paarsurrey, you have been given the answer and you ignore this. You’ve advertised to all now that you’re not here to discuss, but to spam. I gave you an answer and I am not Catholic, so your non-response doesn’t even address non-Catholics reading this.
This is your way of looking at things, not the Christian way. Christ is not about the biggest church wins.
There’s a great many questions here. God does not change his mind. If you are more lenient to your child than to when he grows up, is that changing your mind, or simply still loving him, but treating him with respect as he acquires adulthood?
Then you miss the lesson of Jesus from the cross. He preached forgiveness, even then.
Then you understand that although God did not order it, it was allowed
The fault in your argument here is to assume that all I believe about what is right is contained in the Bible.
What point are you trying to make?
Accidental post. I thought I was going somewhere, re-thought it and intended to delete then got called away. I’ll change my name to nimblefingersnot. The title of the thread suggests a comparrison between the two is being made. Their words obviously say much about who they are.What point are you trying to make?
God didn’t sanction that for Lot, but he sanctioned fighting the disbelievers (I am talking from a Christian perspective), and He didn’t balme David for having many wives, he only blamed him for Batheshba’s, even when the Bible tells that David did that, God told him blaming that if you wanted more women, I would have given you, and what is the relation between God strucking for sins and fighting the disbelievers? I don’t see any consistent answer, and the writer of the Hebrews acknowledges all these battles, and didn’t say that God did so because they were still young.
First of all, Muhammad (Peace be upon him) was clear that a child is not accounted for what he does till he reaches puberty, and Muhammad (Peace be upon him) ordered us not to kill children unless for necessity or by mistake, so Islam doesn’t say that, it is the Bible which is filled with orders of your God to kill children even the suckling.
Well, reality is against what you say, unless you have a power to protect you, you will be always persecuted, and you can’t practise your rituals, it could even happen that you’ll be massacred, for example think if Christian countries didn’t have armies to protect themselves against communists or nazis, and this will happen all over ages, every new sect or disbelieveing army gets over Christians, everyday massacres happen, one day you might not find a man worshipping God, or even if you found, you’ll find them a weak community that can’t even tell his identity, and people could not be preached, and many people will die without knowing the truth, does your God accept this? If he does, then this is yours.
Wrong, we are not ordered to lie for our faith, lie is in case of war tactics only as I explained before, or that if one is going to be killed for his faith, as many people are weak and can’t bear this, and it is even better that they don’t do so and be patient, as for Muhammad (Peace be upon him), well as I explained before these were stages, Israelites at the Pharoah can’t act as Israelites with Joshua, and at the Babylonian captivity is not like at David’s age, it is only according to circumstances.
Again, you are still going on double standards, polygamy and taking concubines is present in your Bible, and Jesus didn’t object on them. As for a person insulting me, I have the right to strike back the same as he did, but it is better for me to forgive him, because Islam again is a realistic religion, we are not in Eutobia. My God of course loves, but loves those who deserve love, and many Quran verses tell so, and we are ordered to love him, aren’t you supposed to obey your god? It seems from what you say that if you loved God and didn’t obey him, there is no problem. And if your God loves people, why will he put them in hell eternally?
Oh you mean tradition? So what about what Paul said? It seems that those who said so were after Paul, which means that you have no problem for people to give you new laws. What a religion!
I noted this. Did you have a point?
So did God ‘sanction’ it? Or are you going to say David did this against God’s will?
I agree he didn’t say this was the reason, but it’s the Christian understanding.
Didn’t stop him ‘marrying’ Aisha.
Emphasis added
Christianity spread under persecution.
Contradicting yourself again. You say you’re not allowed to lie, then give reasons for justifying doing that!
No. It’s a religion for *men * who can’t control themselves.
Where’s the challenge in doing that? Where’s the way of bettering yourself if you’re simply given ‘laws’ that allow you to do what you want anyway?
Depends on whether you think it’s us being designed to be sinful, or not.
I agree that it is. We don’t practice it, which is the point that supports we don’t consider the ‘practices’ of the OT to apply to us today
How do you know? Sola scriptura argument doesn’t wash with Orthodox
Again, no discipline. Give into your lusts - we call that ‘Satan’.
No. For you ‘deserves’ is circular; all who are loved by Al-lah deserved it. Some do good but aren’t loved by him.
We obey because the nature of obeying a loving God is to participate in love. You obey your god as you would the laws of the land - in case you get punished.
People put themselves in hell. We have a saying that the gates of hell are locked from the inside.
There’s a point there somewhere, I take it?
Great isn’t it!
We are speaking about the God of OT sanctioning fighting the disbelievers and killing them, what is the relation between what you are saying about Lot and not punishing us once for our sins, and that he ordered that the Gentiles are killed even for children and even suckling? And why didn’t your god send prophets to the gentiles? Why did he make it exclusive for the jews (God’s chosen people?
2Sa 12:8 and I gave thee thy master’s house, and thy master’s wives into thy bosom, and gave thee the house of Israel and of Judah; **and if that had been too little, I would have added unto thee such and such things. **
1Co 3:3 for ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you jealousy and strife, are ye not carnal, and do ye not walk after the manner of men?
What an honest god you are really worshipping!Again Islam is a realistic religion, it is not that hypocrite as your god who ordered to kill children with no reason, then he comes and tells us: love your enemies.
And Islam also spread under persecution in Mecca in the beginning, but what protected Christianity to continue on is the Roman and Byzantine empires and then Europe and US, I mean that there are limits for persecution, if you accept that God’s religion keeps humble and humilite, I don’t accept this, this makes me feel that Christians don’t have dignity. btw, do you mean that Christian countries shouldn’t have armies to defend themselves?
You are the one who don’t want to understand, an exclusion is not a contradiction, otherwise, we will say that Jesus is contradicting himself:
First of all, Islam doesn’t tell us to give your lusts, but in everything there are 2 extremes and a moderate, Islam is moderate, it neither tells us to give our lusts neither tell us to suppress it. Is this really a Satan, then go to your OT god as it seems that it is also from the Satan.
I am not talking about sinning, I am talking about simple rights, if someone harms you, you have a right against him, and you can either take it or forgive him, that’s mere justice, and again Islam tells us that it’s better to forgive, but at the same time, it doesn’t deprive us from our right, as for divorce, it could happen that 2 couples can’t live with each other, why forcing them on that? This will make their life hell, if you can bear it, others can’t, and this may lead any of them to commit adultery or even leave Christianity to be divorced. And here we go.
And who told you that loving God is only by doing good? Good acts are not accepted by God unless man really does that for God, and still keeps in mind that not the work which saves him, but God’s mercy. God will love him.
We obey God because of 3 things: we love him, we want his reward, we fear his punishment NOT the third one only, there must be a balance.
So you are obeying your god because you don’t want to go hell.
Take it.
Sorry, paarsurrey; But sometimes the dialogue must not continue. Sometimes it can be wasteful to just repeat ourselves. Sometimes, when we have nothing to say, it’s better to just say nothing.
You cut off the end of the quote, thereby losing the context and hence the full meaning.
The Muslim idea that Jesus somehow avoided crucifixion is not supported by the bible.
But for you ‘harm’ can be him preaching his faith. You’ve laws to prevent a Christian woman who marries a Moslem man from openly practicing her faith. You’ve got a whole history of Islamic nations that have biased laws against Christians - such as not being able to testify in a court against a Moslem, not being able to build new churches etc.
God did. We love him in return. One of the ways we love him is by doing good.
There’s another difference between us; your god won’t necessarily love you.
You fear him because even loving him you’re still possibly going to be punished.
I’m obeying God through love of him, which means that I would not want to go to hell - which is to be apart from him.
It’s part of the Moslem idea in a god that is not good. He deceives people. No wonder they *fear *him
Hi
Of course you changed the subject now but no problem, yes, we have biased laws against dhimmis, and this is not a harm, this is a reprovement of their sins, we of course can’t equate them with Muslims, and we can’t put them in superior postitions, but at the same time, we shouldn’t transgress them, i.e. we shouldn’t attack them or if something happened between a Muslim and a Christian, and the Christian had the right, we should give him his right, even if that Muslim was the Caliph himself, by the way, look at how the Israelites were ordered to treat the gentiles within them:
If I really believed in God and followed Muhammad (Peace be upon him), and made good deeds with the intention to please God, God promised to love me.
In this case my love wouldn’t have been real, it will be only words.
The same result: you don’t want to go to hell, so you obey God.
It’s not a change of subject - it’s a ‘projection’ of Islamic understanding of ‘defence’. You are encouarged by your god to appease all your base elements.
I thought you weren’t talking about sin. But hey, yes they’re Christian, they must by virtue of that be sinful!
Again you twist things; here you dress up bias as ‘rights’.
It’s not relevant. Every example of the OT you push forward is done so in light of you ignoring the fact we’re Chrisitan. We’re done with the laws of being spiritually children. We’re grown up now.
You don’t know that you’ll get to heaven. The only assured way of doing this is to become a martyr, and that can involve killing people.
There are subtle differences you’re missing.
You continue to ignore that I’m not a Catholic. Enough said.