Christian and Pro-war?

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Steven Merten:
Hello Vern humphrey,

In another thread, Tlaloc describes himself as an athiest with an anarchist phylosophy. Please do not be implicating he has anything to do with being Catholic. Anarchists are out to destroy religions and civil structures.
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If you’d let me go another day or so, I’d have figured all that out by myself.http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon12.gif

Another whacked-out troll, eh?http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon10.gif
 
The pope has spoken agianst the war. i don’t know why the american Catholic churhc leaders do not seem to care much what he says in the matter. It’s funny because the rest of the world’s Christians are pretty much against the war in general.

I don’t know how people can consider a war based on lies just. I work with many people in the military who do intelligence work and there is a consensus there that atttacking thsoe areas has scattered terrorists bses so they are much mroe difficult to track and predict.
 
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serendipity:
The pope has spoken agianst the war. i don’t know why the american Catholic churhc leaders do not seem to care much what he says in the matter. It’s funny because the rest of the world’s Christians are pretty much against the war in general…
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The Holy Father has not declared this an unjust war. In fact, as time goes on, and we learn more about the kind of murderous fanatics we oppose, he seems to be more willing to agree that it is justified.
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serendipity:
I don’t know how people can consider a war based on lies just. I work with many people in the military who do intelligence work and there is a consensus there that atttacking thsoe areas has scattered terrorists bses so they are much mroe difficult to track and predict.
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You have access to classified material?

Just where do you work, and with whom?
 
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serendipity:
The pope has spoken agianst the war. i don’t know why the american Catholic churhc leaders do not seem to care much what he says in the matter. It’s funny because the rest of the world’s Christians are pretty much against the war in general.

I don’t know how people can consider a war based on lies just. I work with many people in the military who do intelligence work and there is a consensus there that atttacking thsoe areas has scattered terrorists bses so they are much mroe difficult to track and predict.
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Hello serendipity,

I have never heard Pope John Paul II support any war as just. If anyone can quote where the Pope has declared any war as just, please give me a link.

Pope John Paul II condemend NATO military intervention in Kosovo when the Serbs were committing genocide, ethnic cleansing, rape, the destruction of Muslim housing and atrocities. American Bishops supported the war in Kosovo to protect the Muslims. I stand with American Bishops, and American President who opposed the opinion of Pope John Paul II.

In East Temor Catholic leaders encouraged the oppressed people to resist their oppressors. Their oppressors then started to decimate the people. Even then the Pope did not call for International troops to resolve the problem with weapons. The Bishop of East Temor sure called upon International troops to bring their weapons to protect the people. The Bishop even condemned the International community for not being their fast enough. Still the Pope remained quite. If the Pope did not see East Temor as a time for people obedient to Jesus to kill to protect the innocent, then when? Only if the Pope’s life is at stake?

You have to remember that Pope John Paul II is a pacifist (except when it comes to protecting his own life and Vatican treasures). Pope John Paul II is not about to teach us which wars are just for, obedient to Jesus people, to kill in. Nor is he going to teach us when, obedient to Jesus, Vatican guards should pull out their automatic weapons and kill to protect him. He only wants to be seen condemning war. One has to take Pope John Paul’s personal pacifist biased view (except when his life is threatened) into consideration when evaluating his evaluation of wars. What is Pope John Paul II’s teaching to obedient to Jesus, heavily armed, Vatican guards in face of a Vatican guard Church kill to protect the Pope’s life and Vatican property?

If Pope John Paul II cannot bring himself to declare Kosovo, WWII, or East Temor as just wars, then really, what reliability as just war decider does Pope John Paul II have? I would be happy if Pope John Paul II would just explain Jesus will on when to kill to protect himself and Vatican possessions.

Throwing Stones

Peace in Christ,
Steven Merten
www.ILOVEYOUGOD.com
 
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OK, I see what you guys are saying.
So let me get this straight, what most of you are saying, in a nutshell, is :
“Holocaust? Hitler is killing all the Jews? Well shame on us, we should give him our Jews too! and while we’re at it, let’s give him our supplies to help him, torturing people is hard work after all. What? Pearl Harbor has been bombed? O those Japanese, they had to use up a bomb to do that, let’s give them 2 of ours.
What do you mean theres genocide in Darfur? Well, all that killing is hard to do with only machetes, let’s give them bombs and flamethrowers, that should make it easier!
O, the twin towers have been bombed? Well, I bet if those terrorists had their own airlines with more supplies and explosives, they would learn the error of their ways!”

God is not a pacifist.
 
Croseus, you are new here so you probably don’t know, but replying to threads which are years old is actively discouraged.

Three years have gone by since the last post (well, the one before yours) and many of the person who posted in the thread haven’t visited CAF in months or even years.

The moderators encourage people to begin a new thread, rather than replying to years old threads.
 
I think before we say that God is not a pacifist , we must also say that the war is the result of human madness.
The people say -‘Cursed is he who first invented war’.
Let there be light said the God , and there wasd light , let there be blood says man , and there is the sea…

The brains are always mightier than the weapons!
And I think , right are those people who say that in war , whichever side may call itself the victor , there are no winners , but all are losers.
Very often the war is the madness of many for the gain of a few corrupted leaders who pretend as a fighters for liberty.
And often we see that revolutions and wars instead of settlement are the nursery of future revolutions and wars.

Today we also see that the world is not governed by much wisdom.
The person who kills some one is a villain and the people who kill thousands are considered as a heroes.

And the monstrous thing is that even today they do it in God’s name.
In the name of Allah , or in the name of Jesus.
They call God of battles , as it is said that God is always for the big battalions…

Some times politicians use the mob as a cattle , for the means of rising.

You know , the tragedy is like philosopher Hegel says that - what experience and history teach is this , that people and governments never have learned anything from history, or acted on principles deduced from it.

But , I would not agree that God justifies the war , its more better to say that God tolerates the war as a less evil among two choices.
For example , when Ukrainian nationalists were fighting against bolsheviks , the nationalists were fighting for their country , for their families and children who were facing the godless future and loose of their nation , culture and religion.
If the war is in the legitimate warfare , I mean …not to poison the wells…not to kill innocent civilians…
I do not really believe in peace for any price.
There are indeed the chains which are worse than bayonets!

What we can say ?
I think if the worlds politicians , would more care about order in the world and less care about rulership and riches , there would be less wars on this planet.

But generally , I would say that the war is the result of the
’ human madness ’ and ’ brains less ness ’ !
 
Very good analysis of the situation…today,yesterday and beyond…true…wars must be judged on an individual basis…WW2 was supposidly fought to combat isms…and so the national types of left wing socialism…were defeated …in a way.but FDR at Yalta handed his ole friend Uncle Joe Stalin…some 750 million christians to play with in concentration camps murdering some 40 million…I am against this present no win war…as was Korea and Nam…only the military -industrial complex wins…they make and sell the armaments,foods,clothing etc…work both sides of the fence and wave the flag when its needed…the winning radio show for 1939 was "Johnny did get his gun’ a pro-pascifist yarn about a wounded vet…you see com-sympts like Jimmy Cagney pushed isolationism when the nazis-communists signed that peace pact but when the goons invaded mother russia in 41…out came the flag and over there all over again!!!The only (fur)ture)President that called for a war and actually left his desk and fought in the front lines.>TR and it was TR who had his four sons fight in ww1.one getting killed (Quentin) and TRjunior wounded…and Archie 100% injuries…no wonder the world hates the american govt…being the worlds policeman never solves anything…amen and amen
 
There is a need for the peacemakers , but not to spread the destruction for the peace sake , which in reality for the profit sake.

But if we would ask the question , I think its from
Charles Dickens ;
-What is peace ? is it war ? no.
is it strife ? no.

But how to understand that particular peace making war ?

Some wars are the result of … I think the same Charles Dickens says … experienced , industrious , ambitious , and picturesque liers …
for whom the first importance is to brainswash the people , which are considered by those people as a human cattle.

There are tragic civil wars today around the world.
The most monstrous is before the holocaust and mass murders of their own country people , there is like a pity of the offenders
  • Don’t you know that we can destroy you now in God’s name ? its like a crocodiles wisdom to shed the tears before to devour .
Some one said that the human history becomes more a race between education and catastrophe.
There were events not long time ago in African country where initiator of military conflict was the movement which originaly started as a religious movement .

I think that the Church leaders around the world must reconsider , examine , and explore this topic more carefully , because there are a lot of bloodshed conflicts in the world which are inspired by the religion.

What David did , or what Joshua did thousands years ago , its not the same what Jesus would do today …
 
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