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Califman831
Guest
thanks for the band name, will look it up on itunes
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joshrp
Guest
Yea, it’s pretty misguided. Christian music should be beautiful, and that is not what this stuff is. They have a distorted conception of what beauty is. And some of them just might be pretending to keep Christians and are trying to draw people into Satanic music. It could be the opposite of evangelization. They are trying to attract Christians into ugliness and sin.
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joshrp
Guest
Don’t play chords then. Play something that uses polyphony, or just a melody of single notes. You don’t have to quit music just because you can’t play bar chords.
But this is just a suggestion. I’ve been discouraged about playing music for the same reasons. I’m going to start trying again this semester of college. I am taking a piano course this fall.
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WoundedIcon
Guest
You do realize that there are plenty of pretty things that are Satanic to the core, right? And when we talk about modern Christian music I find CCM and such to be pablum - naive, opiate-like music that does nothing but entice people with feelings of comfort and simplemindedness. It’s terrible art and an insult to God, and is partly responsible for turning our faith into an effeminate and babyish sentimentality that makes anyone on the outside looking in either want to laugh at our mediocrity or scream - as opposed to the manliness, strength, excellence, exquisiteness and wisdom of traditional things. Yes, I listen to metal for the same reason I want Gregorian chant back at our masses - depth and artistic excellence.
And honestly, you think there’s some conspiracy theory to destroy Christianity by these artists? Their music is more in line with a Biblical style of art than most! God used to be strong, now He has long hair and big glassy eyes. Ugh. And anyways, like anyone would fake being Christian in such an anti-establishment scene as metal! Less money, less recognition, and people mocking you to Hell and back.
It’s ugly, and so is a huge amount of the Bible, but I didn’t see God site Isaiah as some horrible sinner because he wrote about peoples’ heads on fire! Or St. John wrote about birds picking the flesh off of the corpses of the wicked, and that was at Jesus behest! Why does everything have to be cute to be holy?
Excuse my low level of charitableness here, but I’m am just so sick of the modern Christian subculture. I will never belong there, seeing as I’ve been through hell in my life and am eccentric, and also as a more traditional individual I see a “pretty=holy, comfort=blessing, love=friendliness” attitude as EXTREMELY dangerous, satanic, and destructive to the faith and well being of its followers.
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Joe_5859
Guest
So you don’t listen to a lot of Christian metal, huh?
I think it’s a bit presumptuous to say that they are only “pretending” to be Christian in some sort of insidious plot to lure people to Satan. It is a good habit to presume good will on the part of those we disagree with else we will never understand them. Even the Pope agrees with that in the foreword to his great book Jesus of Nazareth:
“I would only ask my readers for that initial goodwill without which there can be no understanding.” -p. xxiv
So we shouldn’t assume that the only reason someone could possibly be interested in composing Christian metal is because they aren’t really Christian to begin with. Unless God has granted us the supernatural gift of reading people’s hearts, that’s simply not an assessment we can make.
Perhaps I can only speak for myself. I fully believe and accept all that the Catholic Church teaches and believes to be true. But I still like Christian metal and – yes – I actually find it to be quite beautiful (if I didn’t, I wouldn’t listen to it). Take a listen to Theocracy’s 23 minute epic Mirror of Souls. Now that’s beauty.
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Joe_5859
Guest
So true!
On one of the online stores I buy CDs from, the owner/operator posts reviews of the albums and he recommends Saviour Machine in spite of their Christian lyrics because the music is that impressive to him. Christian metal is a niche market in what is already a niche market. The guys from Theocracy have regular 40 hour/week day jobs. That’s why it takes them so long to put together an album.I think you bring up an important point that “beauty” does not necessarily equal “pretty”. Depictions of the crucifixion aren’t pretty, but they sure are beautiful. At least, they are beautiful to me who recognizes in them my salvation.
Peter Kreeft’s endorsement of Michael D. O’Brien’s novel Strangers and Sojourners has always stuck with me. Kreeft writes:
“No novel since Dostoyevsky has nourished my sould like Strangers and Sojourners. This book will break your heart, and it will open your eyes to see why your heart needs to be broken.”
Metal music can be like that sometimes (at least for me). Not all art is about instilling a person with warm fuzzies.
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Scourgeblade777
Guest
My position on the morality of Christian Metal: I think it’s okay and awesome; I think it’s morally acceptable.
Yes, there are some ppl who have Christian lyrics and have brutal vocals and are hypocrites (like the band The Crimson Armada), but generally, they seem to have very Christian messages.
To me, death growls aren’t such a bad thing (besides the name; I just call em’ growls or eradicated death growls “dying He destroyed our death”; hence, eradicated death growls]); I also think Black Metal screeches, hard/metalcore mid vocals, Deathcore half-growls, and any other kinds of abrasive screaming isn’t bad or evil just cause they sound scary to some (or more likely most) people. I think it depends on the words that are vocalized. I think that screaming vocals are completely natural, (meaning God allowed us to have it and use it for good), because it seems like a natural process that our vocal chords can perform (with proper technique). Sadly, screaming music of all kinds started out with anti-Christian messages, but it doesn’t have to keep being that way, and due to Christian rock/metal movements, screaming music is no longer all about satanically inspired filth about promiscuity, death, etc.
I think (from experience) that most people are scared and/or creeped out by screaming music, especially growls and screeches, but that doesn’t mean it’s bad. Personally, I find Justin Beiber’s incredibly high male voice to be creepy (me being a Catholic Metalhead), but it doesn’t mean it’s bad or evil. I mean, the Christian (Eradicated) Death Metal band Mortification got me off evil metal stuff; they prevented me from listening to secular death metal for fun, (I only listen to compare their sounds to Christian bands, and I find Christian bands to have better rhythm), and it’s front man Steve Rowe is a real Christian, (check out his lyrics on his first 3 albums; they’re real Christian stuff, especially “Satan’s Doom,” “Terminate Damnation,” and “Brutal Warfare”), who has suffered death threats from satanist black metal heads just for being a big force in the Christian Extreme metal scene; that shows love for Christ to me.
Also, some ppl, no matter what they’re religious views are, find growls, screeches, etc. to be demonic, but, how can one say so. I mean, not a lot of people have actually heard a real life demon talk through a possessed person (God forbid anyone has to). I mean, I’ve heard that possessed people talk in other voices, but not a lot of people know exactly how they sound. I don’t really know if they growl at the exorcists in death metal style. Also, (I know this will sound radical to some), if the demon sounds like they’re death growling, maybe they’r manipulating the possessed person’s vocal chords to sound that way, which otherwise would be perfectly normal if the person did it one their own (just a speculation, plz don’t freak out).
To me, really extreme Christian metal is great stuff; For example, I think if I loved a woman, I would express it with screaming vocals, cuz in my opinion, Pure True Love is the most Brutal thing in existance; I mean, look what it did to Jesus. If ur gonna love someone, u gotta prove it with suffering. I think death metal/grindcore type stuff is great for expressing this kind of love, or any kind of love (I’m not saying the songs are gory descriptions of people suffering for others; I mean, the lyrics make a point that love takes sacrifice). I’m creating a genre that I call Catholic Brutal Symphonic Thrashy Eradicated Death Metal, and it has various screaming vocals and I’m trying to make it really aggressive, and my lyrics are about Chastity, Sacrificial love, anti-lust topics, spiritual warcries, Marital love, contrition (I call that song “Kill my Sin”), anti-pornography, Divine love, and stuff like that. I find it easier to express these things in really heavy music, and I think so because God made me like that with his eternal wisdom and creativity. In fact, I pray a rosary every day to help me wid guitar and screaming and finding Catholic metalheads who wanna’ praise God as heavy as possible (it’s working for the most part with all these things, besides the latter one, but I’m still a teen who has school to deal with, so I don’t need to have people right now).
GOD bless yall!
Yes, there are some ppl who have Christian lyrics and have brutal vocals and are hypocrites (like the band The Crimson Armada), but generally, they seem to have very Christian messages.
To me, death growls aren’t such a bad thing (besides the name; I just call em’ growls or eradicated death growls “dying He destroyed our death”; hence, eradicated death growls]); I also think Black Metal screeches, hard/metalcore mid vocals, Deathcore half-growls, and any other kinds of abrasive screaming isn’t bad or evil just cause they sound scary to some (or more likely most) people. I think it depends on the words that are vocalized. I think that screaming vocals are completely natural, (meaning God allowed us to have it and use it for good), because it seems like a natural process that our vocal chords can perform (with proper technique). Sadly, screaming music of all kinds started out with anti-Christian messages, but it doesn’t have to keep being that way, and due to Christian rock/metal movements, screaming music is no longer all about satanically inspired filth about promiscuity, death, etc.
I think (from experience) that most people are scared and/or creeped out by screaming music, especially growls and screeches, but that doesn’t mean it’s bad. Personally, I find Justin Beiber’s incredibly high male voice to be creepy (me being a Catholic Metalhead), but it doesn’t mean it’s bad or evil. I mean, the Christian (Eradicated) Death Metal band Mortification got me off evil metal stuff; they prevented me from listening to secular death metal for fun, (I only listen to compare their sounds to Christian bands, and I find Christian bands to have better rhythm), and it’s front man Steve Rowe is a real Christian, (check out his lyrics on his first 3 albums; they’re real Christian stuff, especially “Satan’s Doom,” “Terminate Damnation,” and “Brutal Warfare”), who has suffered death threats from satanist black metal heads just for being a big force in the Christian Extreme metal scene; that shows love for Christ to me.
Also, some ppl, no matter what they’re religious views are, find growls, screeches, etc. to be demonic, but, how can one say so. I mean, not a lot of people have actually heard a real life demon talk through a possessed person (God forbid anyone has to). I mean, I’ve heard that possessed people talk in other voices, but not a lot of people know exactly how they sound. I don’t really know if they growl at the exorcists in death metal style. Also, (I know this will sound radical to some), if the demon sounds like they’re death growling, maybe they’r manipulating the possessed person’s vocal chords to sound that way, which otherwise would be perfectly normal if the person did it one their own (just a speculation, plz don’t freak out).
To me, really extreme Christian metal is great stuff; For example, I think if I loved a woman, I would express it with screaming vocals, cuz in my opinion, Pure True Love is the most Brutal thing in existance; I mean, look what it did to Jesus. If ur gonna love someone, u gotta prove it with suffering. I think death metal/grindcore type stuff is great for expressing this kind of love, or any kind of love (I’m not saying the songs are gory descriptions of people suffering for others; I mean, the lyrics make a point that love takes sacrifice). I’m creating a genre that I call Catholic Brutal Symphonic Thrashy Eradicated Death Metal, and it has various screaming vocals and I’m trying to make it really aggressive, and my lyrics are about Chastity, Sacrificial love, anti-lust topics, spiritual warcries, Marital love, contrition (I call that song “Kill my Sin”), anti-pornography, Divine love, and stuff like that. I find it easier to express these things in really heavy music, and I think so because God made me like that with his eternal wisdom and creativity. In fact, I pray a rosary every day to help me wid guitar and screaming and finding Catholic metalheads who wanna’ praise God as heavy as possible (it’s working for the most part with all these things, besides the latter one, but I’m still a teen who has school to deal with, so I don’t need to have people right now).
GOD bless yall!
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Bryan77
Guest
I think this is an interesting debate. You make some really great points Scourgeblade777
I’m surprised that when we say “metal” we are only talking about the kind with growls and screams. While I like listening to death metal at times, There’s also plenty of metal that doesn’t use harsh vocals. Namely Power Metal (I noticed someone mentioned Theocracy, and even Stryper earlier) They are metal but use clean vocals. Often even falsetto.
While I believe there’s nothing wrong with growling, I understand how some people can come to the conclusion that it represents evil. Why not play it up? It can be used to great effect.
DivineFire is a Christian Power Metal band that uses all clean voices. However, in this song the lyrics sing about a confused man in despair. Before the chorus there is a demon (growling) trying to instill doubt in the man, and tell him that there is no God, and that he should only believe in himself. Then in response the chorus is the man (clean) praying to God for help. It’s a really beautiful song.
youtube.com/watch?v=Wo2WG0UecyE
I’m surprised that when we say “metal” we are only talking about the kind with growls and screams. While I like listening to death metal at times, There’s also plenty of metal that doesn’t use harsh vocals. Namely Power Metal (I noticed someone mentioned Theocracy, and even Stryper earlier) They are metal but use clean vocals. Often even falsetto.
While I believe there’s nothing wrong with growling, I understand how some people can come to the conclusion that it represents evil. Why not play it up? It can be used to great effect.
DivineFire is a Christian Power Metal band that uses all clean voices. However, in this song the lyrics sing about a confused man in despair. Before the chorus there is a demon (growling) trying to instill doubt in the man, and tell him that there is no God, and that he should only believe in himself. Then in response the chorus is the man (clean) praying to God for help. It’s a really beautiful song.
youtube.com/watch?v=Wo2WG0UecyE
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Joe_5859
Guest
I love that song. I’ve never been a fan of the growling school of vocals, but I think Divinefire uses them in exactly the right way. To me, growling vocals are like pepper: best when used sparingly to enhance the flavor already present.
Ayreon (though they’re not Christian) is another band that I think uses the growls very well.
If you’re interested, someone started up a Christian rock/metal “group” here on CAF:
forums.catholic-questions.org/group.php?groupid=1190
We have enough members to have our own forum, though it hasn’t had that much activity just yet.
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E_7
Guest
I love all kinds of metal except black metal.
I can give u a list of great Christian bands like those u mentioned (DWP, Demon Hunter) that I listen to.
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Mortification
Guest
I didn’t really read through any of the previous posts so I don’t know if these have been mentioned or not (sorry), but I recommend the following…
Christian Death Metal:
Mortification - Scrolls of the Megilloth
Mortification - self-titled
Christian Heavy Metal:
Stryper - Soldiers Under Command
Stryper - To Hell With the Devil
Cage - Darker Than Black
Cage - Hell Destroyer (These guys really rule. They sound a lot like Judas Priest and are pretty extreme heavy/power metal band. All the dudes are like bodybuilders too lol)
Christian Thrash Metal:
Living Sacrifice - Nonexistent
Living Sacrifice - Inhabit
Vengeance Rising - Human Sacrifice
Extol - Burial
Christian Unblack Metal:
Horde - Hellig Usvart (ties to Mortification)
Antestor - The Defeat of Satan (demo)
Antestor - Martyrium
Crush Evil (pre-Antestor)
I’d like to know more Christian Unblack and death metal bands. Please make suggestions if you know any more! I just recently got rid of 50+ CDs that were in my collection, so I’m trying to fill the void with good non-blasphemous bands.
Christian Death Metal:
Mortification - Scrolls of the Megilloth
Mortification - self-titled
Christian Heavy Metal:
Stryper - Soldiers Under Command
Stryper - To Hell With the Devil
Cage - Darker Than Black
Cage - Hell Destroyer (These guys really rule. They sound a lot like Judas Priest and are pretty extreme heavy/power metal band. All the dudes are like bodybuilders too lol)
Christian Thrash Metal:
Living Sacrifice - Nonexistent
Living Sacrifice - Inhabit
Vengeance Rising - Human Sacrifice
Extol - Burial
Christian Unblack Metal:
Horde - Hellig Usvart (ties to Mortification)
Antestor - The Defeat of Satan (demo)
Antestor - Martyrium
Crush Evil (pre-Antestor)
I’d like to know more Christian Unblack and death metal bands. Please make suggestions if you know any more! I just recently got rid of 50+ CDs that were in my collection, so I’m trying to fill the void with good non-blasphemous bands.
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Bryan77
Guest
Ayreon is great! I get lost in their songs sometimes.
I haven’t heard of Cage. They’re awesome! Another great Christian Power Metal band is “Seventh Avenue” They have kind of a similar sound.
Do you know of any christian bands (or even christian friendly) that sound similar to Dimmu Borgir? I really like the epic dark symphonic feel. I don’t really care for the black metal that is really distorted, and dry. It’s like the only good one (that I have found) is evil. Therefore I don’t listen to it. I feel bad for them. They are very talented musicians, but are using their gift for the wrong purpose.
I haven’t heard of Cage. They’re awesome! Another great Christian Power Metal band is “Seventh Avenue” They have kind of a similar sound.
Do you know of any christian bands (or even christian friendly) that sound similar to Dimmu Borgir? I really like the epic dark symphonic feel. I don’t really care for the black metal that is really distorted, and dry. It’s like the only good one (that I have found) is evil. Therefore I don’t listen to it. I feel bad for them. They are very talented musicians, but are using their gift for the wrong purpose.
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Mortification
Guest
I believe one of the members of Dimmu Borgir produced a Christian Unblackmetal band’s album. Id look up their name but Im at work at the moment, Ill post it later if someone doesnt beat me to it.
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WoundedIcon
Guest
There are a lot more, but these are off the top of my head.
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WoundedIcon
Guest
Unfortunately, that’s the one sound that isn’t present in Christian Unblack. Sucks too, cuz I love it. Sounds so… Catholicky.
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Mortification
Guest
Certainly not the Crimson Moon from California? They definitely are not Christian lol. I assume youre referring to another band by the same name.
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Bryan77
Guest
@Mortification Doesn’t that seem a little hypocritical for someone in such a blatant satanic band to be producing a christian record?
@WoundedIcon “Catholicky” I never really thought about it that way. Music with chanting choirs do have kind of a churchy feel. However, I would argue that bands like Dimmu Borgir do this on purpose, but with the intent on perverting it.
It’s a shame though, because that sound is amazing. I can imagine how that dark epic choir filled music with high pitched vocals can be used for good, and play up the darkness in such a way that the world is in darkness, and we are fighting it. Darkness being the enemy here. (Maybe I’m thinking a little deep here)
Actually, how can I have forgotten about Renascent? They have a very dark sound, with some symphonic elements to it. And they’re Christian! I would actually consider them Melodic Death Metal rather than Black Metal though.
@WoundedIcon “Catholicky” I never really thought about it that way. Music with chanting choirs do have kind of a churchy feel. However, I would argue that bands like Dimmu Borgir do this on purpose, but with the intent on perverting it.
It’s a shame though, because that sound is amazing. I can imagine how that dark epic choir filled music with high pitched vocals can be used for good, and play up the darkness in such a way that the world is in darkness, and we are fighting it. Darkness being the enemy here. (Maybe I’m thinking a little deep here)
Actually, how can I have forgotten about Renascent? They have a very dark sound, with some symphonic elements to it. And they’re Christian! I would actually consider them Melodic Death Metal rather than Black Metal though.
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Mortification
Guest
@Bryan, it sure does. Perhaps theres some alterior motive as a way of infiltrating the Christian Unblack scene? I dont know. Hellhammer also played drums on one of Antestor’s albums, even though the band he was in before (and still is in) sought to ruin and disband them.
If youre referring to the clean singing parts on For All Tid, thats more of a folk style way of singing. Dimmu Borgir are also really proud of their heritage, so it may be kind of a nod to that, too.
I also agree that a Christian metal band can have a very dark sound. As Christians, we are no strangers to persecution. The world is far from perfect and Im sure we experience feelings that are dark and dreary as well. To me that just makes it all the more real for me, it reflects the reality of the world we live in. These strong emotions actually empower me and lift me up (kind of ironic).
If youre referring to the clean singing parts on For All Tid, thats more of a folk style way of singing. Dimmu Borgir are also really proud of their heritage, so it may be kind of a nod to that, too.
I also agree that a Christian metal band can have a very dark sound. As Christians, we are no strangers to persecution. The world is far from perfect and Im sure we experience feelings that are dark and dreary as well. To me that just makes it all the more real for me, it reflects the reality of the world we live in. These strong emotions actually empower me and lift me up (kind of ironic).
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WoundedIcon
Guest
Nah, the Crimson Moonlight I’m referring to is from Sweden I believe. Blackened Death now, but with symphonic roots. More atmospheric than Dimmu-y though. And on some of Dimmu’s albums they do use choirs, and sometimes they sing in Latin. I think…
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Mortification
Guest
Ahh, it didnt say Moonlight in your original post, just Moon.
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