Christian Convert Kidnapped, Raped, Still Held in Egypt

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ferdie said:
Did he get a lawyer at all? Must be a lousy lawyer. It wouldn’t be hard for me to get a fake baptismal and birth certificates just to get married. All the priest have to do is copy those documents. He is not going to investigate if those papers are original or not, that is not his job!!!
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ferdie said:
Don’t you guys have human rights activist there? How about the the international human rights group, can they do something about that?
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Yes, of course, we have human rights activists, and also Egypt has signed all the big human rights charters (including the UN '48), but all of that is not being respected! And the activists are powerless, they can only critizise what’s going on…

This is not the only human rights violation to happen in Egypt, and it’s not just the christians that suffer, all Egypt is suffering, muslims and christians, suffering from poverty, extremism waves coming from neighbouring countries and so much more…

But we have faith in God who said ‘Blessed be Egypt, my people’, we, the Copts, have been through far worse persecutions than this (eg Romans, Byzantines, Ottomans…). We know that our prayers can move mountains (litterally, as this did happen with Mount Moqattam in Cairo!)

But I appreciate your concern though…

God bless you
 
CopticOrthodox said:
Yes, of course, we have human rights activists, and also Egypt has signed all the big human rights charters (including the UN '48), but all of that is not being respected! And the activists are powerless, they can only critizise what’s going on…

This is not the only human rights violation to happen in Egypt, and it’s not just the christians that suffer, all Egypt is suffering, muslims and christians, suffering from poverty, extremism waves coming from neighbouring countries and so much more…

But we have faith in God who said ‘Blessed be Egypt, my people’, we, the Copts, have been through far worse persecutions than this (eg Romans, Byzantines, Ottomans…). We know that our prayers can move mountains (litterally, as this did happen with Mount Moqattam in Cairo!)

But I appreciate your concern though…

God bless you
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I always admire christians who persevere in muslims countries and I don’t mean to malign you countrymen when I said that.
You are not alone, a lot of countries are suffering right now because of greed, and corruption in all intitutions.😦
 
Ag_not said:
My apologies then if I missed them, but I did not see YOU, as a muslim woman, say YOU condemn these actions. Putting up citations as to what is or isnt the case in the Quran is NOT the same as YOU saying, YOU as a muslim, condemn these actions by these muslim men. I’m interested as a woman to hear YOUR view as a woman.
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To be fair, she did advocate the death penalty for these rapists. That’s a pretty strong condemnation to me.
 
celticsfan1983 said:
To be fair, she did advocate the death penalty for these rapists. That’s a pretty strong condemnation to me.
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Here’s what she said:
Normally Rapist get death penalty in Islam. Converting to other faith is not a punishable offense if s/he is not involved in any conspiracy against Muslims.
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The use of the word ‘‘normally’’ and the insertion of the condition of none in volvement in a ‘‘conspiracy’’ troubled me. That’s not an unequovical condemnation and she does not say SHE condemns them. Reading many of her replies, I have yet to see any unequovical condemnation of such acts. But I repeat, I may have missed them. Normally, she will go on the defensive and bring up the crusades, priestly abuse etc, but not outright unequovically condemn fellow muslims for their actions. I’m left wondering why that is.
 
We have spoken on other threads about what “Moderate” Muslims can do to change the image of Islam in the eyes of others. here is a good time. Write to the Egyptions. Protest. Call the UN into action. Contact the US State Department. Rally in the streets to get this changed, the guilty punished, and make sure it never happens again.

Or just condone it with your silence
 
ralphinal said:
We have spoken on other threads about what “Moderate” Muslims can do to change the image of Islam in the eyes of others. here is a good time. Write to the Egyptions. Protest. Call the UN into action. Contact the US State Department. Rally in the streets to get this changed, the guilty punished, and make sure it never happens again.

Or just condone it with your silence
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Imagine a priest in the US thrown in jail for five years for marrying people with fake documents. How would the priest know that? It happens only to places where christainity is hated.:mad: :o 😦
 
Muslim_Woman said:
obviously it’s a serious crime & rapist should get the death penalty.
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That line came after the fact, but it still looks like a condemnation to me. Despite the lack of a yes or no, I believe Muslim Woman has common sense and good in her heart, and would obviously condemn the horrid attack.
 
celticsfan1983 said:
That line came after the fact, but it still looks like a condemnation to me. Despite the lack of a yes or no, I believe Muslim Woman has common sense and good in her heart, and would obviously condemn the horrid attack.
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I can condemn that too in words, but actions speaks louder. She need and every “moderate” muslims need to go in muslim forums, out in the street, media, muslims countries and condemn this.
 
ferdie said:
Imagine a priest in the US thrown in jail for five years for marrying people with fake documents. How would the priest know that? It happens only to places where christainity is hated.:mad: :o 😦
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What amazes me is the whole “papers” for Christians. That is the first step towards death camps. Sorry to say it like that, but I read that book already. IT was called Nazi Germany. First, you register. Then, you are taken to “ghettos” where you are told that hard work will free you. Then you are killed.
 
ferdie said:
I can condemn that too in words, but actions speaks louder. She need and every “moderate” muslims need to go in muslim forums, out in the street, media, muslims countries and condemn this.
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That’s something we ALL need to do. And we complain here in the states about a “war on Christmas.” We should all open our eyes and see that there is a war, but its against our fellow brothers and sisters in Christ.
 
ralphinal said:
What amazes me is the whole “papers” for Christians. That is the first step towards death camps. Sorry to say it like that, but I read that book already. IT was called Nazi Germany. First, you register. Then, you are taken to “ghettos” where you are told that hard work will free you. Then you are killed.
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I may be wrong, and I hope CopticOrthodox will come back and explain, but I think papers here refer to things like passport, identity document and things of that sort. It is quite common when a person converts to a completely different religion that they want to change their name, especially in a case where their name may reflect that they still belong to their former religion.

Being from Africa and working in the Middle East, I can tell US citizens that there are things that happen in some parts of the world in spite of human rights agreements, etc.
 
VivienneJ said:
I may be wrong, and I hope CopticOrthodox will come back and explain, but I think papers here refer to things like passport, identity document and things of that sort. It is quite common when a person converts to a completely different religion that they want to change their name, especially in a case where their name may reflect that they still belong to their former religion.

Being from Africa and working in the Middle East, I can tell US citizens that there are things that happen in some parts of the world in spite of human rights agreements, etc.
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Yes, Vivienne is right, when I said papers I meant identity papers and such. Some muslims have very clear muslim names (eg Mohammed, Ismael,…) and thus it’s only normal they would like to change them. Also, (and I personally think this is a disgrace), there’s a space on your ID-card where your religion is stated.
So it’s not very nice to walk around with an ID that says you’re a muslim when you’re not.
But personally I think this space should be removed, it shouldn’t matter what religion you are, and the government doesn’t have to know… There is no practical use for it at all!
Having your religion stated on your ID card can, in my humble opinion, only lead to discrimination…

But you know, maybe God will use this priest to bring more people to Him… (cf Silas and Paul)

and I would like to share with you a saying by our Pope HH Pope Shenouda III (who had been put under house arrest during the rule of president El Sadat) he always says: my happiness depends on my relationship with God, not on where I am or with whom…

God bless you

God bless you
 
VivienneJ said:
I may be wrong, and I hope CopticOrthodox will come back and explain, but I think papers here refer to things like passport, identity document and things of that sort. It is quite common when a person converts to a completely different religion that they want to change their name, especially in a case where their name may reflect that they still belong to their former religion.

Being from Africa and working in the Middle East, I can tell US citizens that there are things that happen in some parts of the world in spite of human rights agreements, etc.
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CopticOrthodox said:
Yes, Vivienne is right, when I said papers I meant identity papers and such. Some muslims have very clear muslim names (eg Mohammed, Ismael,…) and thus it’s only normal they would like to change them. Also, (and I personally think this is a disgrace), there’s a space on your ID-card where your religion is stated.
So it’s not very nice to walk around with an ID that says you’re a muslim when you’re not.
But personally I think this space should be removed, it shouldn’t matter what religion you are, and the government doesn’t have to know… There is no practical use for it at all!
Having your religion stated on your ID card can, in my humble opinion, only lead to discrimination…

But you know, maybe God will use this priest to bring more people to Him… (cf Silas and Paul)

and I would like to share with you a saying by our Pope HH Pope Shenouda III (who had been put under house arrest during the rule of president El Sadat) he always says: my happiness depends on my relationship with God, not on where I am or with whom…

God bless you

God bless you
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Ok. That is a little better, then. It does make sense. But it is still problematic that your faith is posted on your papers. I still hold that this is the first step to oppression.
 
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