Christian Crusader threats, again.

[Hadith]

**I’m quite aware of the “lesser” Jihad.

Islam by the way, is not “winning” Europe. The only “winning” is in your women bearing children in European countries.

I doubt very much that your “dream” of taking over Italy and the Vatican will ever be realized. Too many Catholics and God fearing Protestants that would first see your people blown to bits than to take over anything that has been instituted by Christ and His people.

I’m just wondering at this point - if you live in the U.S. If you do, you should not be living here in a democracy but with your own evil oppressed and hateful people. If you live in the United States or anywhere else other than the Middle East or Egypt - then your motives are purely evil. Maybe the FBI should run a tap on you, since there are hidden Muslim terrorist cells ready to do harm to anybody - not just to Christians - your own people as well as a matter of fact.

**

**YES, OF COURSE – THE CRUSADES! AND IF IT EVER GOT SO BAD THAT WE NEEDED TO CALL TO ARMS ANOTHER CRUSADE IN ORDER TO DEFEND OUR CHURCH AND RELIGION - I’M SURE NO ONE WOULD OBJECT!

I KNOW I’LL BE THE FIRST TO SIGN UP TO SERVE THE CHURCH IN SUCH A CATASTROPHE!**

Let me to understand this correctly, on another thread we have a pleasent talk about Islam and here we see a Christian response.

This is the typical response we Muslims must live with day and day.

First fear that our fertile women and virile men make more babies than the Christians do. There is no crime in this. And this is winning the land where we make babies. If I make more babies than you I am more than you and your voice is silenced. I win. We win. Islam WINS. Yes?

In a democratic land like Italy when we have more babies than the Italians do then we have more votes, yes? No? Of course yes. Then we will vote to cut off the pimple on the map of Rome and let it starve on the vine. No more money from the Islamic people of Italy. This is all peaceful yes? Then why is the above Christian saying we Muslims will be blown to bits?

And next we have a threats from the FBI to investigates me? Why? Because I speak my mind? This is not allowed now that it offends a Christian? Is this not the whole discussion now in Europe with the horrid cartoons of Muhammad? So it is ok for you to protest me and my speak but we cannot protest to defend our faith? Is this example of Christian love?

And finally the ultimate card is played. The Crusade threat against Islam again? This is not peace loving. This is not turning your next cheeck.

Please, go to Barnes and Noble and buy a copy of the Koran. Come reason with us, let us discuss your conversion to the religion of peace. It is clearly more rational than your above example of how a Christian is to behave.

Peace

 

[Suzie1962]

I wasn’t involved in the prior conversation, but your post screams to be addressed. Need I remind you of your own words:

“It does get their attention. I point you to the controversy in Europe over there publishing those blasphemeious cartoons of Allah. The Ummah rose up and the wicked relented to offer appologies. The wicked in the world, like small children, only understand a firm hand and threats, it is all that works. Until the PLO began blowing up aircraft they were ignored as a people and now we see Hammas has finally taken the lead in Palestine and we see that violence does breed legitimacy. This is the best way to stop insults to Muhammad.”

It seems hypocritical to me that you speak of “threats” of Crusades after having made the post referenced above; really, who is threatening who here? The poster you referenced in regards to a new Crusade appears to me to have spoken in a rhetorical manner regarding a rhetorical situation; if the existence of the Vatican were truly threatened, he/she would be willing to fight to protect it. I think most Catholics would feel the same way.

YOUR statement, on the other hand, cannot be considered rhetorical. You are clearly advocating violence, threats of violence, and murder as appropriate responses to “insults to Muhammad.” It is neither productive nor desirable to attempt to reason with those whose response to disagreement is violence and murder. Frankly, so long as yours is representative of the mindset of so many in the Muslim world, I see no hope for peace in the Middle East or anywhere else. I pray that there is never a need for a repeat of the Crusades, but frankly, you diminish my hope.

 

[QUICUMQUE_VULT]

Hadith:

Let me to understand this correctly, on another thread we have a pleasent talk about Islam and here we see a Christian response.

This is the typical response we Muslims must live with day and day.

First fear that our fertile women and virile men make more babies than the Christians do. There is no crime in this. And this is winning the land where we make babies. If I make more babies than you I am more than you and your voice is silenced. I win. We win. Islam WINS. Yes?

In a democratic land like Italy when we have more babies than the Italians do then we have more votes, yes? No? Of course yes. Then we will vote to cut off the pimple on the map of Rome and let it starve on the vine. No more money from the Islamic people of Italy. This is all peaceful yes? Then why is the above Christian saying we Muslims will be blown to bits?

And next we have a threats from the FBI to investigates me? Why? Because I speak my mind? This is not allowed now that it offends a Christian? Is this not the whole discussion now in Europe with the horrid cartoons of Muhammad? So it is ok for you to protest me and my speak but we cannot protest to defend our faith? Is this example of Christian love?

And finally the ultimate card is played. The Crusade threat against Islam again? This is not peace loving. This is not turning your next cheeck.

Please, go to Barnes and Noble and buy a copy of the Koran. Come reason with us, let us discuss your conversion to the religion of peace. It is clearly more rational than your above example of how a Christian is to behave.

Peace

Well my muslim neighbors are married to catholic women,and guess what?
ALL of their children are baptized and BROUGHT UP as Catholics! So what do you say to that?
My friends (2Muslim brothers) are 2 of the finest individuals i have ever been friends with, They own A business next door. And they truly are “Neighbors” in every sense of the word.
They are Happy and thankful to be US citizens, They never had it so good (In their own words) They are nothing like you. They are BROTHERS to me.

 

[discipleofJesus]

Just so others know, the post that ‘Hadith’ quoted CindyGia from was from this thread forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=96002 post #51, to read it in context, you might want to read it along with 'Hadith’s previous posts on that thread and CindyGia’s previous posts on that thread

Hadith:

Let me to understand this correctly, on another thread we have a pleasent talk about Islam and here we see a Christian response.

This is the typical response we Muslims must live with day and day.

What is this typical response you are talking about?

Hadith:

First fear that our fertile women and virile men make more babies than the Christians do. There is no crime in this. And this is winning the land where we make babies. If I make more babies than you I am more than you and your voice is silenced. I win. We win. Islam WINS. Yes?

If that is the intention of Muslims, to win more land and silence the people who accepted them into their land i find that disgusting and horrible! I am not sure if this is a crime, but it sounds like a conspiracy and should be illegal! Instead of Muslims appreciating the fact that non-Muslims have allowed Muslims into their land, they are planning to take over by having babies and silencing the people who let them in?!
As a side note, maybe this is why Islam is the fastest growing religion, Muslims make a lot of babies, not because of many people converting to it.

Hadith:

In a democratic land like Italy when we have more babies than the Italians do then we have more votes, yes? No? Of course yes. Then we will vote to cut off the pimple on the map of Rome and let it starve on the vine. No more money from the Islamic people of Italy. This is all peaceful yes? Then why is the above Christian saying we Muslims will be blown to bits?

I assume by “lesser” jihad, CindyGia thought you meant the terrorist activities conducted by Muslims around the world and/or the Muslim belief of spreading Islam by the sword i.e. offensively and violently. Isn’t that what “lesser” jihad is (i.e. spreading Islam by the sword), or at least close to that? CindyGia can correct me if she reads this post and believes I have misunderstood her.

As for your so-called peaceful ways, they don’t seem peaceful to me. But even if they were, they are tainted by bad intentions as I said above.

Hadith:

And next we have a threats from the FBI to investigates me? Why? Because I speak my mind? This is not allowed now that it offends a Christian? Is this not the whole discussion now in Europe with the horrid cartoons of Muhammad? So it is ok for you to protest me and my speak but we cannot protest to defend our faith? Is this example of Christian love?.

Yes they should investigate you. Not because you drew offensive cartoons but because you seem to have evil intentions and sound like a terrorist.
What has this got to do with Christian love?

cont…

 

[discipleofJesus]

…

Hadith:

And finally the ultimate card is played. The Crusade threat against Islam again? This is not peace loving. This is not turning your next cheeck.

The Crusades were defensive wars in direct response to Muslim aggression! Christians are peace loving. We do not want to attack anyone. But we must defend ourselves and loved ones from attacks (or at least, we must defend our loved ones from attacks if not ourselves too). Turning the other cheeck does not mean we cannot defend ourselves or our loved ones. It does not mean that countries cannot defend themselves and their loved ones. I think it is more about not attacking for revenge and not using violence when it is not needed to defend ourselves and other innocent people.

So what is the truth about the Crusades? Scholars are still working some of that out. But much can already be said with certainty. **For starters, the Crusades ** to the East were in every way defensive wars. They were a direct response to Muslim aggression—an attempt to turn back or defend against Muslim conquests of Christian lands.

Christians in the eleventh century were not paranoid fanatics. Muslims really were gunning for them. While Muslims can be peaceful,** Islam was born in war and grew the same way. From the time of Mohammed, the means of Muslim expansion was always the sword. Muslim thought divides the world into two spheres, the Abode of Islam and the Abode of War**. Christianity—and for that matter any other non-Muslim religion—has no abode. Christians and Jews can be tolerated within a Muslim state under Muslim rule. But, in traditional Islam, Christian and Jewish states must be destroyed and their lands conquered.

Taken from “The Real History of the Crusades”
By Thomas F. Madden (bold and underline emphasis mine)
crisismagazine.com/april2002/cover.htm

Hadith:

Please, go to Barnes and Noble and buy a copy of the Koran. Come reason with us, let us discuss your conversion to the religion of peace. It is clearly more rational than your above example of how a Christian is to behave.

Peace

Yea right, ‘come reason with us, but if you find anything wrong in the Quran and tell us about it, watch out!’ ‘come reason with us, but don’t you dare disagree with us! because if you do, watch out!’ It is not clearly more rational than CindyGia’s above example of how a Christian is to behave.

After writing your whole post you have the audacity to end your post with ‘peace’???!!!

 

[discipleofJesus]

More on the Crusades

When Mohammed was waging war against Mecca in the seventh century, Christianity was the dominant religion of power and wealth. As the faith of the Roman Empire, it spanned the entire Mediterranean, including the Middle East, where it was born. The Christian world, therefore, was a prime target for the earliest caliphs, and it would remain so for Muslim leaders for the next thousand years.

With enormous energy, the warriors of Islam struck out against the Christians shortly after Mohammed’s death. They were extremely successful. Palestine, Syria, and Egypt—once the most heavily Christian areas in the world—quickly succumbed. By the eighth century, Muslim armies had conquered all of Christian North Africa and Spain. In the eleventh century, the Seljuk Turks conquered Asia Minor (modern Turkey), which had been Christian since the time of St. Paul. The old Roman Empire, known to modern historians as the Byzantine Empire, was reduced to little more than Greece. In desperation, the emperor in Constantinople sent word to the Christians of western Europe asking them to aid their brothers and sisters in the East.

That is what gave birth to the Crusades. They were not the brainchild of an ambitious pope or rapacious knights but a response to more than four centuries of conquests in which Muslims had already captured two-thirds of the old Christian world. At some point, Christianity as a faith and a culture had to defend itself or be subsumed by Islam. The Crusades were that defense.

Taken from “The Real History of the Crusades”
By Thomas F. Madden (bold and underline emphasis mine)
crisismagazine.com/april2002/cover.htm

 

[discipleofJesus]

discipleofJesus:

Just so others know, the post that ‘Hadith’ quoted CindyGia from was from this thread forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=96002 post #51, to read it in context, you might want to read it along with 'Hadith’s previous posts on that thread and CindyGia’s previous posts on that thread

I just noticed that ‘Hadith’ also quoted post #53 by CindyGia on the same thread.

 

[JimG]

Hadith:

Please, go to Barnes and Noble and buy a copy of the Koran. Come reason with us, let us discuss your conversion to the religion of peace.

Discuss our conversion? That sounds like a rather one-sided dialogue. Buying a Koran at Barnes and Noble is fine; so is buying a Bible.

I’m all for freedom of speech and freedom of religion. Do they have Barnes & Noble stores in Saudi and Iran and Pakistan? If so, do they have Bibles for sale? Is it possible for Christians to enjoy the same degree of religious freedom in those countries that Muslims enjoy in Italy or the United States?

 

[discipleofJesus]

JimG:

Discuss our conversion? That sounds like a rather one-sided dialogue. Buying a Koran at Barnes and Noble is fine; so is buying a Bible.

I’m all for freedom of speech and freedom of religion. Do they have Barnes & Noble stores in Saudi and Iran and Pakistan? If so, do they have Bibles for sale? Is it possible for Christians to enjoy the same degree of religious freedom in those countries that Muslims enjoy in Italy or the United States?

"Saudis Shred Bibles, Rights Campaigners Claim
By Patrick Goodenough
CNSNews.com International Editor
May 19, 2005

(CNSNews.com) - Bibles found in the possession of visitors to Saudi Arabia are routinely confiscated by customs officials, and in some cases copies allegedly have been put through a paper shredder, according to religious rights campaigners.

Reports from the Islamic world of the abuse of Bibles and other items important to Christians emerge from time to time, but generally have little impact - in contrast to the wave of Muslim anger sparked by a Newsweek report, since retracted, of Koran desecration by the U.S. military…"

excerpted from
cnsnews.com/ViewForeignBureaus.asp?Page=%5CForeignBureaus%5Carchive%5C200505%5CFOR20050519a.html

check it out

 

[eleusis]

discipleofJesus:

If that is the intention of Muslims, to win more land and silence the people who accepted them into their land i find that disgusting and horrible! I am not sure if this is a crime, but it sounds like a conspiracy and should be illegal! Instead of Muslims appreciating the fact that non-Muslims have allowed Muslims into their land, they are planning to take over by having babies and silencing the people who let them in?!
As a side note, maybe this is why Islam is the fastest growing religion, Muslims make a lot of babies, not because of many people converting to it. …

The situation you object to is one called Dhimmitude. It is when the Muslims take over the nation and impose their Sharia on the indigenous people forcing them into servitude.

Here below is an excerpt from an as yet unpublished document (it is unclassified):

Apparently this very situation was predicted by former Algerian President Houari Boumedienne in 1974 when he said, in a speech to the United Nations, “One day millions of men will leave the Southern Hemisphere to go to the Northern Hemisphere. And they will not go there as friends. Because they will go there to conquer it. And they will conquer it with their sons. The wombs of our women will give us victory”[1]

[1] name removed to protect privacy, U.S. Army Strategic Intelligence Officer*, The Islamization of France*, MSSI Thesis Proposal to the Faculty (Washington, DC: Joint Military Intelligence College, Jan 2006)

 

[StMarkEofE]

eleusis:

The situation you object to is one called Dhimmitude. It is when the Muslims take over the nation and impose their Sharia on the indigenous people forcing them into servitude.

Here below is an excerpt from an as yet unpublished document (it is unclassified):

Apparently this very situation was predicted by former Algerian President Houari Boumedienne in 1974 when he said, in a speech to the United Nations, “One day millions of men will leave the Southern Hemisphere to go to the Northern Hemisphere. And they will not go there as friends. Because they will go there to conquer it. And they will conquer it with their sons. The wombs of our women will give us victory”[1]

[1] name removed to protect privacy, U.S. Army Strategic Intelligence Officer*, The Islamization of France*, MSSI Thesis Proposal to the Faculty (Washington, DC: Joint Military Intelligence College, Jan 2006)

The Muslims breeding us out of existance, very possible.

 

[StMarkEofE]

eleusis:

The situation you object to is one called Dhimmitude. It is when the Muslims take over the nation and impose their Sharia on the indigenous people forcing them into servitude.

Here below is an excerpt from an as yet unpublished document (it is unclassified):

Apparently this very situation was predicted by former Algerian President Houari Boumedienne in 1974 when he said, in a speech to the United Nations, “One day millions of men will leave the Southern Hemisphere to go to the Northern Hemisphere. And they will not go there as friends. Because they will go there to conquer it. And they will conquer it with their sons. The wombs of our women will give us victory”[1]

[1] name removed to protect privacy, U.S. Army Strategic Intelligence Officer*, The Islamization of France*, MSSI Thesis Proposal to the Faculty (Washington, DC: Joint Military Intelligence College, Jan 2006)

I for one am not fooled into thinking that Muslims of the world are peaceful. “For they shall be know by their deeds.” For the Muslim, it is their sworn duty to spead their gospel, the Quran, and subject or eliminate those who do not submit to its teachings.

Love thy neighbor or turning the other cheek is unknown in the Quran. Their book does not tell us to Love but to submit. This is the most significant difference between the Bible and the Quran.

 

[majick275]

I did buy a copy of the Koran. I bought many years ago in the hopes of gaining an understanding of the mideast culture since religion is so integral to all aspects of life in that region. I read it cover to cover multiple times. I took it with me to Saudi Arabia when I fought in the first gulf war. I was hoping to be able hold up my end of the deal when working with our Muslim “allies”.

I do not see how anyone can objectively declare that the Koran teaches peace. It teaches a pale imitation using force to subjugate and enslave non-believers. That is the “ideal” in the book. In practice it is far worse. The actions of mohamed and the caliphate after him prove a desire to conquer the world by any means necessary. The actions of the wahabists today show a hypocritical willingness to commit any atrocity that advances their cause. There is no unified Umma. The shi’a claim the Sunni are wrong and vice versa, both claim the sufi are infidel. All proclaim death for those who would leave Islam. Yet the 9/11 bombers were getting drunk and consorting with whores in strip clubs the night before their crimes. Is that taught in Islam? The leaders of the wahabist nations of Saudi Arabia, Oman, UAE and Qatar all love to go to bharain to drink and gamble. Behind the walls of the palacial estates all manner of pornography, drugs and alcohol is to be found in Syria, Iraq, Egypt, Jordan, Arabia, etc. Hypocrites. Imams love to tell the media how they only preach peace but within their mosques are recruiting materials for terrorists. Islam desperately seeks conquest and lies to the world about its aims being holy and peaceful. The way these nations conduct themselves using slave labor from other nations by deceptively luring workers in is awful. The fact that a false religion started by a false prophet that teaches such barbaric practices REQUIRES us to rise up against it. There is such a thing as a just war. We can NOT allow these people to abuse and manipulate our courts and governments to cause sedition and the eventual death of our society. I would love to restrict them to their own countries and just live and let live peacefully. History shows us it simply is not possible. The Bible tells us there WILL be wars and especially in that region. We must be prepared for it. It is simply the way things really are. ( regrettable though that may be)

 

[Hadith]

eleusis:

name removed to protect privacy, U.S. Army Strategic Intelligence Officer*, The Islamization of France*, MSSI Thesis Proposal to the Faculty (Washington, DC: Joint Military Intelligence College, Jan 2006)

This is how America uses tax dollars? You are paid to study Islam?

 

[George_Waters]

Hadith:

This is how America uses tax dollars? You are paid to study Islam?

So, as you can not/refuse to answer any of the questions addressed to you on the subject you began, you change the subject and make this about US tax dollars now?

 

[eleusis]

Hadith:

This is how America uses tax dollars? You are paid to study Islam?

Yup.

Know thy enemy. And militant Islam is the enemy. Are you a militant?

And the Congress charged the DIA with running the only graduate level intelligence program in the nation. A program run behind locked doors, under code word level secrecy protection. A program producing hundreds of graduates a year who devote their year producing a thesis on subjects of importance to the defense of the United States. Its known as the “Harvard of the Intelligence Community” but the public doesn’t know about it because of the secrecy. They don’t advertise.

Ever wonder just how it was that the Soviets couldn’t topple Afghanistan in 10 years but the USA did it in 90 days?

There’s your tax dollars at work. There’s your tax dollars going to protect and defend freedom of religion. And I can assure you, the Vatican Intelligence Service is not kept out of the loop either.

 

[CindyGia]

**WOW!!! HOORAY!!! WAY TO GO CATHOLICS!!!

I JUST HAPPENED TO WANDER ONTO THE NON-CATHOLIC FORUMS AND WAS SHOCKED TO SEE THAT THIS “HADITH” GUY STARTED A WHOLE THREAD REGARDING MY REPLIES TO HIS VICIOUS STATEMENTS FROM ANOTHER THREAD - WITHOUT EVEN ASKING ME OR LETTING ME KNOW. QUITE SNEAKY - AND TYPICAL OF ISLAM.

I GOT A GOOD CHUCKLE HOW HE USED THE “SHOULDN’T CHRISTIANS TURN THE OTHER CHEEK RATHER THAN CONFRONT US SCARY MILITANT MUSLIMS?” APPROACH.

SEE? THIS IS THE THING FELLOW CHRISTIANS. ISLAM IS WELL AWARE THAT CHRISTIANITY IS THE “TRUE RELIGION OF PEACE” AND ARE AWARE THAT WE ARE TAUGHT TO “TURN THE OTHER CHEEK” WHEN CONFLICTS ARISE . BUT LITTLE DO THEY REALIZE THAT CHRISTIANS WON’T CONCEDE TO THEIR THREATS.

YES, IT SEEMS TO ME THEIR “GREAT SECRET PLAN” IS COMING INTO FOCUS - ENTERING OTHER (CHRISTIAN) COUNTRIES, PROCREATING ABUNDANTLY, AND THEN TRYING TO TAKE OVER THOSE COUNTRIES. THE PLAN IS QUITE EVIDENT. EVENTUALLY, AND I’M SURE OF IT - THERE WILL BE SOME TYPE OF REAL “HOLY WAR” BETWEEN ALL (CHRISTIAN) COUNTRIES AGAINST ISLAM TO GET THE WORLD BACK ON TRACK - AND PUT AN END TO THIS TERRORIST RELIGION TRYING TO TAKE OVER THE WORLD.

I ALSO HAD TO LAUGH AT HOW MR. HADITH NEVER RESPONDED TO ANY OF THE POSTS BELOW BUT INSTEAD, CHANGED THE SUBJECT TO DISCUSS GOVERNMENT TAX DOLLAR SPENDING!

COWARD!
**

 

[eleusis]

CindyGia:

**YES, IT SEEMS TO ME THEIR “GREAT SECRET PLAN” IS COMING INTO FOCUS - ENTERING OTHER (CHRISTIAN) COUNTRIES, PROCREATING ABUNDANTLY, AND THEN TRYING TO TAKE OVER THOSE COUNTRIES. THE PLAN IS QUITE EVIDENT. EVENTUALLY, AND I’M SURE OF IT - THERE WILL BE SOME TYPE OF REAL “HOLY WAR” BETWEEN ALL (CHRISTIAN) COUNTRIES AGAINST ISLAM **

---

The west is significantly hamstrung however with a simple concept the call “multiculturalism”. Through it all cultures are equally valid. No one culture deserves to be considered better or more enlightened than any other culture. The theory behind it is that if all are equal then there is no need for war or conflict.

The problem is when this sheepish concept comes into contact with militant Islam. They will use the freedoms allowed to preach their religion, will demand concession after concession such as censorship to the extreme and segregated schools etc. And then after they are established they will exact political concessions because to refuse them is “racist”. All the while the Christians are pushed off school property while Islam is forced on the children under the guise of “multicultural ethnic understanding”. My sister in Phoenix area had one of her daughters friends undergo Islamic indoctrination in school for two weeks. And it wasn’t optional either. They had to pick Muslim names, sit separately, learn to face mecca, draw prayer rugs, and learn the pillars of Islam and the life of Muhammad. Can you imagine a school allowing the study of Moses or Jesus with the same level of participation!!

We here in the west are seriously handi-capped and unless we take a stand and fight hard to hold our ground our freedoms are threatened.

 

[inJESUS]

Let US reason?? let us reason??? INDEED, LET US REASON WHAT WAS IN MOHAMMAS HEAD WHEN HE PLAGIARIZED FOLKLORES AND MYTH AND PUT THEM as divine in his "holy "qoran.

For arabic speaking people, here is a good book to read online about the origin of islam: ( if you know someone who reads arabic, let them translate for you: a must read)

muhammadanism.com/haddad/nazaritic_mission/quran_nazaritic_mission_1.pdf

muhammadanism.com/haddad/nazaritic_mission/quran_nazaritic_mission_2.pdf

 

[Hadith]

eleusis:

Yup.

Know thy enemy. And militant Islam is the enemy. Are you a militant?

And the Congress charged the DIA with running the only graduate level intelligence program in the nation. A program run behind locked doors, under code word level secrecy protection.\QUOTE]
So you admit you are spy?

Does not anyone else find it offensive that a spy is here on forum?