Christian music that crosses those imaginary lines in the sand.

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My niece who was married several years ago was forbidden by her pastor to have any music in the ceremony that was not Catholic.
I assume this was a Catholic wedding, right? If so, wouldn’t that be expected? Would any person who takes their faith seriously want to have music that contradicts their faith played at a faith-oriented event? It seems like this pastor was merely being prudent, IMO.

I was the same way at my wedding, (but then again, I had a traditional Latin Mass wedding, so only Gregorian Chant and Sacred Polyphony for us there. :cool:)
 
Well, I don’t know of any particular group who says that “all religious music” must be played on the piano or organ, and when it comes to liturgical settings, there are guidelines that different churches and traditions have set forth that do not necessarily pull every detail straight from Scripture (as Scripture does not outline every single aspect of how we are do to things in such settings at all). For example, within the Latin Church, the proper Liturgical music is Gregorian Chant, but nowhere does she say that the ONLY music to be played is Gregorian Chant, only that it is to be given “pride of place”. The eastern churches have their own proper liturgical music as well, even their chants are significantly different, largely due to the fact that they come from different cultures and parts of the world.
 
It’s amazing how many times you feel the need to tell yourself that. 😃

The whole lack-of-unity among the Protestant tradition must be getting to you. 😉

❤️ Love is Patient
You are right; the lack of unity among Protestantism grieves me terribly. It is caused by modern day Protestants who have drifted from the centrality of the Scriptures in life and doctrine. Liberal Protestantism grieves me just like how liberal Catholicism probably grieves you. Orthodoxy which transforms our affection toward God in greater passion is the right way to go.
 
My niece who was married several years ago was forbidden by her pastor to have any music in the ceremony that was not Catholic.
When my wife and I were married we had a traditional Quaker wedding…except my soon to be wife wanted to have a song sang which she really liked…“Wedding Song” by Paul Stooky of Peter, Paul and Mary fame…“He is now to be among you at the calling of your hearts…” a good Quaker phrase. Some of the older more conservative Friends didn’t like it…but they had the good grace to be silent since them vocalizing their disapproval would be against Quaker disipline, especially on our “happy day”. It was mentioned at business meeting a month or two down the road…the Clerk of the Meeting stepped in and called the discussion out of order…I thanked her later.

We sometimes become so entrenched in our particular personal “traditions” and “dislikes” we quench the movement of the Holy Spirit to minister to us in various ways…I still love that song…it “speaks to my condition”…I can’t hear it sang without my eyes becoming wet and my throat tight.
 
I can’t imagine why “Amazing Grace” should come within a mile of any “imaginary line in the sand.” Even if I were the foamiest anti-Catholic imaginable, there are OCEANS of Catholic hymns, oratorios, carols, etc. (both pre- and post-Reformation) whose significance and intent I couldn’t possibly object to, and would enjoy in such good conscience that the question of whether I, a Protestant, ought to enjoy them wouldn’t even occur to me.

Unless the Protestant song in question makes a point of saying something contradictory to Catholic doctrine, I wouldn’t worry. And regardless of Catholic/Protestant polemics over the nature of justification, etc., surely no Catholic would contest that God’s grace is an astounding and praiseworthy thing worthy of enshrining in song as John Newton did, however Newton privately construed or miscontrued its operations? Although a Reformed sensibility hovers over a few stanzas, I can’t think of a single line that a Catholic couldn’t have penned (correct me if my memory/scholarship has lapsed here).
 
Are you talking about music in general, or about music in a liturgical setting?
This is a big issue that many Churches are dealing with today. I honestly like the music that is played at the Catholic Church during the kid’s school Mass. I believe that our children also like it better then the hymns that are sung at our Episcopal Church on Sundays. Honestly, how many of you have children that enjoy going to the symphony orchestra every week. I will share that I find my eyes glazing over often! A couple of weeks ago, our EYC attended a fund raiser at our local Catholic Church for their Young Adults program. It was WONDERFUL! It was a Praise and Worship band that was Catholic. Our kids left the Catholic Church wondering why we don’t have that kind of music at our Church.

By the end of the concert, if you did not feel the presence of God you must of been dead! At the sold out concert–all ages were standing and praising God together. It was neat to see the older straight arrow men with their hands uplifted to God by the end of the concert–Praise God!

Check out Matt Maher if you are looking for a fund raiser at your Catholic Church-- He is Catholic. mattmahermusic.com/

God Bless!
 
This is a big issue that many Churches are dealing with today. I honestly like the music that is played at the Catholic Church during the kid’s school Mass. I believe that our children also like it better then the hymns that are sung at our Episcopal Church on Sundays. Honestly, how many of you have children that enjoy going to the symphony orchestra every week. I will share that I find my eyes glazing over often! A couple of weeks ago, our EYC attended a fund raiser at our local Catholic Church for their Young Adults program. It was WONDERFUL! It was a Praise and Worship band that was Catholic. Our kids left the Catholic Church wondering why we don’t have that kind of music at our Church.

By the end of the concert, if you did not feel the presence of God you must of been dead! At the sold out concert–all ages were standing and praising God together. It was neat to see the older straight arrow men with their hands uplifted to God by the end of the concert–Praise God!

Check out Matt Maher if you are looking for a fund raiser at your Catholic Church-- He is Catholic. mattmahermusic.com/

God Bless!
There is a difference between what is desirable and proper at a concert and at a liturgical service. Of course everyone has their own personal likes and dislikes when it comes to music, but when it comes to the Mass (or another liturgical service) personal preference needs to be subject to what is proper.

Myself, I used to play in a rock band, and I still enjoy listening to rock (etc), when I go to jiu jitsu or when I work out, but when I come to Mass I prefer Gregorian Chant (and Sacred Polyphony). Yes, I said “I prefer”, but my preference came through a more thorough study of the reasons behind ‘why’ it is the music proper for the LATIN Rite of the Church, and I fell in love not only with the music itself, but also the REASON that particular music is used - and the fact that it is the proper song of the Mass. The Gregorian Chant is not just a song to be sung at Mass, it is the very words of the Mass in the language of the Church. Both the Ordinaries and the Propers are the exact words the priest is praying at the altar, and at a Solemn High Mass (or a Missa Cantata) the Schola and/or the congregation sings those words as well.

Most people don’t take the time (especially here in the West), nor make the effort, to get to understand why the Church gives Gregorian Chant pride of place in the Liturgy, and that is a real shame.
 
Answer me this. Where in the Bible does it say that the only type of religious music should be played with a piano or a orgin? Drums, guitars, horns, bongos, syntisisors and so on are fine but it may not be for everyone. At my church we have both a traditional worship service with old hymns and a pipe organ and our contempary worship service has the eletronic drums, base guitar, regular guitar. piano, syntisisor, different types of brass instaments, and violins and we sing secular religious songs.
In my experience, this is an unstable state of affairs that tends not to last. The “traditional worship service” becomes effectively ghettoized, and is the first thing to go if cuts are necessary.

Again, I can only draw on my personal experience here, but I find that the older music is preferred mainly by the older and the younger ends of the congregation’s age range. However, the demographic that generally runs the church still seems to suffer from some quasi-adolescent animus against what they take to be “your parents’ church music” (never mind that they’re the parents now, or even grandparents). They tend to dismiss the oldest members’ concerns, much as they bucked their opinions as teenagers

As for the younger members and children, the 50-ish leadership tends to think that their own musical tastes are something the young members couldn’t possibly fail to share, or at least have no business not sharing. It MUST be what the kids are demanding, whether or not anyone heard them demanding it. (“Regardless, the traditional stuff bored us as kids; ergo, anyone sensible must be bored by it; and so we’ll be blasted if the children will be overexposed to it, if exposed to it at all”).

Eventually, the traditionalist taint is limited to one or two token hymns thrown into the weekly “praise & worship” and accompanied by acoustic guitar. Finally, the last traces are quietly conked on the head with a shovel and buried in the churchyard (or would be if the “worship campus” had a churchyard).

It sounds like such a fair statement: “Where in the Bible does it say that the only type of religious music should be played with a piano or a organ?” But for such a liberal-minded question, it has a peculiar way of leading to the enforced gagging of such music.
 
This is my home Church when we visit my parents.

[Episcopal News Service] When attendance at a single weekly worship service grows tenfold in less than a decade, that’s wonderful – and challenging.
Christ Episcopal Church in Ponte Vedra Beach, Florida, just south of Jacksonville, met that challenge by raising $12 million to build a new parish center with a 380-seat space dedicated to contemporary worship. The services feature modern music performed by a guitar-keyboard-drums trio, casual clothing for clergy and servers, moveable chairs instead of pews and large video screens displaying images, lyrics and the Rite II liturgy.

When Christ Church first offered a contemporary service in the early 1990s, 20 to 30 people attended. Ten years later, the church’s fastest-growing service – and the one attracting the most new members – was the contemporary one, with 250 regular attendees crowded into a small, outdated parish hall.

The contemporary service’s popularity complemented the church’s six other weekend services held in its 650-seat traditional church building and smaller chapel. Founded in 1951 by fewer than 50 people, Christ Church now has approximately 5,900 members and the nation’s second highest average Sunday attendance – 1,500. Its range of worship styles respond to the variety of needs among its members.

The traditional church building, constructed when the congregation was founded, shares a 6 ½ acre campus with the contemporary worship center.

“People come to the Episcopal Church from different traditions,” explained the Rev. Richard Westbury Jr., rector of Christ Church. In the contemporary service, “we are able to use the traditional Episcopal liturgy form and communicate it in new and exciting ways, employing different styles of music and using images.”

For these worshippers, the entire congregation and the many community groups that use the church’s facilities, a master planning committee came up with a vision: tear down the old parish hall and build a larger, two-story parish center with a fellowship hall on the first floor, a contemporary worship space upstairs and a two-level deck out back to satisfy county requirements for parking spaces.

Planning was followed by a capital campaign and a year of construction. The new center opened this fall – on time and on budget. The contemporary worship space was designed by a committee of church members and clergy who visited similar spaces used by other denominations for inspiration.

The space features a modern audio and video system, moveable walls, flexible seating and a raised platform. In addition to Sunday services, the space also hosts a new, monthly youth-led service and special events, including plays, concerts and dances.

“We’re part of what’s going on now,” said guitarist John Dickens, a member of the youth band that plays for the contemporary service, “rather than being in the next room.” Previously, because of limited space, the band had been in an adjacent room.

“It’s more relaxed, and you get to do things more freely,” said Cameron Davis, a high school student who attends the service. Another student, Emily Lewis, added that “the contemporary aspect makes it more inviting, and all my friends are here.”

Despite the service’s informal style, contemporary worship “never had the dignity it has now” in its newly consecrated space, said the Rev. Robert Morris, associate rector of Christ Church. “It’s easier to find the holiness.”

In addition, new ways of extending Episcopal traditions into a more modern environment can be explored. “The worship can be contextually appropriate,” said Episcopal Church Presiding Bishop Katharine Jefferts Schori, who led the dedication service for the new parish center on October 29. “You can design the space differently for a baptism or a funeral,” she noted. “Perhaps the Easter Vigil starts with a fire in the middle of the room.”

For Bishop Samuel Johnson Howard, of the Diocese of Florida, Christ Church’s variety of services and music is “the mark of a very mature church.” He called the new parish center “a model for the way a church campus can be built” and expects “to see people come from many places to see how this has been done.”

episcopalchurch.org/81803_102967_ENG_HTM.htm
 
In my experience, this is an unstable state of affairs that tends not to last. The “traditional worship service” becomes effectively ghettoized, and is the first thing to go if cuts are necessary.
If the Church is growing, bringing people to Christ…things don’t get cut.

I mentioned in another post on CAF about a local Methodist Church that at the beginning of the school year they just added another Contempory Service because the other Service was packed! I think that it is fantastic that these Services are packed with people eager to know more about Christ.

God Bless!
 
This is a big issue that many Churches are dealing with today. I honestly like the music that is played at the Catholic Church during the kid’s school Mass. I believe that our children also like it better then the hymns that are sung at our Episcopal Church on Sundays. Honestly, how many of you have children that enjoy going to the symphony orchestra every week.
I think you meant that as a rhetorical question; I’ll take it as an actual one. My guess is, more than you might suspect. I’m also guessing that most children haven’t been exposed to enough symphonic music to know whether they’d prefer it to other kinds of music or not.
I will share that I find my eyes glazing over often! A couple of weeks ago, our EYC attended a fund raiser at our local Catholic Church for their Young Adults program. It was WONDERFUL! It was a Praise and Worship band that was Catholic. Our kids left the Catholic Church wondering why we don’t have that kind of music at our Church.
It’s interesting how that mirrors some of my experiences. In my public-school chorus, I heard a piece of classical church music for the first time, and my friends & I wondered why we never had any music like that at our parents’ Pentecostal church! Of course, in the eyes of youth-minister types, you’re describing excited, faith-filled young people whose needs need meeting, and I’m describing some kind of noxious Pharisees in embryo.
By the end of the concert, if you did not feel the presence of God you must of been dead! At the sold out concert–all ages were standing and praising God together. It was neat to see the older straight arrow men with their hands uplifted to God by the end of the concert–Praise God!

God Bless!
And God bless you as well. Nonetheless, if a Haydn Mass were to set your eyes “glazing over often” as you describe above, I certainly wouldn’t say you must be dead! I’d probably just say you didn’t care for that kind of music. But I’ve gotten extremely used to fans of contemporary church music accusing anyone who doesn’t share their preferences of being spiritually dead, insensitive, or cold-hearted, Pharasaical, what have you. I’ve met a few fans of older church music who make impertinent assumptions about the spiritual state of the contemporary-music church crowd, but the assumptions of the latter about the former are all-pervasive in my experience.
 
If the Church is growing, bringing people to Christ…things don’t get cut.

I mentioned in another post on CAF about a local Methodist Church that at the beginning of the school year they just added another Contempory Service because the other Service was packed! I think that it is fantastic that these Services are packed with people eager to know more about Christ.

God Bless!
Hear hear!

Personally I think that most traditionalist may believe but just stop short of saying the Contemporary services are not seen by God. Most stop a bit further away when dealing with another culture. Which I read as those indigenous natives are not as good as us proper gentlemen. They know that they will face racism charges if they do. So X, drum, music, etc is fine for Africans:extrahappy: but should a European try it:eek:
 
If the Church is growing, bringing people to Christ…things don’t get cut.

I mentioned in another post on CAF about a local Methodist Church that at the beginning of the school year they just added another Contempory Service because the other Service was packed! I think that it is fantastic that these Services are packed with people eager to know more about Christ.

God Bless!
It’s a shame Jesus didn’t have the benefit of that Methodist church’s advice. When one thinks about all the people He weirded out, alienated, and caused to scurry away in droves, one wishes He’d been a lot more careful about growing His following and bringing people to Him.
 
Hear hear!

Personally I think that most traditionalist may believe but just stop short of saying the Contemporary services are not seen by God. Most stop a bit further away when dealing with another culture. Which I read as those indigenous natives are not as good as us proper gentlemen. They know that they will face racism charges if they do. So X, drum, music, etc is fine for Africans:extrahappy: but should a European try it:eek:
Maybe you are speaking about a different group of “traditionalists”, but none of the traditionalists that I know personally think anything along the lines of what you just described. Which group of “traditionalists” are you referring to?
 
I think you meant that as a rhetorical question; I’ll take it as an actual one. My guess is, more than you might suspect. I’m also guessing that most children haven’t been exposed to enough symphonic music to know whether they’d prefer it to other kinds of music or not.

It’s interesting how that mirrors some of my experiences. In my public-school chorus, I heard a piece of classical church music for the first time, and my friends & I wondered why we never had any music like that at our parents’ Pentecostal church! Of course, in the eyes of youth-minister types, you’re describing excited, faith-filled young people whose needs need meeting, and I’m describing some kind of noxious Pharisees in embryo.

And God bless you as well. Nonetheless, if a Haydn Mass were to set your eyes “glazing over often” as you describe above, I certainly wouldn’t say you must be dead! I’d probably just say you didn’t care for that kind of music. But I’ve gotten extremely used to fans of contemporary church music accusing anyone who doesn’t share their preferences of being spiritually dead, insensitive, or cold-hearted, Pharasaical, what have you. I’ve met a few fans of older church music who make impertinent assumptions about the spiritual state of the contemporary-music church crowd, but the assumptions of the latter about the former are all-pervasive in my experience.
I probably did not make myself clear, I am sorry. My husband would rather be at a Taize Service or a Gregorian chant Mass or using the Hymnal with the oldies but goodies singing all 4 verses while I would rather be at a Contempory Service. I think what we need to remember is that a “one size fits all” is not always the truth especially when it comes to how we come to Jesus and give Him praise.

God Bless!
 
Hear hear!

Personally I think that most traditionalist may believe but just stop short of saying the Contemporary services are not seen by God. Most stop a bit further away when dealing with another culture. Which I read as those indigenous natives are not as good as us proper gentlemen. They know that they will face racism charges if they do. So X, drum, music, etc is fine for Africans:extrahappy: but should a European try it:eek:
I wasn’t aware that the contemporary services of American suburbia were meant as an expression of indigenous African culture. Silly me, to have misidentified them as an outgrowth of American pop culture; I really should have asked myself which was likelier, that or African tradition. I just feel silly now. (In my defense, though, those are some mighty well-disguised Africans.)

Still, whether they owe more to ‘80s synthesizer tunes or Kikuyu tribalism, I wouldn’t presume to guess God’s opinion of such services, or how its practitioners stand with Him. I do wish that people who don’t care for them could escape such presumptions, or their bearers’ projections.
 
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