Christian, Jewish, and Muslim Dietary Laws

[planten]

So please read again the context and the words by words Jesus said to his followers, taken from the gospel of Mark (amplified version):

18And He said to them, Then are you also unintelligent and dull and without understanding? Do you not discern and see that whatever goes into a man from
the outside cannot make him unhallowed or unclean,
19Since it does not reach and enter his heart but [only his] digestive tract, and
so passes on [into the place designed to receive waste]? Thus He was making
and declaring all foods [ceremonially]clean [that is, abolishing the ceremonial
distinctions of the Levitical Law].
20And He said, What comes out of a man is what makes a man unclean and
renders [him] unhallowed.21For from within, [that is] out of the
hearts of men, come base and wicked thoughts, sexual immorality, stealing,
murder, adultery,22Coveting (a greedy desire to have
more wealth), dangerous and destructive wickedness, deceit;
unrestrained (indecent) conduct; an evil eye (envy), slander (evil speaking,
malicious misrepresentation, abusiveness), pride ( the sin of an
uplifted heart against God and man),foolishness (folly, lack of sense,
recklessness, thoughtlessness).23All these evil [purposes and desires]
come from within, and they make the man unclean and render him
unhallowed

And you don’t believe this??? What is it that you think goes against what Jesus taught in these verses?

Jesus said the right thing. We understand it. But you take wrong meanings of things. To allow you eating the flesh of swine there should have been an explicit order or permission in clear words. you cannot use a few words said in specail context to start eating pig food.

Who are you know making definition of what to be accepted as prophet? Laughable!
Any body can claim to have million visions but most important they should perform the authoritative power given by God by performing SIGNS…remember!
Revelation that goes with proven authoritative power like what Jesus and all his disciples had. Peter and all the other disicples had proven to have the power of God by performing miracles, healing the sicks,

I do not believe that any one did what Jesus himself did. Of course the disciples were supported (aided) by the holy spirit as was Jesus aided (guided) by the holy spirit.

How is revelation can be proven without the ability to prove the power given by God? If the ability to use swords is what you think justified to prove the power given by God, I doubt it!! Mao and Hitler did perform the same power!

you are wandering in wrong, useless fields. Sword also does not work without proper spiritual guidance. Your Roman catholic soldiers had the helmets and the swords too. But did it work against the Muslim forces. The Romans, christian forces failed at every place.

I bet they didn’t perform the SIGNS witnessed by people.

Do not try. Our Saints did better miracles than any of yours. Yours were mostly hiding in caves for 300 years.

We do believe that David was a prophet, to some extent Solomon was prophet too, by definition that they had communicated with God and revealed the messages to people recorded in the Psalms and Solomon’s song and Proverbs. But we deny that they didn’t perform sin as what your Islamic teaching. They were human being who were fallible.

You are all a great variety. I have personally seen many Catholics here who do not believe that david was a prophet. Some do not believe that Jesus was a prophet. How can we discuss things with any of you?? Do you believe that God talked to all nations,God talked to non istaeli nations?? I hope not. Do you believe that there were prophets amongst non-Israeli people??

 

[Steven_John]

I am with Br Mosacked and those whop see it is not what goes in you that really counts but what comes out of you.

Consume what you like, i dont think so consume what you need to do good works is the truth easier said than done.

I no longer eat pork not because of law but because i have been given a heart for the law. G-d taught it to my ancestors dietary laws for their benefit i believe they would still be beneficial even if it form abstaining from what is liked as a discipline.

As for the discussion on drugs and intoxicants i have a chuckle. it is not what goes in you but what comes out of you. I identify with the poster about Cigs being addictive so what might come out may not be so good.

My protestant fellowship prohibits drugs and frowns on alcohol and tobacco. They see coffee as good and promote its consumption to the point of even building a coffee lounge. Coffee is very addictive and takes a long time to get off and have good energy levels after prolonged consumption.

Seems to me for many of us a drug is what we dont accept in our tribe but if the majority like it it is ok.

I think Buddhists say it well offering dont have things in your life you become dependant on.

I think Islam says it well teaching G-d says good things are bad if not kept in moderation.

These fit well with the Christian understanding its not about the substance consumed but spiritual forces that influences bad behaviours and action.

Temperance is becoming a rarer gift where i live most of us have trouble with the effects of salt, fats and sugars.

Bless ya all

 

[amhara]

So it says, drink ( a little of it) but do not be a drunkard.

If you must be drunk, let it be with the Holy Spirit. … (obviously not the acoholic spirit )

Yes!

The Bible warns about the bad effects of getting drunk - seeing strange sights and being confused, saying stupid things, making poor decisions, vomiting, getting involved in fights, and losing one’s wealth.

Do not gaze at wine when it is red, when it sparkles in the cup, when it goes down smoothly! In the end it bites like a snake and poisons like a viper. Your eyes will see strange sights and your mind imagine confusing things. You will be like one sleeping on the high seas, lying on top of the rigging. “They hit me,” you will say, “but I’m not hurt! They beat me, but I don’t feel it! When will I wake up so I can find another drink?” (Proverbs 23:31-35)

Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit. (Ephesians 5:18)

 

[planten]

Yes!

The Bible warns about the bad effects of getting drunk - seeing strange sights and being confused, saying stupid things, making poor decisions, vomiting, getting involved in fights, and losing one’s wealth.

Do not gaze at wine when it is red, when it sparkles in the cup, when it goes down smoothly! In the end it bites like a snake and poisons like a viper. Your eyes will see strange sights and your mind imagine confusing things. You will be like one sleeping on the high seas, lying on top of the rigging. “They hit me,” you will say, “but I’m not hurt! They beat me, but I don’t feel it! When will I wake up so I can find another drink?” (Proverbs 23:31-35)

Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit. (Ephesians 5:18)

Please let me know who has given these good proverbs??? May be King Soloman??

 

[LittleSoldier]

That is impossible. How can all foods be clean, by one strokeof pen?? Whoever it was, he/she had no right to go against Judaism to which he belonged. He could not dare say such words amongst the Jews. he could not say anything against what Jesus had been teaching / practicing.

So *God *didn’t have the right to make all foods clean? Your disrespect is amazing.

We do not believe any inspiration. But revelation (Wahi) is well above inspiration. WE could admit the revelation only. But that is also subject to approval by the main book. If it goes against your main book (bibleNT) it will not be acceptable.

It doesn’t go against the New Testament. It’s *in *the New Testament!

Any one can have visions. But to be a prophet, one has to have many hundred or thousand vision. Visions are possible. Even a non-prophet can have vision or revelation (Wahi), like did the mother of Moses and mother of Jesus. But they cannot be prophets or prophetesses due to a one or two revelations . Even the disciples of Jesus were given revelation (Wahi). That is written in the Quran.

Perhaps you should let God know that the first 299 visions He sends to a person don’t count. I’m sure He would appreciate your wisdom.

**
But to be a prophet, one has to have many words of revelation, not just a few. There was no prophet or messenger between Jesus and Muhammad**. (hadith) There were just some guided persons who walked in the footsteps of Jesus. Not those who went astray and walked (taught) their own things against the teachings (practice) of Jesus.

I don’t understand what you are saying here.

We Muslims had many saints of high calibre. They received Wahi too, that is well after Muhammad. But none of them was a prophet because the quantity and the quality of their Wahi was not much. One example is the Syed Abdul Qadir Geelani.

Muslims *had *many saints? Did they become ex-saints when they died? Catholics know that if a person is a saint on earth that person is a saint in heaven. And anyone who dies when choosing to be with God becomes a saint in heaven. Yes, even the women. In fact, the greatest saint of all time is Mary, the mother of Jesus.

I don’t understand the rest of your post.

 

[LittleSoldier]

Yes!

The Bible warns about the bad effects of getting drunk - seeing strange sights and being confused, saying stupid things, making poor decisions, vomiting, getting involved in fights, and losing one’s wealth.

Do not gaze at wine when it is red, when it sparkles in the cup, when it goes down smoothly! In the end it bites like a snake and poisons like a viper. Your eyes will see strange sights and your mind imagine confusing things. You will be like one sleeping on the high seas, lying on top of the rigging. “They hit me,” you will say, “but I’m not hurt! They beat me, but I don’t feel it! When will I wake up so I can find another drink?” (Proverbs 23:31-35)

Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit. (Ephesians 5:18)

I hope you are aware that Jesus drank wine. His first miracle on earth was to change water into wine at a wedding:

On the third day there was a wedding in Cana in Galilee, and the mother of Jesus was there. Jesus and his disciples were also invited to the wedding. When the wine ran short, the mother of Jesus said to him, “They have no wine.”

(And) Jesus said to her, “Woman, how does your concern affect me? My hour has not yet come.” His mother said to the servers, “Do whatever he tells you.”

Now there were six stone water jars there for Jewish ceremonial washings, each holding twenty to thirty gallons. Jesus told them, “Fill the jars with water.” So they filled them to the brim. Then he told them, “Draw some out now and take it to the headwaiter.” So they took it.

And when the headwaiter tasted the water that had become wine, without knowing where it came from (although the servers who had drawn the water knew), the headwaiter called the bridegroom and said to him, “Everyone serves good wine first, and then when people have drunk freely, an inferior one; but you have kept the good wine until now.”

Jesus did this as the beginning of his signs in Cana in Galilee and so revealed his glory, and his disciples began to believe in him.

[John 2:1-11, NAB]

Pretty cool miracle, huh?

Wine was a part of the culture and wine plays an extremely important role in Catholicism.

Personally, I abhor it. I think it tastes like…well, that’s probably not appropriate and it’s off-topic anyway.

But I will *always *drink the blood of Jesus - the blood that was transformed from wine through transubstantiation.

Oh, I forgot. We’re not supposed to drink blood, are we?

 

[LittleSoldier]

Do not try. Our Saints did better miracles than any of yours. Yours were mostly hiding in caves for 300 years.

Your saints did better miracles than any of ours? What is this - some kind of “saint” football game?

“Here we are, folks, at the Catholic/Muslim football game. Let’s see, the Muslims have won the toss and have decided to punt. That is a great punt! I’ve never seen a football go so far! It’s a miracle! But wait! A Catholic has caught the ball and is racing toward the goal line…Wow, he has 60 yards to go and it doesn’t look like he’s gonna make it - too many Muslims around him…Wait! He appears to be successfully dodging every Muslim near him! I think he’s gonna make it! I think…YES! Touchdown for the Catholics! Another miracle!”

See how ridiculous your statement is?

Your holier-than-thou attitude just keeps getting stronger and stronger.

And Muslims don’t agree with each other on many fundamental issues.

BTW, God speaks to anyone who will listen. It makes absolutely no difference what their location on earth is. God speaks (and has spoken) to people in every part of the world. He created us, didn’t He?

All you have to do is listen.

 

[LittleSoldier]

I think my disgust with wine is because the first wine I ever drank was Manischewitz Concord Grape one Thanksgiving at my aunt’s house. That’s not a good wine to start off with.

Then everyone was telling me it was an acquired taste and that I should start off with dry wine. Uh uh. I especially hate dry wine (although I would probably prefer it to Manischewitz Concord Grape). I tried and tried and I never could acquire that taste; not even with fruity wines. Then I started asking myself why I needed to acquire this taste in the first place - who cares if I drink wine? I’d rather drink a Tom Collins. I’d really rather drink a Coke.

There are two wines I will drink (except that I never do). One is sake and the other is an Oriental plum wine I had once.

Now I can’t drink alcohol because I take heart medication.

I do like Chivas and brandy and Irish cream mixed in coffee. I think I really like the drinks that have alcohol but I can’t taste it, like a White Russian. So why bother with the alcohol in the first place? If I’m at a restaurant sometimes I’ll order something like a virgin frozen peach margarita. Those are really good.

 

[FathersKnowBest]

That is impossible. How can all foods be clean, by one strokeof pen?? Whoever it was, he/she had no right to go against Judaism to which he belonged. He could not dare say such words amongst the Jews. he could not say anything against what Jesus had been teaching / practicing.

LittleSoldier answered this pretty well, but I’ll add a few of my own thoughts.

God can change dietary requirements at will. He already had when He told Noah that flesh was ok to eat (Genesis 9:3). Actually, don’t Muslims believe that Allah changes his commandments frequently?

We do not believe any inspiration. But revelation (Wahi) is well above inspiration.

I don’t think you understand the terms you’re using. Inspiration is the word that means “god-breathed.”

WE could admit the revelation only. But that is also subject to approval by the main book. If it goes against your main book (bibleNT) it will not be acceptable.

Of course as LittleSoldier pointed out this is a ridiculous argument, since you’re arguing that the NT is going against the NT.

Any one can have visions.

That’s the claim that some make. These claims should be backed up by signs in order to be believed.

But to be a prophet, one has to have many hundred or thousand vision.

Really? On what authority do you make this claim?

The Bible doesn’t say this. Does the Quran?
The Bible does, though, say that if any of these claims are false, that person is a false prophet. I do believe that your beliefs excuse contradictory teachings, though. And THAT is contradictory to Biblical teachings.

Visions are possible. Even a non-prophet can have vision or revelation (Wahi), like did the mother of Moses and mother of Jesus. But they cannot be prophets or prophetesses due to a one or two revelations . Even the disciples of Jesus were given revelation (Wahi). That is written in the Quran.

But to be a prophet, one has to have many words of revelation, not just a few. There was no prophet or messenger between Jesus and Muhammad

That’s not what St. Paul says. Nor St. Luke. Nor St. John.

We Muslims had many saints of high calibre. They received Wahi too, that is well after Muhammad. But none of them was a prophet because the quantity and the quality of their Wahi was not much. One example is the Syed Abdul Qadir Geelani.

Good for you.

We need not define the word prophet the way we like. That is true. But we should have some idea of the word prophet by now because there have been many prophets in the world who were sent to many nations. Specially those who were sent to the children of Abraham are well know to most of us.

Right. And among them were Jesus’ Apostles.

I know that the christians have their own standard of judging the prophets and they deny the prophethood of some Israeli prophets. They have no right to do that. I can prove their mistake.

I don’t know what you’re talking about here.

For example, christians do not agree that Noah or Sulaiman or David were prophets.

Really? Says who?

I have tried to define one aspect of the prophets above. That helps us to know that there was no prophet soon after Jesus…

No, it doesn’t. Making up artificial restrictions isn’t any way to find truth.

Prophet is a one who receives words from God in great number and those words come true.

Repeating a falsehood in great number doesn’t make the claim true.

What is the use of the words “All food is clean?” Can it be from God?? How can it come true??

By coming from God.

 

[Reuben_J]

I would prefer wine. Beer makes me drowsy; it’s a physiology thing I suppose. It’s a blessing in disguise because when I drink I will not come to a point where I get drunk. You miss out in social niceties though. But wine would be just fine. Again can’t hold it too much. And that’s about it with me – a little of them. Gladly I am not impaired by this activity and I suppose it is OK with the Lord. If not I would ask for his forgiveness and would count on his mercy to pour his Holy Spirit upon me to strengthen me against all vice.

 

[seraphime2008]

Jesus said the right thing. We understand it. But you take wrong meanings of things. To allow you eating the flesh of swine there should have been an explicit order or permission in clear words. you cannot use a few words said in specail context to start eating pig food.

Say who? Say Planten! It’s so obvious God stated it Himself and now you place your self above God? You’re now acting on blasphemy! Please repent your self!!!

I do not believe that any one did what Jesus himself did. Of course the disciples were supported (aided) by the holy spirit as was Jesus aided (guided) by the holy spirit.

Oh yeach? Now you’re amazed that these Apostles can perform miracle. Open your Bible! Read the Acts! Those miracles were reported there! Jesus is indeed God, so He bestowed His power to His disciples in order for them to continue working on His behalf!
This is just one example (KJV):

4And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
5And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
6Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
7And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
8And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
9Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
10Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
11Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

I believe you must think that this is really awesome!!!…
But then again, the point is that these Apostles were taking on behalf of Jesus when they declared that all food are permissible, since they’ve shown the SIGNS!!!

you are wandering in wrong, useless fields. Sword also does not work without proper spiritual guidance. Your Roman catholic soldiers had the helmets and the swords too. But did it work against the Muslim forces. The Romans, christian forces failed at every place.

You better learn more about history Planten! If Christian forces had all failed, Europe must have been already muslim continent by now, thanks God, He forbid that to happen. And btw, why those pagan Genghis Khan without the blessing of Allah, susccesfully conquered Islamic colonial area?

Do not try. Our Saints did better miracles than any of yours. Yours were mostly hiding in caves for 300 years.

Oh…really?Any witness? Are your saints already in heaven? And what can they do for you now? Anything that can help you out?

You are all a great variety. I have personally seen many Catholics here who do not believe that david was a prophet. Some do not believe that Jesus was a prophet. How can we discuss things with any of you?? Do you believe that God talked to all nations,God talked to non istaeli nations?? I hope not. Do you believe that there were prophets amongst non-Israeli people??

Jesus is God, King of King, Prophets above all other prophets! Yes God had talked to all people through His Apostles, His prophets, His appointed people, that they all have the same message of Love! Even up till now!

 

[LittleSoldier]

Planten, the wording of some of your posts has confused me. In order to clear up that confusion, would you please answer the following questions:

Is the Holy Spirit God?
Is Jesus God?

Thank you.

Ooops, I just saw that Planten is no longer with us.

I will leave the questions for any other Muslim to answer (of course only if he wants to).

 

[LittleSoldier]

Hi to everyone. I’m making a general announcement in the threads I am participating in. My health has deteriorated to the point where I can no longer participate in the forums.

I apologize for leaving any questions asked of me and points presented to me unanswered.

I do have one request: Please pray for the safety of all unborn children.

Thanks, guys. It’s been wonderful being here and I’ve enjoyed it, learned much, and my faith has been strengthened.

May God bring us all peace…

christina

 

[jakasaki]

Hi to everyone. I’m making a general announcement in the threads I am participating in. My health has deteriorated to the point where I can no longer participate in the forums.

I apologize for leaving any questions asked of me and points presented to me unanswered.

I do have one request: Please pray for the safety of all unborn children.

Thanks, guys. It’s been wonderful being here and I’ve enjoyed it, learned much, and my faith has been strengthened.

May God bring us all peace…

christina

I’ll miss you Christina… very much! Take care of yourself.

Your health is more important than anything else. Be well my dear friend. I enjoyed your posts here very much so!

Best regards
Pam

 

[Jay53]

I’ll miss you Christina… very much! Take care of yourself.

Your health is more important than anything else. Be well my dear friend. I enjoyed your posts here very much so!

Best regards
Pam

Ditto!

 

[Reuben_J]

Hi to everyone. I’m making a general announcement in the threads I am participating in. My health has deteriorated to the point where I can no longer participate in the forums.

I apologize for leaving any questions asked of me and points presented to me unanswered.

I do have one request: Please pray for the safety of all unborn children.

Thanks, guys. It’s been wonderful being here and I’ve enjoyed it, learned much, and my faith has been strengthened.

May God bring us all peace…

christina

May
"The LORD bless you and keep you;
the LORD make his face shine upon you and be gracious to you;
the LORD turn his face toward you and give you peace."
** Numbers 6:24-26**

Jesus loves and heals you.

 

[dzheremi]

I will pray for your health, Christina. God be with you.

 

[seraphime2008]

Hi to everyone. I’m making a general announcement in the threads I am participating in. My health has deteriorated to the point where I can no longer participate in the forums.

I apologize for leaving any questions asked of me and points presented to me unanswered.

I do have one request: Please pray for the safety of all unborn children.

Thanks, guys. It’s been wonderful being here and I’ve enjoyed it, learned much, and my faith has been strengthened.

May God bring us all peace…

christina

I’m going to miss u Christina,
I know many of us suffer a lot in this worldly life
May God give you courage and strength
His Blood will cover you with peace and blessing
That you may gain your health again

in Christ