Christian agnosticism

[fineca]

Dear all please help me with this problem. I have an old grandmother who sometimes talks about death being near and the afterlife. She is a nominal Lutheran, mentions God to me quite often in the sense that she thanks God for this or that and that this or that is not of her own merit by by God’s grace and that she guesses God has a reason for keeping her on earth still etc. she calls her faith a child’s faith - which of course is what faith should be. But there are problems with this. Since her faith is a child’s faith, faith and reality seem to be quite separated for her in the sense that she often says that absoltuely nobody on earth not even the Pope can really KNOW what the afterlife is like or if there is one. She says she doesn’t know, and of her husband who’s been dead for 28 years she speaks of “possibly being somewhere out there in some other dimension”. Now this poses a problem for me. The question is, I guess, what can we know and how can we know and what is knowledge about religious truths? It seems to me that the Catechism teaches one can know with certainty that God exists. And then if we accept the Divine Revelation, we know the things contained therein more certainly than scientific or other truths since their source is the inerrant God himself. The CCC also says that Agnosticism is a sin against Faith. But then again, if we know for certain, why is there faith at all? Why aren’t the truths revealed as plain and evident as can be for everyone? And well, can we really know anything 100%certainly? What if we’re in a matrix scenario with someone out there putting information into our brain that is really in some laboratory in another dimension, making us believe all these things and making all kinds of stories and miracles appear…perhaps we’re a part of some unknown gods’ video game or something…and what about other religions - can we be TOTALLY COMPLETELY CERTAIN that after all it’s not some other religion that is true after all? Ok, I’m convinced of Christianity, but millions of others are convinced of other religions…are we to demand and require a simple soul that never studied theology to have certain knowledge about the truths of salvation? What if what to us seems possible to be known seems only a matter of blind faith for someone else? Are they then condemned as being Agnostic?

What I thought of doing is this: write an article for her for Christmas about how the way to heaven is open through faith in Christ (which she rarely if ever mentions) and give her some historical proof of the reliability of the Gospel story/resurrection and then some quotations from early Christians from the Bible and Patristic sources that they said they were certain of the resurrection and that it’d be highly impious to doubt the revealed truths… This will show that it is indeed possible to know - but all of my above questions still remain (which I don’t intend to bring up in the text I’d write for her)

Please help, and thank you for your insights
E

 

[pumpkinbeast]

I think Descartes Meditations would be an excelent help to you in this project… he throughly, in my view, proves why we can believe that God exsists, that he is infinite and complete, and that He isn’t trying to trick us. It’s a bit of a slog to read, but it’s not that long, and really fasinating.
Good luck, and God bless!

 

[Nita]

… Since her faith is a child’s faith, faith and reality seem to be quite separated for her in the sense that she often says that absoltuely nobody on earth not even the Pope can really KNOW what the afterlife is like or if there is one. She says she doesn’t know, and of her husband who’s been dead for 28 years she speaks of “possibly being somewhere out there in some other dimension”. Now this poses a problem for me. The question is, I guess, what can we know and how can we know and what is knowledge about religious truths? It seems to me that the Catechism teaches one can know with certainty that God exists. And then if we accept the Divine Revelation, we know the things contained therein more certainly than scientific or other truths since their source is the inerrant God himself. The CCC also says that Agnosticism is a sin against Faith. But then again, if we know for certain, why is there faith at all? Why aren’t the truths revealed as plain and evident as can be for everyone? And well, can we really know anything 100%certainly? …and what about other religions - can we be TOTALLY COMPLETELY CERTAIN that after all it’s not some other religion that is true after all? Ok, I’m convinced of Christianity, but millions of others are convinced of other religions…are we to demand and require a simple soul that never studied theology to have certain knowledge about the truths of salvation? What if what to us seems possible to be known seems only a matter of blind faith for someone else? Are they then condemned as being Agnostic?
E

1. Your grandmother is right when she says nobody, not even the pope, can KNOW what afterlife is like - if by KNOW, you mean to have a full knowledge of exactly what our existence in heaven will be like. God has miraculously granted some individuals a glimpse of heaven, but that still isn’t like truly KNOWING. (Eg. you can see someone swimming and from that have an idea of what it would be like, but only when you actually get in the water and do it yourself can you say that you really KNOW what it’s like to swim.)
   As to whether there is an afterlife, we accept that there is on faith (not on a first hand knowledge; seeing, experiencing, etc.) - a faith based on the truth of God’s revelation in Scripture and Church teaching.
2. As the CCC says, we can know with certainty that God exists - by using our reasoning capacities in regard to our existence and the existence of the world. That is why believing in the existence of God does not necessarily require an act of faith - precisely because we can know for certain on our own. Faith requires us to accept as true something we cannot know for certain on our own.
3. Regarding why God didn’t make all truths so evident that we can be 100% certain:
   This is just my opinion, but if He did that, we would never need to exercise the virtue of faith. And when I pondered why He wants us to develop this virtue of faith, it occurred to me that it was precisely a lack of faith on the part of Adam and Eve that led to the first sin. They did not have faith in the truthfulness of God, in God’s love for them, in His trustworthiness, etc. And this lack of faith led to believing a lie, to pride, and finally to disobedience. I think God’s decision to require faith on our part is somehow connected to that original failure of Adam and Eve.

Another book that might be helpful for you and your grandmother is “Mere Christianity” by C.S. Lewis.

Nita

 

[fineca]

Well I’ve read Mere Christianity and even lent it to her. Myself I feel awkward when someone, especially a nominal Christian, says that we can’t know, I think that just shows a lack of faith , and my question is whether this “agnostic” approach to Christianity is sinful or not. To what extent must we know in order not to commit the sin of agnosticism? And to what extent can we believe without knowing?
Thanks
E

 

[fineca]

As to Descartes, I think the Church condemned his writings…

 

[Nita]

Well I’ve read Mere Christianity and even lent it to her. Myself I feel awkward when someone, especially a nominal Christian, says that we can’t know, I think that just shows a lack of faith , and my question is whether this “agnostic” approach to Christianity is sinful or not. To what extent must we know in order not to commit the sin of agnosticism? And to what extent can we believe without knowing?
Thanks
E

Regarding whether your grandmother’s agnosticism is sinful:
Since she is Lutheran, I would expect God will take into account what the Lutheran teaching is about it.
For a Catholic, to say about an INFALLIBLE teaching of the Church that it may or may not be so - that we can’t know for sure - that would be a sin. I think it would be a serious sin.

You ask, “To what extent must we know in order not to commit the sin of agnosticism?” I’m not sure what you mean by** know**. If you mean, how well do we have to fully understand, and then agree because it makes sense according to our reasoning - then I say we do not have to know.
An example (to make sure you understand what I mean): The Church teaches infallibly that there are three Persons in one God. I honestly can’t comprehend such a thing at all. I’ve read Aquinas’ Summa Theologica and it didn’t bring me one step closer to actually comprehending the Trinity. But, I accept and believe it as absolutely true because the Church has declared it so. This is faith. There is no agnosticism when one accepts as true an infallible teaching of the Church even if one doesn’t comprehend or understand it.

I think that kind of answers your last question also -“And to what extent can we believe without knowing?” We Catholics can believe on faith, without comprehending totally, whatever the Church teaches infallibly because we believe Jesus established the papacy precisely for that purpose - to ensure that we know the truth. It is a marvelous gift from Our Lord.

Hope this helps a little. Perhaps the biggest thing you can do is pray for your grandmother. Have you thought of having a Mass said for her?

Nita

 

[pumpkinbeast]

As to Descartes, I think the Church condemned his writings…

As far as his insistence that we needed to be removed from earthly things, I can understand why they would do that, but I didn’t realise they had… his proof of the existence of God is still great, but I didn’t read all of his meditations, actually…