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eucharisteo
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Any body out there with this background? Anything to help me understand what they believe would be helpful. Closure issues. Someone likened it to Old Time Methodist, which I’m still clueless to.
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gurneyhalleck1
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There’s a Christian Missionary Alliance in my town and they’re NUTS! I had a girl in my classroom from that cult and I’ll tell you, the parents were just loony. They had the girl pulled out of my room because I supposedly “wouldn’t let her witness her faith to other students or write about it all in her reading journal.” The interesting thing was, I never once said any of those things or gave her that vibe at all. They don’t let their daughter go anywhere, do anything, think anything, and they think teachers are all out to brainwash their daughter into evolution and sin. They wouldn’t let her go to the science camp up in the foothills because the camp was “not a safe Christian envrionment.” They are both the most miserable people, never happy, always grouchy. They talk to you saying, “well, yeah, we’ve been doing fine, thanks to Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ!” or “yeah, I got three furlough days a month but thanks to my faith in my Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ I’ll manage.” They wear it on their sleeves. I know the sister of one of the parents; she’s Catholic and they treat her like a parriah, scum. They tell the niece and nephew that Catholics are statue-worshippers who go to hell.
So that’s my one experience with the Christian Missionary Alliance, that couple. And if they represent that group in even the smallest way, keep 'em far away from yours truly! Since that girl left my class, my stress is GOOONNNNE. Praise God for the move!
I think they’re some kind of Assembly of God or Pentecostal type bunch but I’m not sure. I’m surprised they don’t have a compound in our town…
So that’s my one experience with the Christian Missionary Alliance, that couple. And if they represent that group in even the smallest way, keep 'em far away from yours truly! Since that girl left my class, my stress is GOOONNNNE. Praise God for the move!
I think they’re some kind of Assembly of God or Pentecostal type bunch but I’m not sure. I’m surprised they don’t have a compound in our town…
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eucharisteo
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That’s what I thought. That’s my mom’s family and they are 2.5 times the size of my dad’s side of the family. That is why I avoid my mom’s family and what I suspected. They always treated me like a virus. They never seem to be happy about anything and gossip more than anyone I’ve ever met. My wife’s family are all Church of Christ and many of them have similar beliefs about us. Not all, but some. I was exposed to this group in elementary school and that is why I fell prey to their antics after a bad experience in the Catholic Church. But history brought me back home. I always tried to follow my conscience. But in a world determined to mock God I could never figure out what was what. I try to warn people against mixed marriages in faiths that believe such false accusations without understanding the real historical facts and that the Church is filled with sinners.
No wonder I was so messed up in my faith growing up. It took the death of my mom and dad to finally figure things out. Had they set good examples for me I might have figured it out earlier.
No wonder I was so messed up in my faith growing up. It took the death of my mom and dad to finally figure things out. Had they set good examples for me I might have figured it out earlier.
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Contarini
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They’re really not “Old Time Methodists,” though probably their greatest pastor/theologian, A. W. Tozer, could be described that way.
The CMA originated around the turn of the 20th century as part of the broad “holiness” movement. The Holiness movement originated in the 19th century within Methodism (that’s the “Old Time Methodist” connection), but quickly spread beyond Methodism in a somewhat mutated form. This broader “holiness” or “deeper life” movement (often linked to the Keswick Convention in England, which is still going on today) taught that through consecrating yourself entirely to God you could receive a fuller measure of the Holy Spirit and be enabled to live a “victorious” Christian life. This teaching deeply influenced British and American evangelicalism across the board. But there were certain denominations that basically originated around this teaching, and the CMA was one. Like so many Protestant denominations, the CMA didn’t set out to be a denomination. The founder, A.B. Simpson, was a Presbyterian minister if I remember correctly, and originally just wanted to establish a network of Christians who were committed to the deeper Christian life and to missionary work. But in the end they became a separate denomination. The distinctive CMA teaching was the “Fourfold Gospel,” emphasizing four aspects of Christ’s work: Savior, Sanctifier, Healer, and Coming King. In other words, they believe in the standard evangelical doctrine of salvation, plus a broadly “holiness” doctrine of sanctification, plus the possibility divine healing today, plus a premillennial eschatology. A lot of CMA teaching sounds very similar to Pentecostalism, but Simpson did not accept the Pentecostal teaching about the gift of tongues. So the CMA are sort of like the AoG without tongues-speaking, if you can imagine that!
Today I would describe them as more or less generic evangelicals. GurneyHalleck’s description of this particular couple sounds like typical conservative evangelical behavior. Certainly not all CMA folks are like that, and this is by no means unique to the CMA. There’s a very unusual CMA congregation in my town, where many of my students attend, which I described to someone yesterday as people who swear and drink and love Jesus (not entirely fair, but they aren’t your typical conservative evangelicals). The CMA tend to have a fairly contemporary worship style, in my experience, and to be very open to anything that will help them evangelize.
I should add that my experience with the CMA is based largely on two sources: the CMA congregations near me in East Tennessee growing up, which stood out by their more contemporary evangelical style in contrast to the old-fashioned fundamentalism of many other churches in the area, and this very weird congregation in my present home town. My wife’s perceptions of them are closer to gurneyhalleck’s–her grandmother was CMA growing up, and many in her family thought she had backslidden hopelessly when she married a Methodist minister (even though he was a very conservative one). I think the CMA has changed a lot over the years (my wife doesn’t have current experience with them), but I won’t claim that my experience is representative.
I do want to put in a plug for Tozer, though (I respect Simpson very much as well). He’s one of the greatest evangelical “popular theologians” of the 20th century. Self-educated, widely read, and deeply respectful of patristic and medieval Christianity. His book *The Knowledge of the Holy *is basically a popularization of Augustine and Anselm, and he frequently acknowledged a great debt to medieval mystics such as Bernard of Clairvaux and Julian of Norwich. He edited a book called Christian Mystical Verse which includes a lot of Catholic poetry (which bothers some of Tozer’s more fundamentalist admirers).
Edwin
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eucharisteo
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Your clarification really explains a lot of what I didn’t understand before. Mome did not bring us up in that faith. She seemed to bring us to Methodist churches, maybe Presbyterian, but later on when was 9 and 10 she allowed me to visit the Church of Christ, pretty big where your at in Tennessee. My grandmother had very long hair and always kept it up in a bun. I really don’t know how faithful my aunts and uncles are to this day because distance seemed to be the best policy for me growing up. They were relentless in things they said about my Catholic faith after I became Catholic. Before I was practicing Catholicism when my dad finally stepped up to the plate I remember lots of anti-Catholic rhetoric, from where I believe I gathered much of my misinformation and false ideas. Once someone plants that in you it takes a life time of learning and experience to root out. After I left for 18 years to the Church of Christ again, I was running from bad example priests and Catholics that didn’t practice their faith. The onces that acted like they did were hypocrites which I dubbed most if not all Catholics as hypocrites, forked tongued ones. Most of them are no longer practicing Catholicism but are in other religions now, Assembly of God mostly. Even an aunt the vehemently proclaims she’s as Catholic as they get, rejects Church authority and lots of Catholic teachings. She believes in the rapture and all that Assembly of God beliefs. The only Catholic we could find to stand in as godparent to our children believes in freedom of choice and contraception and carries on about the pope. I really didn’t know this but later found an old seminary friend of mine that is now a vocation director and he is standing in as godfather now. Wonderful man.
Little girl wants her muffins now. Gotta go.
Little girl wants her muffins now. Gotta go.
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gurneyhalleck1
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I have had similar experiences with “Church of Christ.” I had a best friend all through high school and college who was deeply involved in that bunch. He worked and worked through high school to get me to join the youth group at his church and de-Catholicize me. My other friend who knew him said that when I was around he’d TRASH Catholics with the typical idolatry, pagan-trapping, un-Christian scum arguments. He had NO knowledge of church history, just a bible and some brain-washin’. When I became an Anglican after we graduated he was happy because he felt ‘at least it’s a step in the right direction.’ LOL They don’t celebrate Christmas, Easter, Lent, Advent, etc. They don’t allow instruments in church, they’re a trip…
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Nine_Two
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I find these experiences interesting. I’ve met two people from C&MA. One was a promanent politician in a public setting, so we can probably discount that meeting since he would be someone who knows how to act in public.
The other was a Pastor, and he generally seemed quite sane (quirky sense of humour though).
However I’ve met enough people from that side of the protestant spectrum to know that there are a number of people who aren’t very well balanced, and by virtue of being a Catholic they will see you as an enemy.
The other was a Pastor, and he generally seemed quite sane (quirky sense of humour though).
However I’ve met enough people from that side of the protestant spectrum to know that there are a number of people who aren’t very well balanced, and by virtue of being a Catholic they will see you as an enemy.
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Publisher
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Alliance churches are very similar to Free Methodists and Nazarenes. When I was a kid…many moons ago…there was an Alliance church up the street from us. My parents were Nazarenes and we didn’t live within walking distance to a Nazarene church…one day some people came by advertizing the Vacation Bible School for a week in July…my mom thought that would be just the ticket to get me and my brother out of her hair for a week during the summer…I saw the word “school” and was really distressed we’d have to go to “school” wheen I was on summer vacation…it was one of the best times I had as a kid…going to the Christian & Missionary Alliance vacation Bible school…went back every year until we moved across town.
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Zooey
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What Contarini said.
I really, really like Tozer, too.
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Zooey
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Yeah, that’s the holiness connection. Although, I have to say, neither CMA or COTN seemed as strict about insert miscellaneous idea of your choice] as Free Methodists, but then, I never attended either one either. Except for Youth For Christ meetings as a teennager…
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eucharisteo
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VBS is great fun for kids and the adults. My wife and I helped out at VBS.
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Publisher
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I know that modern Nazarenes are pretty “lax” in some areas…forty-five years ago however when I was a kid however, Nazarenes were pretty strict…
*No movie theaters
*No circus
*No dancing…my parents sent a note to my school when I was in Jr.High that I was to be exempted from dance class when PE use to have modern dance classes as part of the PE cirriculum
*No tobacco
*No alcohol
*No buying or selling on Sunday
*Women were to wear no jewelery other than their wedding band and a plain unadorned watch…no ear rings and minimal make-up IF ANY
*Men could wear a plain unadorned watch and wedding band.
*No cussing
*Divorce was forbidden for any reason
*No mixed bathing…no boys and girls, men or women swimming together unless related by marriage or family.
*No sex education in school…I was exempted on religious grounds from sex ed as well.
*No low cut or dresses above the knee.
*No long hair for men…must be above the collar
*No one could teach or serve in the church unless they were full tithers.
Things have changed quite a bit in two and a half decades.
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gurneyhalleck1
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So let me get this straight—the key word is “no?” 
That would be a great Nazarene CAF screen name: Dr. No
That would be a great Nazarene CAF screen name: Dr. No
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Cat
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Fightin’ words, people. You have touched a very, very tender nerve in me.
My husband and I and our two daughters LOVED our Christian and Missionary Alliance Church in Raleigh, North Carolina. We loved the pastors, we loved the people, we loved everything about that church. I’m almost crying now thinking about that church and how much we loved it.
Yes, I’m Catholic now and I love Holy Mother Church, but that doesn’t mean that I have stopped loving my C and MA friends.
I don’t have time to defend them now. Later.
My husband and I and our two daughters LOVED our Christian and Missionary Alliance Church in Raleigh, North Carolina. We loved the pastors, we loved the people, we loved everything about that church. I’m almost crying now thinking about that church and how much we loved it.
Yes, I’m Catholic now and I love Holy Mother Church, but that doesn’t mean that I have stopped loving my C and MA friends.
I don’t have time to defend them now. Later.
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eucharisteo
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Cat, I appreciate you wanting to defend, but please not here. Please give this thread to me for closure purposes. I don’t need to be drug out over the coals again. Losing my mom was the hardest thing I’ve been through next to the loss of my brother.
Mom’s family may not have been the wonderful family you came from. More power to you. My mother wrote me out of her will. She had issues. She gave it all to my playboy little brother … 1 year younger than me. She also pushed for his girlfriend to have an abortion and had the nerve to ask us when our son was conceived if we were going to have it. I certainly don’t want to here it.
Mom’s family may not have been the wonderful family you came from. More power to you. My mother wrote me out of her will. She had issues. She gave it all to my playboy little brother … 1 year younger than me. She also pushed for his girlfriend to have an abortion and had the nerve to ask us when our son was conceived if we were going to have it. I certainly don’t want to here it.
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Cat
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I sympathize with your personal tragedies. But what does the Christian and Missionary Alliance have to do with your need to achieve closure?
Please do not encourage people to denigrate an entire Christian denomination for the sake of your needs. Surely you do not have to subject the Christian and Missionary Alliance, one of the finest of the evangelical Protestant denominations that I was ever a part of, to name-calling like “nuts” and “loony” and accusations of “cultishness” in order for you to achieve personal closure.
This is no different than when people condemn the entire Catholic Church and all its priests because they or someone they have heard of suffered sexual abuse. That’s not fair, and neither is this thread.
**What you are hearing from some of the posters is pure nonsense tantamount to slander. ** If you really want to know more about the Christian and Missionary Alliance denomination, then be fair and do it right. Visit their website and do some careful reading–http://www.cmalliance.org/
Or better–go visit a C&MA church. I guarantee that it won’t turn you away from Holy Mother Church.
In every church, including the Catholic Church, there are “fringe” people. These are the people who refuse to allow themselves to mix with others. They often dress differently, they don’t associate with “the world,” they attend their own schools (including homeschools), they forbid many of the innocent pleasures (e.g., movies, sports events, makeup, various foods, etc.), they live by a code of “rules,” and in many cases, they condemn others who do not follow their brand of Christianity.
If some of the above posters, including the OP, have met up with these “fringe” people in the Christian and Missionary Alliance, it is NOT BECAUSE THIS IS WHAT THE C&MA TEACHES!!!
*The C&MA is one of the most “balanced” of all the evangelical Protestant denominations. * There is a very strong central governming board that watches over the churches and pastors and prevents cultish teachings and practices. I have personally seen several incidents of discipline of pastors in the C&MA board, including the dismissal of pastors who do not align themselves with the C&MA doctrines and practices.
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Contarini
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Why should she (or I) do that? Don’t you think that’s a bit selfish? This forum is not primarily devoted to giving any of us closure. It’s a forum for information and dialogue. Lots of people come here to learn. Someone might well turn to this thread to learn about the CMA. Do you really think that your desire for closure is more important than making sure people get a fair and accurate picture of this particular group of Christian brothers and sisters?
I have plenty of closure issues with my own family, so I really do empathize with you. But the title of the thread is “Christian and Missionary Alliance.” You said you wanted information, but now you say that you only want a certain kind of information and anything else is out of line.
The Catholic Church teaches that not only slander but also detraction are grave sins. We can’t commit those sins or acquiesce in their being committed just to give you “closure.”
In Christ,
Edwin
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gurneyhalleck1
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Courage, eucharisteo,
I left the Episcopal Church because of a vast array of issues that I found troubling, un-Christian, and downright morally offensive. I was criticizing them when I was in TEC, when I left and went back to Catholicism, whenever I criticized TEC in here people felt I was beating up on my old denomination to feel better about myself or that I was just a mean-spirited ‘reformed-smoker’ type who gets off on trashing the people I just left. You get used to it LOL…just let it roll off… You have the right to your opinion.
I left the Episcopal Church because of a vast array of issues that I found troubling, un-Christian, and downright morally offensive. I was criticizing them when I was in TEC, when I left and went back to Catholicism, whenever I criticized TEC in here people felt I was beating up on my old denomination to feel better about myself or that I was just a mean-spirited ‘reformed-smoker’ type who gets off on trashing the people I just left. You get used to it LOL…just let it roll off…
You have the right to your opinion.Wow!.. Very charitable.
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eucharisteo
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You see I was never of that religious faith. Mom never taught us and only took us to other faiths as she was searching. She was suicidal, my brother was suicidal and my oldest brother committed suicide. I’ve have depression problems most of my life and recently I’ve been carefully trying to reconnect with my mom’s family, but frankly don’t trust them anymore after some of the things they’ve said about our Catholic faith, lies and hateful remarks. However I do understand the anger they felt when a priest told my great grandmother that their son was a bastard child. So in my family it may be combined with deep rooted hatred for Catholics in general because of the lack of charitable catechesis instructing them what was lacking for him to be able to baptize the child. My “selfishness” has a purpose and is no different than someone else starting their own thread. I chose non-Catholic thinking I’d get some response from those that identify with it and could enlighten me. I know that sometimes perceptions are influenced in ways that would take to many words to express. People have good and bad experiences based on an infinite environmental conditions. I could express it, but not on here because it would start a war with all Christians that have never been through what I’ve been through. I’ve spent the better part of my 49 years trying to figure it out, listening to God, reading “His word”, studying history, philosophy, theology, praying and always find … well that’s another thread for another day.Courage, eucharisteo,
I left the Episcopal Church because of a vast array of issues that I found troubling, un-Christian, and downright morally offensive. I was criticizing them when I was in TEC, when I left and went back to Catholicism, whenever I criticized TEC in here people felt I was beating up on my old denomination to feel better about myself or that I was just a mean-spirited ‘reformed-smoker’ type who gets off on trashing the people I just left. You get used to it LOL…just let it roll off…
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