures that would have the “possibility” of sinning, which we know didn’t happened because He freely Willed to do the Father’s Will (ex. the Agony in the Garden).

 

[TOME]

Post # 22 Continued.
Therefore, as I see it if we are talking of Jesus’ Pre-Begotten state as his state before he was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit and born of the Virgin Mary, then it would be utterly impossible because Jesus existed only as the Second Person of the Trinity which is in His Divine Nature.

 

[Steven_Merten]

TOME:

Again, I must stress "Begotten" must be understood as the sharing of Natures not physical traits.

It would be only the Human Nature of Jesus’ two natures that would have the “possibility” of sinning, which we know didn’t happened because He freely Willed to do the Father’s Will (ex. the Agony in the Garden).

Hello TOME,

Do you believe that our Spiritual God exists outside of the physical time He brought into existance at creation? Time is a measure of change between matter, energy and empty space. Would you say the God exsists Spiritually in Omni-Presence to the whole of physical time.

God’s Omni-Presence to the whole of physical time is how God can reveal physical times future to the prophets, on Judgement day write names in the book of life which Spiritually exists from before physical creation, create into existance infinite physical past and infinite physical future time flowing out from the creation of Adam. Physical time has no control over our All Powerful, Omni-Present to the whole of physical time, Spiritual God.

When Jesus is eternally beggoten of God, does He not take on an, Omni-Present to the whole of physical time, Spiritual Nature? When Jesus is eternally beggotten of God does He not now Spiritually live for all eternity infinitely beyond creation to infinitely beyond the end of physical time?

The question becomes, when was Jesus eternally begotten of God into eternal life where He exists in an, Omni-Present to the whole of physical time, living eternally to all past and future physical time, Nature? A Spiritual eternal Nature where He will decend from to be incarnated as man?

Jesus Loves God

NAB PSA 2:4

He who is throned in heaven laughs; the LORD derides them; Then in anger he speaks to them; he terrifies them in his wrath: “I myself have set up my king on Zion, my holy mountain. I will proclaim the decree of the LORD: The LORD said to me, 'You are my son; this day I have begotten you. Ask of me and I will give you the nations for an inheritance and the ends of the earth for your possession. You shall rule them with an iron rod: you shall shatter them like an earthen dish.’” NAB ACT 13:32

“We ourselves announce to you the good news that what God promised our fathers he has fulfilled for us, their children, in raising up Jesus, according to what is written in the second psalm, You are my son; this day I have begotten you.” **NAB JOH 3:3 **

Jesus gave him this answer: “I solemnly assure you, no one can see the reign of God unless he is begotten from above.” “How can a man be born again once he is old?” retorted Nicodemus. “Can he return to his mother’s womb and be born over again?” Jesus replied: “I solemnly assure you, no one can enter into God’s kingdom without being begotten of water and Spirit.” NAB HEB 1:5 Messianic Enthronement.

To which of the angels did God ever say, “You are my son; today I have begotten you”? Or again, “I will be his father, and he shall be my son”? And again, when he leads his first-born into the world, he says, “Let all the angels of God worship him.”

 

[TOME]

Steven Merten:

Hello TOME,

When Jesus is eternally beggoten of God, does He not take on an, Omni-Present to the whole of physical time, Spiritual Nature?

Steve the answer to your question is simply, No. Here we are speaking of Jesus as the Second Person of the Trinity, that is Jesus in His Divine Nature.

Jesus’ Divine Nature is immutable, it cannot change, it cannot take on anything because that implies change. Again, Scripture when using the term “Begot” or “Begotten”, it is Revealing, first the Nature of the Trinity - ONE God, in three divine Persons. Therefore it is revealing the truth of Jesus’ Divine Nature. Begotten espress the sharing of the Divine Nature with the Father (Begotten not made). It does not express the paternity of the Father - that is the Son receiving His Divine Nature from the Father.Christ shares His Divine Nature, He does not inherit His Divine Nature from the Father.

Remember, we are discussing the MYSTERY of the INCARNATION, that is Jesus having Not one nature but two natures that are in Hyperstatic Union with each other.

 

[desire_the_end]

Steven Merten:

Are you denying that Jesus possessed human free-will? The most important atribute man posesses is his freedom from being controled by the will of God. Free from the will of God human obedience to the will of God is love for God. This is how one fulfills the great commandment. Did Jesus use human free will to choose to obey the Father and die on the cross, out of love for the Father and love for fellow man, or did He have no free will in the matter?

Jesus also could have not disobeyed the Father.

Perhaps Jesus did not have libertarian free will as we know it, since he could not have done otherwise.

aaronjmagnan:

Jesus is the Father

Hardly. Jesus is the second person of the Holy Trinity, but not the Father (as He is the first person of the Holy Trinity). They are totally different from one another, yet are inseperable as they share the same divine essence.

Here’s food for thought…

Does God possess one mind, or several minds working together? What does this mean for the Father/Son relationship in the Trinity? Is Christianity still monotheistic, or does this further the “mystery” of the Trinity and Incarnation?

 

[TOME]

Desire: I realize that this a tad off the subject, but an interestin question no the less.

The Trinity, as we profess, is One God in three Divine Persons.
A “Person” philosophically speaking is an individual subject possessing an Intellect and Will. The Intellect is that which knows immediatelly and is not dependent on sense knowledge. But each Person of the Trinity who participates fully in One Divine Nature has the same knowledge.Therefore, we have in the Trinity Three Persons - three individual intellects and will - that are intrinstic united by one Nature - Divine.

How’s that for really fogging things up?

Also I agree with you that Jesus could not have sinned because His Two Natures are also intrinsiclly united in the Hyperstatic Union we call the Incarnation.