Christian classifications of churches?

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Contarini said:
Of course a Reformed Baptist is a subdivision of the broader Calvinist tradition.

But if we are talking about “churches,” as the OP implies, then your usage is misleading: Calvinism is in no sense a church.

Furthermore, it isn’t necessarily true that Reformed Baptists are Calvinists first and Baptists second. Many are. But some might see their Baptist identity as more important or equally important. Reformed Baptists who belong to separate Reformed Baptist denominations (yes, there are many Baptist denominations) would be more likely to fit your definition. But there are many Southern Baptists, for instance, who are theologically Reformed but worship and associate with Southern Baptists who do not share their Reformed convictions.

And this is far more true of Anglicanism. There no doubt are Anglicans who are Reformed first and Anglican second. But there are many others who are not. And again, most Reformed Anglicans worship and associate with non-Reformed Anglicans in one way or another.

Anglicans and Baptists are, admittedly, the two opposite ends of the Reformed tradition, and both groups include many (such as myself in the case of Anglicanism) who aren’t Calvinists. Which is why they are good test cases. Presbyterians, Congregationalists, and Dutch Reformed are much more straightforwardly subdivisions of the Calvinist tradition.

Edwin
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Correct. I would not say that Calvinism is a “church” in that sense but would, IMO, classify it as a denomination is a sense.
 
spedteacherita said:
Believe me, this is just the tip of the ice berg, actually! Unfortunately!

But, seriously, the majority of the Protestant churches would be comfortable with stating the Apostles Creed:

At least the important basis for our faith is that Christ was incarnate, died as a sacrifice for our sins, was resurrected 3 days later and is returning to take us Home.

The stuff we disagree on will not affect whether or not we will be in Heaven - it’s between the person and Christ as to how this will end up …
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Exactly. That’s perfect, Rita. How do you manage to put those thoughts in such a comprehensive, compact way? It took you three sentences what it would’ve taken me a small missive to say. Well done!
 
The notion that that we can be in union with those we have doctrinal disagreements with…that there can be true unity among those with doctrinal differences…those with different versions of what is and is not truth… is a false notion. 1 Cor 11:18-19 shows that divisions among Christians - the Corinthians being written to by Paul were all members of the Church… they were all Christians - cannot simply be ignored by using a contrived theological system which divides doctrines into essential vs. non-essential. Differences among Christians are serious matters that lead to some being approved by God and some not being approved by God.
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You believe that approval or non-approval by God is determined by which church one is a member of, rather than faith, love of God and conduct?
 
Contarini said:
Erich;12916376:
Paul himself, in vv. 20-34, tells us what the dividing issues were. His main message is not to receive Communion in a state of sin, but he clearly also refers to the Eucharist as the actual body and blood of Christ.

For him to say, in v. 20, “When you come together, it is not the Lord’s Supper you eat,” it should be pretty obvious that some in Corinth thought otherwise.
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Are you suggesting that Paul is condemning the idea that the Eucharist is “the Lord’s Supper”?

I don’t think that is a plausible reading of the text, at all.

Edwin
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No. In fact, I think vv. 23-26 are pretty clear on what he believes the Lord’s Supper to be.

What I think he’s saying in v. 20 is that some in Corinth didn’t think the same way (judging from the way they were eating/drinking in an unworthy manner).
 
LutheranScholar said:
Exactly. That’s perfect, Rita. How do you manage to put those thoughts in such a comprehensive, compact way? It took you three sentences what it would’ve taken me a small missive to say. Well done!
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I believe that Christ’s message is simple and when we get into the theology and apologetics that we lose that simplicity. I’m not saying that we shouldn’t debate at all but we keep His message close at hand. I’m sure that those Christians who were recently martyred did not spend their last moments arguing about theology but were hanging on to the promises He made to us.

Thanks, LS, for your kind words,

In Christ,

Rita
 
spedteacherita said:
I believe that Christ’s message is simple and when we get into the theology and apologetics that we lose that simplicity. I’m not saying that we shouldn’t debate at all but we keep His message close at hand. I’m sure that those Christians who were recently martyred did not spend their last moments arguing about theology but were hanging on to the promises He made to us.

Thanks, LS, for your kind words,

In Christ,

Rita
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You’re absolutely right, Rita… when the martyrs were busy singing hymns while lions were ripping their guts out, I think they were more involved with the promises of our Lord than with obscure theological variances. That’s a good perspective.
 
aidanbradypop said:
That 33,000+ is grossly false
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I agree, when you consider each individual “non-denominational” church (I came from one) with its own doctrines, and then every individual person who decides they don’t even need to go to church because they can study the Bible just fine on their own, I would guess that number is well over 100,000
 
Erich said:
I believe what the Church teaches in CCC 813-822.
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The Lutheran statement quoted in the next reply to yours is very clear - all Christians are included in the Church.

The CCC reference is less clear to me. Are Lutherans, Baptists, Quakers, and Orthodox included in the One Church? How about Oneness Pentacostals? Mormons?
 
Matthew_Light said:
The Lutheran statement quoted in the next reply to yours is very clear - all Christians are included in the Church.

The CCC reference is less clear to me. Are Lutherans, Baptists, Quakers, and Orthodox included in the One Church? How about Oneness Pentacostals? Mormons?
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No, Matthew they don’t include others - we are separated brethrens. Mormons would not be included as they don’t believe in the doctrine of the Trinity.
 
spedteacherita said:
No, Matthew they don’t include others - we are separated brethrens. Mormons would not be included as they don’t believe in the doctrine of the Trinity.
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Not as simple as that. All baptized Christians, and in a looser sense all human beings, are seen by the Catholic Church has having some kind of real relationship to the Church. Baptism makes you part of the Church. Baptized non-Catholics are seen as being in “imperfect communion” with the Church.

Edwin
 
Contarini said:
Not as simple as that. All baptized Christians, and in a looser sense all human beings, are seen by the Catholic Church has having some kind of real relationship to the Church. Baptism makes you part of the Church. Baptized non-Catholics are seen as being in “imperfect communion” with the Church.

Edwin
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👍 Thanks, Edwin, for clarifying what I wanted to say!!
 
Contarini said:
Baptized non-Catholics are seen as being in “imperfect communion” with the Church.
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The Catholic Church does not recognize Mormon or Jehovah’s Witnesses baptisms as valid, due to the nature of their beliefs about the Trinity… so they do not fall under the “baptized non-Catholics” umbrella.
 
Erich said:
The Catholic Church does not recognize Mormon or Jehovah’s Witnesses baptisms as valid, due to the nature of their beliefs about the Trinity… so they do not fall under the “baptized non-Catholics” umbrella.
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Sorry that I wasn’t clearer. That was my point–that the Catholic Church does not simply “exclude all non-Catholics” but takes a different stance toward baptized Trinitarians and others who may claim the Christian label.

Hence, Catholics do, in fact, recognize something like the evangelical distinction between essentials and nonessentials, and they draw the line pretty much exactly where moderate evangelicals and conservative mainliners (often the same people) draw it.

Edwin
 
I suspect there are more than 33,000 -a minority have a firm structure and hierarchy- it can be quite confusing at times-clearly many of these Churches meet the needs of many people and provide a variety of worship styles which many people find comforting

I agree that Rites do not equal denominations in the RC Church -

here in Florida there are many independent Baptist Churches -however those affiliated with the Southern Baptist convention form the largest denomination in the State

fast growing in my area is the “Calvary Chapel group” -very strong in helping people struggling with Addiction

Many people have found the Lord in those little one room Churches -they are part of the American Landscape particularly in the South

just avoid the ones that handle snakes:D
 
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