Christian Convert Kidnapped, Raped, Still Held in Egypt

[CHESTERTONRULES]

Egyptian Convert to Christianity Tortured, Raped in Egypt​

Posted GMT 12-20-2008 4:2:47​

(AINA) – Martha Samuel, an Egyptian Muslim who converted to Christianity 5 years ago, was arrested at Cairo airport on Wednesday as she and her husband and two sons (4 and 2) were leaving for Russia (AINA 12-17-2008). Her name was on the observation list of people prevented from leaving the country.

The Egypt for Christ Ministry is reporting that Martha Samuel has been subjected to sexual assault by Egyptian police officers at El-Nozha police station as well as at the National Security office in Heliopolis. She has also been beaten and tortured in an attempt to force her to return to Islam. The police have promised to release her if she returns to Islam.

Martha Samuel and her children, who are also under arrest, is to be transferred from the National Security office in Heliopolis to Al-Qanater prison after seeing the “renewal judge.” The children are not being provided with food deliberately to pressure their mother to return to Islam. Fadl Thabet, Martha’s husband, has been taken to the National Security office in Alexandria (Somoha District).

Martha Samuel, whose former name is Zainab Said Abdel-Aziz, and her family were trying to travel to Russia using a passport of her Christian name, in order to escape from the continuous persecution by the Egyptian police and her own family, who have been trying to kill her for 5 years as a result of her conversion.

aina.org/news/20081219220247.htm

 

[inJESUS]

One month ago we had a Christian Egyptian lady on tv telling about the atrocities commited to Christians and Christian converts in Egypt. May God give them the strength to endure their crosses and as Jesus said, there will be people killing you, thinking they are doing the will of God when they do not know neither the Father nor the Son.

 

[bpbasilphx]

** thinking they are doing the will of God when they do not know neither the Father nor the Son.**

**Quite true.

Mahometans (and other non-Christians) have NO knowledge of God at all, because we can NOT know the Father except through the Son. Jesus Himself said so.

Isa akbar!

Isa akbar!

ISA AKBAR!

I bear witness there is NO GOD but Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and Jesus is God Incarnate risen from the dead.**

 

[ralphinal]

I await reports of the True Muslims protesting in the streets for her release and to support her freedom of religion. I will wait for the reports of her rapists being put on trial for rape and if found guilty, punished. I await reports of moderate Muslims demanding the innocent Children and her husband be released and cared for.

After all, these actions do not represent Islam.

 

[ferdie]

I await reports of the True Muslims protesting in the streets for her release and to support her freedom of religion. I will wait for the reports of her rapists being put on trial for rape and if found guilty, punished. I await reports of moderate Muslims demanding the innocent Children and her husband be released and cared for.

After all, these actions do not represent Islam.

Who’s view of Islam is right? No muslim posters yet? No denounciations yet?

 

[Muslim_Woman]

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

Salaam/peace

… No muslim posters yet? No denounciations yet?

uhh …only 5/6 Muslims are here ; you can’t expect that we will be able to read & reply to hundreds anti - Islamic posts.

If any wrong incident takes place in any corner of the world by Muslims , it’s the Islam who is to blame; when non-Muslims do any such sins/crimes , why u don’t put blame on any specific religion/ holy books ?

HONOR KILLINGS
IN AMERICA & ABROAD

…Consider the following from the US Department of Justice, General Statistics:

Every 9 seconds, a woman is battered.

Up to 50% of all homeless women and children in the United States are fleeing domestic violence.

…Yet, there are nearly 3 times as many animal shelters in the United States as there are shelters for battered women. And lest we forget, this is happening in a country where the president has seen fit to violate his marriage vows in a most disgusting abuse of power and exploitation of a young woman.

Yet polls reveal that he still maintains support from many Americans.

Given these facts, would anyone dare argue that there is something inherently wrong with these Judeo-Christian Americans? Or with American culture as such?

No, of course not. A history of abuse and violence in families, socioeconomic factors and jealousy on the part of husbands and boyfriends are just some of the explanations given for the abuse of women, especially wives and girlfriends in America.

Walk into a women’s shelter that is not targeted to a specific ethnic or cultural group, and you will find women of all races, colors, and of course religions.

The abuse and killing of women for alleged honor crimes is not Islamic.

Nor is the abuse of women inherently as “American as apple pie”.

What do you think? Is the media coverage of honor killings in the Muslim world fair?

soundvision.com/info/misc/honor.asp

 

[ferdie]

http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif

Salaam/peace

uhh …only 5/6 Muslims are here ; you can’t expect that we will be able to read & reply to hundreds anti - Islamic posts.

If any wrong incident takes place in any corner of the world by Muslims , it’s the Islam who is to blame; when non-Muslims do any such sins/crimes , why u don’t put blame on any specific religion/ holy books ?

HONOR KILLINGS
IN AMERICA & ABROAD

…Consider the following from the US Department of Justice, General Statistics:

Every 9 seconds, a woman is battered.

Up to 50% of all homeless women and children in the United States are fleeing domestic violence.

…Yet, there are nearly 3 times as many animal shelters in the United States as there are shelters for battered women. And lest we forget, this is happening in a country where the president has seen fit to violate his marriage vows in a most disgusting abuse of power and exploitation of a young woman.

Yet polls reveal that he still maintains support from many Americans.

Given these facts, would anyone dare argue that there is something inherently wrong with these Judeo-Christian Americans? Or with American culture as such?

No, of course not. A history of abuse and violence in families, socioeconomic factors and jealousy on the part of husbands and boyfriends are just some of the explanations given for the abuse of women, especially wives and girlfriends in America.

Walk into a women’s shelter that is not targeted to a specific ethnic or cultural group, and you will find women of all races, colors, and of course religions.

The abuse and killing of women for alleged honor crimes is not Islamic.

Nor is the abuse of women inherently as “American as apple pie”.

What do you think? Is the media coverage of honor killings in the Muslim world fair?

soundvision.com/info/misc/honor.asp

Most if not all are not doing it in the name of God. Unlike the muslim extremists they do violence and justify it in the name of Allah. And by the way, how is it anti-Islamic to report that a christian convert being raped and forced back to embrace the peaceful religion of Islam? Where is the love there by your fellow muslims? Specially policemen who are supposed to be the enforcer of peace?

I think you should educate your fellow muslim extremist that what they are doing is anti-islamic, instead and accusing the west of the violence that you are mentioning.

You see these violence in the west because they are being reported, unlike in the muslim world, the left and right beating of women go unreported by your media because it is very common, it is not considered news at all. And don’t tell me it is not true, coz I am an eyewitness for these muslim violence in three different countries for almost 13 years!

 

[Jay53]

http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif

Salaam/peace

uhh …only 5/6 Muslims are here ; you can’t expect that we will be able to read & reply to hundreds anti - Islamic posts.

If any wrong incident takes place in any corner of the world by Muslims , it’s the Islam who is to blame; when non-Muslims do any such sins/crimes , why u don’t put blame on any specific religion/ holy books ?

Well when crimes are committed “in the name of Islam” then who else should be blamed? This woman is being assaulted because of her conversion.

HONOR KILLINGS
IN AMERICA & ABROAD

…Consider the following from the US Department of Justice, General Statistics:

Every 9 seconds, a woman is battered.

Up to 50% of all homeless women and children in the United States are fleeing domestic violence.

…Yet, there are nearly 3 times as many animal shelters in the United States as there are shelters for battered women. And lest we forget, this is happening in a country where the president has seen fit to violate his marriage vows in a most disgusting abuse of power and exploitation of a young woman.

Yes there are more animal shelters than battered woman shelters. That is because there aren’t as many battered women. Battered woman crimes are committed by a singular entity against another singular entity; not a government sanctioned official who is supposed to be protecting the people. When these individuals, regardless of religious orthodoxy, commit these crimes they are prosecuted according to the state/federal laws.

Yet polls reveal that he still maintains support from many Americans.

Given these facts, would anyone dare argue that there is something inherently wrong with these Judeo-Christian Americans? Or with American culture as such?

He does not have any American support right now. That was two presidents ago. He left office eight years ago. His acts were in spite of Christianity not in the name of it.

No, of course not. A history of abuse and violence in families, socioeconomic factors and jealousy on the part of husbands and boyfriends are just some of the explanations given for the abuse of women, especially wives and girlfriends in America.

Walk into a women’s shelter that is not targeted to a specific ethnic or cultural group, and you will find women of all races, colors, and of course religions.

WHAT ???

The abuse and killing of women for alleged honor crimes is not Islamic.

Then why is a woman being assaulted for converting from Islam???

Nor is the abuse of women inherently as “American as apple pie”.

What do you think? Is the media coverage of honor killings in the Muslim world fair?

What other religion allows honor killings?? I would denounce their actions equally.

soundvision.com/info/misc/honor.asp

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif

Salaam/peace

uhh …only 5/6 Muslims are here ; you can’t expect that we will be able to read & reply to hundreds anti - Islamic posts.

If any wrong incident takes place in any corner of the world by Muslims , it’s the Islam who is to blame; when non-Muslims do any such sins/crimes , why u don’t put blame on any specific religion/ holy books ?

HONOR KILLINGS
IN AMERICA & ABROAD

…Consider the following from the US Department of Justice, General Statistics:

Every 9 seconds, a woman is battered.

Up to 50% of all homeless women and children in the United States are fleeing domestic violence.

…Yet, there are nearly 3 times as many animal shelters in the United States as there are shelters for battered women. And lest we forget, this is happening in a country where the president has seen fit to violate his marriage vows in a most disgusting abuse of power and exploitation of a young woman.

Yet polls reveal that he still maintains support from many Americans.

Given these facts, would anyone dare argue that there is something inherently wrong with these Judeo-Christian Americans? Or with American culture as such?

No, of course not. A history of abuse and violence in families, socioeconomic factors and jealousy on the part of husbands and boyfriends are just some of the explanations given for the abuse of women, especially wives and girlfriends in America.

Walk into a women’s shelter that is not targeted to a specific ethnic or cultural group, and you will find women of all races, colors, and of course religions.

The abuse and killing of women for alleged honor crimes is not Islamic.

Nor is the abuse of women inherently as “American as apple pie”.

What do you think? Is the media coverage of honor killings in the Muslim world fair?

soundvision.com/info/misc/honor.asp

There is evil perpetrated all over the world.

However, in this case it was perpetrated for Islam.

Why aren’t Muslims protesting against this treatment?

Why can’t Muslims convert to Christianity peacefully?

 

[Ag_not]

What do you think? Is the media coverage of honor killings in the Muslim world fair?

soundvision.com/info/misc/honor.asp

Do you, as a muslim woman, condemn what these muslim men have done to this woman and her family, in the name of Islam? Just answer yes or no.

 

[swariffin]

Egyptian Convert to Christianity Tortured, Raped in Egypt​

Posted GMT 12-20-2008 4:2:47​

(AINA) – Martha Samuel, an Egyptian Muslim who converted to Christianity 5 years ago, was arrested at Cairo airport on Wednesday as she and her husband and two sons (4 and 2) were leaving for Russia (AINA 12-17-2008). Her name was on the observation list of people prevented from leaving the country.

The Egypt for Christ Ministry is reporting that Martha Samuel has been subjected to sexual assault by Egyptian police officers at El-Nozha police station as well as at the National Security office in Heliopolis. She has also been beaten and tortured in an attempt to force her to return to Islam. The police have promised to release her if she returns to Islam.

Martha Samuel and her children, who are also under arrest, is to be transferred from the National Security office in Heliopolis to Al-Qanater prison after seeing the “renewal judge.” The children are not being provided with food deliberately to pressure their mother to return to Islam. Fadl Thabet, Martha’s husband, has been taken to the National Security office in Alexandria (Somoha District).

Martha Samuel, whose former name is Zainab Said Abdel-Aziz, and her family were trying to travel to Russia using a passport of her Christian name, in order to escape from the continuous persecution by the Egyptian police and her own family, who have been trying to kill her for 5 years as a result of her conversion.

aina.org/news/20081219220247.htm

Any muslims convert to another religion is considered less human by some Islamic thought.

 

[ferdie]

Any muslims convert to another religion is considered less human by some Islamic thought.

How so, and what do you mean by less human? Is it the same with how Hitler and the nazi viewed the Jews back then?

 

[Muslim_Woman]

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

Salaam/peace

… Just answer yes or no.

answered several times with explanations. In Islam, no injustice should be done to anyone.

Normally Rapist get death penalty in Islam. Converting to other faith is not a punishable offense if s/he is not involved in any conspiracy against Muslims.

Is Apostasy a Capital Crime in Islam?

By Dr. Jamal A. Badawi**

…Behold, as for those who come to believe, and then deny the truth, and again come to believe, and again deny the truth, and thereafter grow stubborn in their denial of truth — God will not forgive them, nor will guide them in any way.] (An-Nisaa’ 4:137)

It is important to note in the above verse that if the Qur’an prescribes capital punishment for apostasy, then the apostate should be killed after the first instance of apostasy. As such there would be no opportunity to “again come to believe and again deny the truth, and thereafter grow stubborn in their denial of truth”. In spite of these acts of repeated apostasy, no capital punishment is prescribed for them

islamonline.net/English/contemporary/2006/04/article02.shtml

 

[CopticOrthodox]

Hello,

I thought I would share with you the problem in its entirity, I’m an Egyptian Coptic Orthodox Christian and I like to be fair, so here’s the thing…

In Egypt, the constitution in theory gives equal rights and duties to all Egyptians (christian and muslim), but unfortunately, this is not really the case…

For a christian to change to the muslim faith, it’s a very easy thing to do and doesn’t take much time at all, but the government does not give this right to muslims wanting to convert to christianity, they don’t officially recognize converts and it’s impossible to change your official papers (new christian name, etc.) The only thing allowed is for people who were born chrisitan, then converted to Islam, and who want to go back to christianity…
For them it’s also a struggle and they spend years in the courtrooms but thank God, recently there has been some progress in their cases and they can go back to their christian faith officially…

Now, since the government is not fair in granting those who were born muslims the right to change their religion, this girl had to resort to faking her official documents, she took on the identity of a coptic orthodox woman her age who had died recently…

So to be fair and correct, they didn’t hold her for becoming a christian (although this would have been possible), but in this particular case, she is guilty of faking official documents…

Also, I should mention, she got married to her husband at the hands of a coptic orthodox priest, who was not aware of the fact that her documents were fake, this priest has been charged as an accomplice in the crime and is in prison now, sitting out a 5 year punishment!!! This is completely unfair, as he didn’t have any knowledge of the crime…

Please remember him in your prayers so that he may endure with joy, knowing that in the midst of his troubles, the Lord is there to comfort him…

Also I would like to add, justice has no nationality or religion, we, the chrisitans of Egypt, are only asking for justice and equal treatment… I speak for many when I say, I love my country and my church, but I also love my muslim brothers in Egypt, of whom many love us back and are very openminded and also plead for equal rights for all!

God bless you

In Christ,
CopticOrthodox

 

[Ag_not]

answered several times with explanations.

My apologies then if I missed them, but I did not see YOU, as a muslim woman, say YOU condemn these actions. Putting up citations as to what is or isnt the case in the Quran is NOT the same as YOU saying, YOU as a muslim, condemn these actions by these muslim men. I’m interested as a woman to hear YOUR view as a woman.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

Salaam/peace

… it’s impossible to change your official papers (new christian name, etc.)

thanks for the update. If a person believes that Jesus (p) is God , then s/he is not a Muslim anymore . No one should force him/her to just utter the words that I am a Muslim. God knows one’s heart .

But I don’t understand why s/he needs paper to prove that s/he is a Christian ? All new Christians need to leave the country because they face hostility or they are becoming Christians to get US/ UK visa ? In my country , many do that for that reason.

can go back to their christian faith officially…

why officially they need to go back to Christianity ? Can’t they just go to Church , confess & live like a Christan again ?

she is guilty of faking official documents…

she became a Christian 5 years back . So , if conversion was her sin , they should have arrested her long ago. Looks like using fake documents could be the reason for her arrest. Anyway , if she is raped by the Police , obviously it’s a serious crime & rapist should get the death penalty.

who was not aware of the fact that her documents were fake

how do you know that ?

I love my country and my church, but I also love my muslim brothers in Egypt,

I read somewhere that relationship between Muslims & Christians are good in Egypt. Since when it turned bad ?

I remember a Christian from Egypt in other forum . He took his screen name as Yusuf ( from Quran ) to give Muslims a message that you are my brothers. In the same forum , some Christians regularly wrote our Prophet name as
Mu ham head. Because of that Egyptian Christian & one other Christian , it became possible for me not to hate all Christians.

I wish , relationship between Muslims & Christians will be better in future.

 

[CopticOrthodox]

Of course they don’t need papers to be true christians, but it’s a matter of principle. If christians who convert to Islam have the right to change their papers, then so should muslims who convert to christianity, this would be fair.

And I agree with you, some convert to christianity to get out of Egypt and get a visa for US/UK, but definitly not all of them. Also I should note the church tries to verify the person’s true intention during months (sometimes even years) before they baptize them.

Also, as you very well know, in Islam, muslim women aren’t allowed to marry christian men, thus it was necessary for that woman to change her papers to be able to get married to her christian husband.

Yusuf is not only mentioned in the Quran but also in the Bible. So someone using this name doens’t mean anything…

Relations between muslims and christians in Egypt were good, but have been getting worse since the seventies (the period of El Sadat…) but thank God, there are still good people in Egypt (both muslims and christians) who love Egypt and love eachother…

And the priest didn’t know because it’s not the job of the priest to verify their documents. It’s not his duty to see if they’re fake or not, there’s no way he could have known.
And even so, he is not an accomplice in the crime of faking the papers, and definitly doesn’t deserve 5 YEARS of prison…

God bless you

 

[ferdie]

Of course they don’t need papers to be true christians, but it’s a matter of principle. If christians who convert to Islam have the right to change their papers, then so should muslims who convert to christianity, this would be fair.

And I agree with you, some convert to christianity to get out of Egypt and get a visa for US/UK, but definitly not all of them. Also I should note the church tries to verify the person’s true intention during months (sometimes even years) before they baptize them.

Also, as you very well know, in Islam, muslim women aren’t allowed to marry christian men, thus it was necessary for that woman to change her papers to be able to get married to her christian husband.

Yusuf is not only mentioned in the Quran but also in the Bible. So someone using this name doens’t mean anything…

Relations between muslims and christians in Egypt were good, but have been getting worse since the seventies (the period of El Sadat…) but thank God, there are still good people in Egypt (both muslims and christians) who love Egypt and love eachother…

And the priest didn’t know because it’s not the job of the priest to verify their documents. It’s not his duty to see if they’re fake or not, there’s no way he could have known.
And even so, he is not an accomplice in the crime of faking the papers, and definitly doesn’t deserve 5 YEARS of prison…

God bless you

Did he get a lawyer at all? Must be a lousy lawyer. It wouldn’t be hard for me to get a fake baptismal and birth certificates just to get married. All the priest have to do is copy those documents. He is not going to investigate if those papers are original or not, that is not his job!!!

 

[CopticOrthodox]

Did he get a lawyer at all? Must be a lousy lawyer. It wouldn’t be hard for me to get a fake baptismal and birth certificates just to get married. All the priest have to do is copy those documents. He is not going to investigate if those papers are original or not, that is not his job!!!

A lawyer won’t do you much good if the system in itsself is corrupt…if the law is not being followed…

 

[ferdie]

A lawyer won’t do you much good if the system in itsself is corrupt…if the law is not being followed…

Don’t you guys have human rights activist there? How about the the international human rights group, can they do something about that?